Autopsy Hawks vs Swans

[WideOpenRoad]

Just re-watching now, eerily similar to 2012 GF. We dominated everything but the scoreboard and tackle count.

 

[Off The Couch]

Clearly wasn't our best 22 was it?

As close as you could possibly get

 

[bungholes_premiers]

If 1975, and a 10 year footy career of my own, counts as this year, then yes!

Goddammit why didn't u say so! Can i have your autograph !

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

If you think there's nothing racist about the booing of Goodes, a politically outspoken Aboriginal man, then you're f***ing delusional. He's done some dirty stuff on field at times but name me a 300 game player that hasn't? He gets special treatment because he speaks his mind, not because he goes in knees first. I love this club but this s**t is shameful and has to stop.

So we're allowed to detest our Prime Minister because he's a tosser, but not Goodes? You are making an assumption that people are booing Goodes because he's aboriginal ... that in itself is racist, don't you think? Explain why they don't boo other aboriginal players.

Goodes is an arrogant tosser who slides into packs and causes injuries, and picks on 13 year old girls. THAT'S why I don't like him .. but if it's easier for you to take the racist point of view, then you have a lot to learn.

Funny really, some of my very favourite players happen to be aboriginal. Perhaps I should start booing them to fit in with your stereotype? Maybe I should stop watching the Hawks because we have players such as Rioli, Burgoyne, Hill or Gibson?

You know, I was once labelled racist by an idiot because I considered Muralitharan bowled with an illegal action. What a horrible person I am, so racist ... and yet my favourite all time cricketer is Garfield Sobers. Best modern batsman I've seen ... Brian Lara. Favourite spin bowler .. Bishen Bedi from India. Best left arm fast bowler I've seen .... Wasim Akram. Loved watching the powerful West Indians with Richards, Holding, Roberts, etc. The list goes on .... but apparently I am racist because I thought a bowler, irrespective of the colour of his skin, bowled with a dubious action.

I don't like Goodes, and sorry to tell you, it has nothing to do with the colour of his skin. I don't like Selwood or Ballantyne either.

I love the way people draw out the racist card just to solve an argument. Pathetic really.

This attack from the media is just another pathetic attempt to stick it to the Hawks. We are their flavour of the month. Every other club's supporters boo Goodes as well, why only highlight it when the Hawks fans do it?

 

[Taskmaster]

Then everyone should boo hodge and Lewis, two of the dirtiest players in the game.

They are not whining little fairies like that low life scum Goodes! You just keep supporting a side that only exists because of the AFL. Uneducted moron!

 

[Davo23]

If 1975, and a 10 year footy career of my own, counts as this year, then yes!

Rod Lester-Smith?
What the hell were you doing in the 1984 Grand Final?

You didn't know you had to play on your opponent, you bastard?

 

[Off The Couch]

A game that could have gone either way. Unlike many of your posters, I don't think the umpires had much influence. They gave an astoundingly small number of free kicks given what was happening on the field, but to my eye gave Hawthorn a better run with the few they gave.
Those who have criticized Hodge here have a point, but they were happy enough to take the benefits of his thug acts over the years when they won games for you. The critics of Mitchell have less excuse. I understand the attacks on Suckling, but don't agree with them. A team needs more than inside monsters.
Your accuracy in front of goal is no worse than everybody else's. You have become accustomed to Bruest kicking everything instead of just most. These things even out over time.
Welcome back to the field, where you have to worry about your results every week, rather than expecting to win. Footy is a great leveller.

You are quite correct - hawk supporters don't like losing - it's not in our culture
It is amusing though the number of opposition supporters enjoying it

 

[Adebisi]

I think our forward line function as others have discussed is a real issue. The entries seem to be a kick and hope, or so systematically slow that we never get the easy goals lead mark goal style anymore. Our diagonal kick, mark style also seems very predictable to the oppo. I think tactically a few things need tweaking.

