Play Nice Adam Goodes

[BORK]

Feel like now booing Goodes has potential to become a meme. Opposition fans may even boo him out of adulation like the "you suck" chants Kurt Angle used to get.

 

[YES! YES! YES!]

Not in human rights it ain't. Race isn't internationally recognized anymore as it was mainly based off objective criteria. Mainly that of us putting our labels on stuff

Contemporay concepts of people's are based off self-identification. It largely includes cultural continuity, traditional lands, self concept, language and spirituality.

Again, it's not about us anymore and for good reason

If I'm interpreting you right, I'm definitely not denying you're wrong about the current stance in society. Racism is dying which is great.

However, it's more just my ideologies where interpersonal-identification should be based on an individual's merits rather than their background. That's not just restricted to Indigenous backgrounds, but all demographics.

I'm not sure what you mean by it shouldn't be about us anymore, lol.

 

[Back One Out]

Well, you'd assume if they're Sydney fans, they're not going to hate him for "sniping" or "diving", to the level that they will openly boo him, are they?

Oh, right… I don't know if they were Sydney fans, Carton fans, neutrals, or a mixture of all three. It was pretty loud sustained booing on a few occasions, mixed with a lot of cheering. Hard to know what effect the Channel 7 microphone placements have , or whether a technician fiddled with the sound levels

You can't really generalise about crowds anyway. Everyone has their own reason for doing what they do.

 

[TassieSaint]

on a weekend when people are meant to be coming together, he makes a stupid, selfish gesture which does nothing but separate people and push people apart.

Can only imagine that someone like Michael Long would be pretty embarrassed about this

We wouldn't even be having this discussion/debate if he'd just play the bloody game

Is the sentiment legitimate? Dead set. And let me preface this by saying I do think Goodes is a bit of a flog of a bloke.

But he decides to do a simple indigenous themed celebration as an indigenous man in indigenous rounud and people are up in arms about it? What at all about his celebration was stupid or selfish? What makes it any different from any other goal celebration from the chest thump to the finger swirl and so on?

The fact that there is any reaction at all to this genuinely concerns me. The blokes proud of his heritage, it's indigenous round, it was a completely benign celebration. Nothing to see here move along.

 

[TheFreshBanana]

Is the sentiment legitimate? Dead set. And let me preface this by saying I do think Goodes is a bit of a flog of a bloke.

But he decides to do a simple indigenous themed celebration as an indigenous man in indigenous rounud and people are up in arms about it? What at all about his celebration was stupid or selfish? What makes it any different from any other goal celebration from the chest thump to the finger swirl and so on?

The fact that there is any reaction at all to this genuinely concerns me. The blokes proud of his heritage, it's indigenous round, it was a completely benign celebration. Nothing to see here move along.

The fact that he ran like 20 metres to do it in front of the Carlton crowd?

 

[james Dean]

Absolutely ridiculous that people are belittling him for celebrating a goal.. It was a celebration to show his pride in his heritage, during a game in a round which celebrates his people.

Did people kick up a s**t storm when Tadgh Kennelly did a jig when he got his premiership medal? Or when Mike Pyke walked around the 'G with a Canadian flag?

 

[TassieSaint]

The fact that he ran like 20 metres to do it in front of the Carlton crowd?

So what? You've never seen a player taunt opposition supporters? fmd. That is literally a weekly occurrence.

I just read a comment, which I can only assume was serious, calling this 'reverse racism'. I literally cannot even. Anyone who has a problem with a f*king goal celebration have a long hard look at yourselves and consider why this would make you uncomfortable. This entire thread is a disgrace.

 

[ScrewInStuds]

So what? You've never seen a player taunt opposition supporters? fmd. That is literally a weekly occurrence.

I just read a comment, which I can only assume was serious, calling this 'reverse racism'. I literally cannot even. Anyone who has a problem with a f*king goal celebration have a long hard look at yourselves and consider why this would make you uncomfortable. This entire thread is a disgrace.

With that said, the media were just slavering to make this into a big deal all game and post game - they have to take some responsibility. Dennis Cometti even said that "Goodes shouldn't have done that" straight after the celebration, immediately setting the agenda. Fairly inappropriate I thought.

 

[Jobe Watson]

Absolutely ridiculous that people are belittling him for celebrating a goal.. It was a celebration to show his pride in his heritage, during a game in a round which celebrates his people.