Breust has been playing arrogantly all season, haven't been impressed at all. The fend off while jogging is way too casual now.
People will laugh but I think missing buddy is felt more now, especially for Roughead.
And lastly I am a little concerned with the coaching. Not in an overall sense at all, but coaching out bad habits with players. Too often I see the same mistakes or actions that need to be coached out of players immediately, and seem to not be addressed.

 

[Max Force]

As close as you could possibly get

Close maybe but not HODGE.

 

[Taskmaster]

So we're allowed to detest our Prime Minister because he's a tosser, but not Goodes? You are making an assumption that people are booing Goodes because he's aboriginal ... that in itself is racist, don't you think? Explain why they don't boo other aboriginal players.

Goodes is an arrogant tosser who slides into packs and causes injuries, and picks on 13 year old girls. THAT'S why I don't like him .. but if it's easier for you to take the racist point of view, then you have a lot to learn.

Funny really, some of my very favourite players happen to be aboriginal. Perhaps I should start booing them to fit in with your stereotype? Maybe I should stop watching the Hawks because we have players such as Rioli, Burgoyne, Hill or Gibson?

You know, I was once labelled racist by an idiot because I considered Muralitharan bowled with an illegal action. What a horrible person I am, so racist ... and yet my favourite all time cricketer is Garfield Sobers. Best modern batsman I've seen ... Brian Lara. Favourite spin bowler .. Bishen Bedi from India. Best left arm fast bowler I've seen .... Wasim Akram. Loved watching the powerful West Indians with Richards, Holding, Roberts, etc. The list goes on .... but apparently I am racist because I thought a bowler, irrespective of the colour of his skin, bowled with a dubious action.

I don't like Goodes, and sorry to tell you, it has nothing to do with the colour of his skin. I don't like Selwood or Ballantyne either.

I love the way people draw out the racist card just to solve an argument. Pathetic really.

This attack from the media is just another pathetic attempt to stick it to the Hawks. We are their flavour of the month. Every other club's supporters boo Goodes as well, why only highlight it when the Hawks fans do it?

If me booing the low life is considered racist, then I'm a complete racist. Poor f..ken Goodes.

 

[Off The Couch]

Close maybe but not HODGE.

God help us if he retires at the end of season then

 

[Xtreme]

they just said the same on 3AW. Commentators are completely clueless as to why Goodes is being booed.

Couldn't be because he is an over rated umpires pet that plays too rough.
I'll keep booing him, try and stop me!

It's not a racist point of view, I boo Chris Judd for the same reason (over rated umpires pet, plays dirty with eye gouges and chicken wings).

 

[MadDawg]

God help us if he retires at the end of season then

God is in no position to help us at the moment, hamstring injury and out another 2 weeks apparently.

 

[Lebbo73]

If you think there's nothing racist about the booing of Goodes, a politically outspoken Aboriginal man, then you're f***ing delusional. He's done some dirty stuff on field at times but name me a 300 game player that hasn't? He gets special treatment because he speaks his mind, not because he goes in knees first. I love this club but this s**t is shameful and has to stop.

Please tell us how the world is against Adam Goodes because he is aboriginal?

 

[Max Force]

God help us if he retires at the end of season then

Good luck to him if he does, a 4 times premiership player.

 

[Roddy]

Rod Lester-Smith?
What the hell were you doing in the 1984 Grand Final?

You didn't know you had to play on your opponent, you bastard?

Got me pegged mate!

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

I'm bitterly disappointed we lost, but we lost that game off of poor kicking. Kick 1 easy goal we missed when we had the momentum and the result of this match would have been much different. In that last quarter, if Gunston kicks the goal then momentum shifts our way and crushes Sydney. If Breust kicks it from 30 out with around 1.50 left we probably would have won. Regardless of poor goal kicking, and some occasional misjudgments, the team was fairly solid. Here are the positives and negatives:

Positives

1. Chip Frawley: Keeping Franklin goalless was really off the cards, but in only his 3rd game for the Hawks (I don't count the two minutes against Essendon) Frawley was able to shut off Franklin's run, position himself behind the ball, tackle hard and spoil Franklin's leads. He was a bit iffy with disposal, and his miscue of the punch that led to a Sydney goal was frustrating, but he certainly proved himself as a capable defender and one that will fit in nicely when working with a fit Lake and a hungry Gibbo.

2. Ceglar and the midfield: My God, that delivery to Mitchell and Langford was superb. When Hale and Ceglar shared the ruck duties, whenever Ceglar was there he always seemed to get the better of Mike Pyke and thanks to his switches with Hale was able to become a link player. I realise we had to sub off Hale due to fitness problems, but Ceglar looks like a much better player when he can swap with Hale. Was good solo in the last quarter, but again didn't have that freshness. Still, really good to see that we can get some quality taps.

You have to give props to the midfield though. First quarter aside, pretty much everyone did their roles and got so many forward 50 entries it was mind boggling. Mitchell gets better with time; Lewis wasn't superb but will be better for the experience; Langford had some great moments; Shiels rode the bumps hard and took Jack out of the game; Hilly and Smithy (apart from a few s**t kicks) kept running hard and generally used the ball well; Burgoyne was (almost) a match winner with his brief stint; Rioli played like a man possessed and sub Billy Hurting put his body on the line and laid some great tackles, proving that he's a versatile player. Our midfield was good, they just need to learn how to lower their eyes and not bomb it into the forward line without looking. The fact that we still have Hodgey to come back is a scary thought.

3. Shoenmakers takes his chances: He doesn't seem to miss often, especially on the set shots. He didn't take any contested marks today, but competed well and always brought the ball to ground. Kicked two goals, which is two more than Roughead who really seems to be struggling this year. Also laid good tackles and applied pressure on the ball carrier. What he did do was prove that he can kick goals in big games, and can kick truly. I think he should keep his spot in the side.

4. Inside 50 entries: While we only kicked 9.15, we bombarded the Swan's forward line and if Roughead, Gunston and Bruest (our three main avenues to goal) kicked straight and capitalised on their opportunities we would have easily won the game. 54 inside 50's is an monumental amount, and had our forward line capitalised it would have been a reasonably easy game. Unfortunately, no matter how many opportunities you get you need to take them, and while Sydney took their chances at 11.7 we didn't. The fact that we can have so many inside 50's and come only 4 points behind a Premiership contender with three out of three forwards missing easy, gettable shots proves that we're still up there with the best. We just need to get those damn goals.

Negatives

1. Kicking in pressure moments: I understand completely that in pressure moments kicking tends to go a little awry, but in the last quarter we lost the game by bad kicking in both the set shots and on the run. Matthew Suckling intercepts a kick, and instead of putting it inside our forward 50 gives it straight back to the Swans player; Issac Smith miscues a kick and causes it to dribble inside 50 with about a minute to go that could have led to a goal; Gunston and Bruest miss easy set-shots that would put the Swans away. I don't understand if it's a mindset, and I can understand occasional losses due to this (as frustrating as they are). But the loss of 4 points begins to add up, and when you lose to Port Adelaide and Sydney (arguably GWS) because of errant kicking and bad disposals in pressure conditions you suddenly find yourself 4-4, most likely 8th on the ladder instead of 4th and chasing a Fremantle for the Minor Premiership 4 wins ahead.

2. Matthew Suckling: "Look at Vandohawk he vilifies Suckling when he doesn't do anything wrong; Suckling wasn't that bad and yet you single him out." You see, Suckling had 11 disposals this game: keep in mind that kick ins also count as disposals, meaning he got around 7 possessions by his own merit. To put this into perspective, Billy Hartung had 9 in one quarter of football against an established Swans midfield. Now, he had about two good kicks: one lace out to Rioli and another from the kick-in. But then he has a kick that costs us a goal; but then he kicks it from the kick-in and doesn't come remotely close to a Hawthorn player; now he gets caught man on man and McVeigh gets a pathetically easy goal. In the heat of the moment, he really withered and even when the heat wasn't on the only time he beat Rohan was when Rohan slipped (three contests that Suckling beats Rohan, three contests where Rohan slips). He did have some good efforts, hell everyone did, but his performance wasn't AFL standard. He played as though his mind was somewhere else (probably the supposed 500,000 he's been offered), and with players like Duryea, Anderson, Litherland, Woodward and even Howe knocking on the door I don't think he warrants a selection for next week: no contest if you add Hodge into the equation.