Did people kick up a s**t storm when Tadgh Kennelly did a jig when he got his premiership medal? Or when Mike Pyke walked around the 'G with a Canadian flag?

Did Tadgh Kennelly deliberately run to a section of the crowd wearing different colours than him to do his jig? Did Pyke wave his flag in the face of people with Australian flags?

People don't have any issues with Goodes deciding to do a dance celebrating his heritage, and anyone who thinks that is the issue here is missing the point. People don't like how he did it: making a deliberate effort to run to a group of innocent spectators wearing different colours to him before performing an intimidating war dance directed at them.

People such as myself also don't believe that this was simply a celebration of his heritage, but more an "up yours, I'm proud to be Aboriginal" anti-persecution response to those supposedly "racist" booers last week - even though the booing had nothing whatsoever to do with race - and that Goodes is using this to draw further attention to the race debate and (inadvertently or otherwise) drive the wedge that much deeper.

 

[Dustin Credible]

But he decides to do a simple indigenous themed celebration as an indigenous man in indigenous rounud and people are up in arms about it? What at all about his celebration was stupid or selfish? What makes it any different from any other goal celebration from the chest thump to the finger swirl and so on?

The fact that there is any reaction at all to this genuinely concerns me. The blokes proud of his heritage, it's indigenous round, it was a completely benign celebration. Nothing to see here move along.

Agree.. can't really see what all the fuss is about.

Indigenous man celebrates scoring goal in round of football dedicated to celebrating the contributions of the indigenous people to the sport with indigenous dance.

Much rather this than say Dusty Martins 'handcuff' goal celebration.

 

[Stopher]

I just think using what could be interpreted as antagonistic actions (the gestures towards the girl, the dance last night) and trying to marry it to a concept such as Reconciliation, ie bringing people together, a bit of a strange way to go about it.

Please note I am referring to only the gestures towards the girl, not that he raised the issue itself, as he had every right to. I'm not sure what exactly he was trying to achieve with the dance though.

 

[Docker Alyssa]

Pretty sure we just witnessed a well thought out political statement rather than a reaction to to some opposition fans booing him there. Its no coincidence that this is Indigenous round. I think Adam wants to be remembered with the likes of Nicky Winmar for an iconic aboriginal statement more than anything else.

I agree. Last week in the presser was telling when he goes "It's disappointing that this is still happening", such an ambiguous assessment of his booing. Later in that article the talk was about indigenous players of the past and their contributions to their heritage AND racial stances. The statement by goodes and the following paragraphs is impossible not to link when you read the full article.

Did we see Goodes come out and clarify he was misrepresented and was talking about booing still happening? No, we didn't. Did he come out against booing players to justify his assertion that it's "disappointing this is still happening"? No, he didn't -- For all we know, and he had ample opportunity to give us his thoughts, he has no problem with booing of players. He takes issue with himself receiving booing though, because Skin colour?

I think he actively wants to be the iconic aboriginal of this millennium. While there is probably pressure and external pushing of his status as an indigenous role model, he seems the most interested in it and drives it.

He'll use a celebration week of his heritage to point fingers at one single bad apple, when by his own admission he didn't receive such slander since the schoolyard (90's). Imagine telling Nicky Winmar during his career he would only get racially slurred over the fence once. He'd probably feel pride in this country and how far it's come. He probably would never think to accuse it of still being guilty of harming his people because of one bad apple existing.

You don't see cops pointing to murder as a thing society is secretly rampant with when they arrest one serial killer -- its utter nonsense. Exposure of bad apples does not mean the tree is bad. Can we even hold to being a mature country if we cannot separate a bad apple from the tree it was in?

The truth is, we are past racial vilification in 2015 as an issue to tackle. The wheels were in motion over 50 years ago, the system itself was purged of it and good people have been tackling it on a social level for 25 years at least if not more. It's done, but Goodes is an advocate for keeping it as a "thing". He benefits from getting to talk about it. Polarising news is good news for him. He'll likely use it all to fuel his political path.

I'm not even saying that is bad exactly, and I don't personally advocate for or myself boo good players. But my view of his character as to it being justified is according to these thoughts. Coupled with more prominently as a footballer his on field history of whining and staging and dog acts, I can understand why 10,000 people who would boo any other player for any reason that arose decided to boo Adam.

He is not protected. To me he is merely a footballer in this context, and outside of it he is a human being. Nothing more, absolutely nothing less.