3. First Quarter Drought: It's come to bite us in the ass three games now against Essendon, Port Adelaide and Sydney. Playing the 'catch up' game is most physically and mentally tiring, and opens the strategy of the spare man in the backline to stem the forward flow we get. If we hadn't been kept goalless during that first quarter, we would have won this game. This is an area of our game that needs to be sorted out: a mindset that needs to be eradicated, because it is much easier to get a lead early then play on that lead with momentum shifts rather than constantly chase the lead. I dare say we'll really bite the dust against Fremantle if we let them get out of the blocks early.

4: Where's Roughead? Kicking 4 goals against Melbourne? Good to see. 7 goals against the Bulldogs? Go Roughy! 0 goals against Port Adelaide and Sydney? Uh Roughy...we kinda need you for the big games. Effectively, we need Roughead to do the opposite of what he's doing now: kick goals in the big games and stay quiet in the small games. And while it's great he's getting possessions in the midfield, I think we should only use him in the midfield when we're really in a pinch. Against Sydney our midfield was working pretty well, so why throw Roughead into the midfield where he gets tired and worn out? Roughead in the midfield should be an option, it shouldn't become constant. I'd much rather Roughy kick 3 goals from 10 possessions then 0 goals from 21. We need you Roughy: you have your support from Gunston, Hale/Ceglar and now Shoenmakers. If we want to win these games, we need our big key forwards to fire.

Overall, these little losses are annoying me (and add up to 12-arguably 16-lost points) but apart from missing so many easy shots, and having bad disposal in the last 10 minutes, I can't really think of too many negatives. Finish this horrible first quarter drought, put on the kicking boots, and we have a Premiership team that works well together with moments of brilliance that on their day can beat any opponents. Unfortunately for us, the days are coming against smaller opponents and not genuine Premiership contenders. If Roughead fires and one of either Gunston or Bruest kicks straight, the sheer weight on Inside 50's we get should crush any opposition. Still, easier said then done: but we as supporters shouldn't be too dismayed, as good signs were there. Signs that when we have Hodgey calling the shots there won't be any of this cute kicking bullshit.

A game that could have gone either way. Unlike many of your posters, I don't think the umpires had much influence. They gave an astoundingly small number of free kicks given what was happening on the field, but to my eye gave Hawthorn a better run with the few they gave.
Those who have criticized Hodge here have a point, but they were happy enough to take the benefits of his thug acts over the years when they won games for you. The critics of Mitchell have less excuse. I understand the attacks on Suckling, but don't agree with them. A team needs more than inside monsters.
Your accuracy in front of goal is no worse than everybody else's. You have become accustomed to Bruest kicking everything instead of just most. These things even out over time.
Welcome back to the field, where you have to worry about your results every week, rather than expecting to win. Footy is a great leveller.

Every team kicks 9.15 yeah? Dumb post

 

[Procrastinator35]

So we're allowed to detest our Prime Minister because he's a tosser, but not Goodes? You are making an assumption that people are booing Goodes because he's aboriginal ... that in itself is racist, don't you think? Explain why they don't boo other aboriginal players.

Goodes is an arrogant tosser who slides into packs and causes injuries, and picks on 13 year old girls. THAT'S why I don't like him .. but if it's easier for you to take the racist point of view, then you have a lot to learn.

Funny really, some of my very favourite players happen to be aboriginal. Perhaps I should start booing them to fit in with your stereotype? Maybe I should stop watching the Hawks because we have players such as Rioli, Burgoyne, Hill or Gibson?

You know, I was once labelled racist by an idiot because I considered Muralitharan bowled with an illegal action. What a horrible person I am, so racist ... and yet my favourite all time cricketer is Garfield Sobers. Best modern batsman I've seen ... Brian Lara. Favourite spin bowler .. Bishen Bedi from India. Best left arm fast bowler I've seen .... Wasim Akram. Loved watching the powerful West Indians with Richards, Holding, Roberts, etc. The list goes on .... but apparently I am racist because I thought a bowler, irrespective of the colour of his skin, bowled with a dubious action.

I don't like Goodes, and sorry to tell you, it has nothing to do with the colour of his skin. I don't like Selwood or Ballantyne either.

I love the way people draw out the racist card just to solve an argument. Pathetic really.

This attack from the media is just another pathetic attempt to stick it to the Hawks. We are their flavour of the month. Every other club's supporters boo Goodes as well, why only highlight it when the Hawks fans do it?

Seems like WideOpenRoad just took a WideOpenReaming....

 

[Procrastinator35]

Every team kicks 9.15 yeah? Dumb post

What's even dumber still, is flogs like you who side with the enemy on a blatant troll post, to stick the knife into their own to score brownie points.

Your Big Footy I.Q leaves alot to be desired.

 

[driftyhunter]

Perhaps I find the booing of those players unsavoury too.

Righto
So it's polite golf claps only now is it...ugh..may as well just stay at home

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Even though the Hawks belted the Demons by 100+ points the previous week, I thought the game illustrated the problems Hawthorn is currently experiencing with the dysfunctional forward line. Those problems were writ large last night. The killer statistic is 28 inside 50 entries in quarters one and four for a return of one goal.

Hawthorn was efficient in its forward line last year, but this year, by combination of a change in the forward structure and opponents working out the strategy, Hawthorn cannot find an efficient way into the forward line and an efficient manner to score goals.

I haven't looked at the stats yet but I had the strong impression that, apart from the first 25 minutes of the game, Hawthorn dominated everywhere. Up until the last 10 minutes, Sydney had kicked three goals since quarter time as the Hawks tightened the screws. Frawley clearly had only the single instruction of stopping Judas, while Lake had Tippett well under control. Goodes managed to get the better of Stratton through the game but apart from the first quarter, he wasn't a real factor in the outcome of the game.

Ceglar dominated Pike in the ruck while Hale used his wiles to position himself well when thrown into the ruck so that once Hawthorn had settled, it dominated the centre and stoppage clearances.

I take the view that Hawthorn's chances of winning a third premiership are just about shot. Emma Quayle tweeted earlier in the week that no team has ever won a premiership after starting the season 4-4. Of course, records are made to be broken, but it will take a herculean effort from here to give the club the best chance of making history. The problem, however, is that I'm sure that Clarkson and the coaching staff would like to manage the miles in the legs of the 30+ brigade. The way the season is turning out, that's not going to be possible (at least while top four is within reach).

There are certainly positives to be taken from the game. Frawley, Lake and Gibson all played very well and it wasn't their fault that Hawthorn lost (though I'm sure that Frawley would love to have those seconds back when he flubbed an opportunity to rush a behind and Sydney kicked a goal against the tide).

Ceglar dominated in the ruck and seemed to direct his tap-outs well in the advantage of his midfielders. Cyril played like a man possessed and did his utmost to get Hawthorn to fall over the line (notwithstanding his fumble at a critical juncture). Schoenmakers presented and did a job with a few goals.

I questioned the selection of Suckling over Duryea and I take the view that the coaches might have their time over again with selection. Suckling's kicking is not elite. His pass to Cyril to set up a goal in the third quarter was an elite kick but Suckling makes too many mistakes with his kicking to describe him as an elite kick. I take the view that the blowtorch needs to be applied to him. McVeigh easily outmanoeuvred him in the goalsquare late in the fourth quarter and it was not a good look for Suckling to be so easily beaten. As for his shocking kick to give the ball straight back to the Swans after he had floated across to take an intercept mark, the less should be said.

But Suckling shouldn't be marked out as the primary or even a main reason for the loss. Stratton must have left his wet weather boots at home, despite the fact that it was clear that with the low temperatures and clear skies, the ground would become dewy quite quickly. He slipped over at least three times last night at critical points. Further, he chose to punch the ball away when he had enough time and space to take a mark. His 100th game was not one for the memory books.

Apart from his burst at the end of the game to set up a scoring opportunity for Breust, Burgoyne I thought was reasonably quiet. I think that this was an overlooked consequence of omitting Duryea, as it meant that Burgoyne was required to be more of a defender than other times, which curtailed his creativity with the ball moving forward.

In the grand final last year, Roughead led by example. He was fierce at the ball and at the man (legally) and he cleared space for his fellow teammates. Last night, he was conspicuous by how badly his form has fallen away since the 2014 grand final. His shot at goal early in the first quarter never looked like being accurate, as he consistently refuses to kick through the ball after a lazy three-step run-up. I'm sure that Roughead was trying his darnedest to lift the team, but his continuing habit of going up one handed for marks drives me insane. Richards managed to grapple with Roughead reasonably well to put Roughead off his game, and Roughead isn't looked after by the umpires when the defenders do that, but I take the view that he could do more.

Gunston was up and down the ground all night but I wonder if that effort he expends in creating an option for the defenders to target means that he's too fatigued to kick for goal. Last night, he was more like the 2012 grand final Gunston than the 2014 grand final Gunston.

Mitchell had plenty of the ball but he's no longer the Mitchell of 2012-2014. He's good for at least one or two turnovers per game now, and given his range, he can turn the ball over in poor situations. Further, I take the view that his decision-making declined this season. He has suddenly developed a habit of putting his teammates under pressure while looking for a cute pass. He remains our best inside midfielder (by some margin) but he is declining and the decline is becoming evident.

I posted last night that I thought Clarkson might have erred in naming Hartung as the substitute. Clearly while Hale is developing match fitness, the idea is to nurse him through three quarters and then sub him out for a fit runner, but I think that after his game last week, Hartung could have built his confidence by hard running and line breaking from the start of the game. Hill made some uncharacteristic errors with the ball while Smith seemed to fade out of the game the more it wore on. However, I think having the three wingers on the ground from the start would have thrown a spanner in the plans of Longmire.

Liam Shiels continues to be unappreciated outside the Hawks but he wore some hits last night while doing his best to create clearances and score chains for the club. Langford also tried his hardest but his lack of experience tells against him, I feel, because he hesitates at critical times when he needs to be instinctive and to take the first option.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

rdhopkins2 - I make it the fourth time Judas has been hold scoreless in his career. The first time was, as you say, his debut against the Swans in round 1, 2005. The second time he was held scoreless was round 6, 2005, when Hawthorn lost to Carlton (the Blues trailed by 18 points at three quarter time but overran the Hawks six goals to two in the last quarter to win by a kick).

The third time was, of course, the infamous St Kilda 2009 game at Launceston when Dawson knocked out one of his teeth (it was also Franklin's 100th game).

 

[ScoobySnacks]

Your accuracy in front of goal is no worse than everybody else's. You have become accustomed to Bruest kicking everything instead of just most. These things even out over time.

You might be used it with hacks like Cloke as the focal point in your forward line, but it isn't acceptable

 

[QuietB]

What are the Hawks going to do about these games they losing despite dominating the inside 50's.

 

[spudmaster]

A game that could have gone either way. Unlike many of your posters, I don't think the umpires had much influence. They gave an astoundingly small number of free kicks given what was happening on the field, but to my eye gave Hawthorn a better run with the few they gave. Those who have criticized Hodge here have a point, but they were happy enough to take the benefits of his thug acts over the years when they won games for you. The critics of Mitchell have less excuse. I understand the attacks on Suckling, but don't agree with them. A team needs more than inside monsters. Your accuracy in front of goal is no worse than everybody else's. You have become accustomed to Bruest kicking everything instead of just most. These things even out over time. Welcome back to the field, where you have to worry about your results every week, rather than expecting to win. Footy is a great leveller.

Crosses the line in terms of respectful posting on opposition boards, no?