 

[Little Big John]

Thought Carlos, Smith and Norman were being divisive back in '68 too.

Especially the way Norman supported them.

 

[Back One Out]

Was Nicky Winmar "inviting hate" when he lifted his jumper and pointed to his skin?

Yes, but Winmar was reacting spontaneously to hundreds of spitting frothing feral Magpie fans hurling racist obscenities at him
What did Goodes do again? A premeditated "spear throwing" dance to people who booed him for being a flog.

Slight difference.

 

[Moggy]

I just think using what could be interpreted as antagonistic actions (the gestures towards the girl, the dance last night) and trying to marry it to a concept such as Reconciliation, ie bringing people together, a bit of a strange way to go about it.

Please note I am referring to only the gestures towards the girl, not that he raised the issue itself, as he had every right to. I'm not sure what exactly he was trying to achieve with the dance though.

I think the aggression in the dance was obvious and, at least sub-consciously, deliberate -and I am fine with that.

Why does it need to be all about reconciliation? (Not that you are saying that)

Australia's indigenous people have a fair number of legitimate beefs (to put it very mildly) with the state of things now and in the past. I can accept that sometimes these things boil over.

Do we only accept black men who show themselves as placid and non-threatening?

Personally, my immediate reaction was excitement/thrill followed by an uneasiness about how things would be interpreted and how the media would feed on it.

It is confronting and I think white folk generally feel like there is no need to revisit all the confronting aspects of the situation. Of course, it is not unusual to be happy with the status quo when you have all the advantages.

 

[Back One Out]

Thought Carlos, Smith and Norman were being divisive back in '68 too.
Especially the way Norman supported them.

The Australian Athletic chiefs thought so highly of that gesture they left him out of the squad for the '72 Munich Olympics, despite him being our no.1 200m runner. The two Americans were both suspended by US track officials.

Any chance of the AFL doing something like that?

 

[BEEG]

This bloke has lost the plot still chasing that Winmar moment

 

[YES! YES! YES!]

I agree. Last week in the presser was telling when he goes "It's disappointing that this is still happening", such an ambiguous assessment of his booing. Later in that article the talk was about indigenous players of the past and their contributions to their heritage AND racial stances. The statement by goodes and the following paragraphs is impossible not to link when you read the full article.

Did we see Goodes come out and clarify he was misrepresented and was talking about booing still happening? No, we didn't. Did he come out against booing players to justify his assertion that it's "disappointing this is still happening"? No, he didn't -- For all we know, and he had ample opportunity to give us his thoughts, he has no problem with booing of players. He takes issue with himself receiving booing though, because Skin colour?

I think he actively wants to be the iconic aboriginal of this millennium. While there is probably pressure and external pushing of his status as an indigenous role model, he seems the most interested in it and drives it.

He'll use a celebration week of his heritage to point fingers at one single bad apple, when by his own admission he didn't receive such slander since the schoolyard (90's). Imagine telling Nicky Winmar during his career he would only get racially slurred over the fence once. He'd probably feel pride in this country and how far it's come. He probably would never think to accuse it of still being guilty of harming his people because of one bad apple existing.

You don't see cops pointing to murder as a thing society is secretly rampant with when they arrest one serial killer -- its utter nonsense. Exposure of bad apples does not mean the tree is bad. Can we even hold to being a mature country if we cannot separate a bad apple from the tree it was in?

The truth is, we are past racial vilification in 2015 as an issue to tackle. The wheels were in motion over 50 years ago, the system itself was purged of it and good people have been tackling it on a social level for 25 years at least if not more. It's done, but Goodes is an advocate for keeping it as a "thing". He benefits from getting to talk about it. Polarising news is good news for him. He'll likely use it all to fuel his political path.

I'm not even saying that is bad exactly, and I don't personally advocate for or myself boo good players. But my view of his character as to it being justified is according to these thoughts. Coupled with more prominently as a footballer his on field history of whining and staging and dog acts, I can understand why 10,000 people who would boo any other player for any reason that arose decided to boo Adam.

He is not protected. To me he is merely a footballer in this context, and outside of it he is a human being. Nothing more, absolutely nothing less.

Great Post!

That was everything I tried to say in a nutshell!

Racial Villification isn't an issue in 2015's society, so why be an ambassador for it?

Adam Goodes should be acknowledged as one of the all time great footballers instead of an Indigenous person.

 

[PTizzle]

Racial Villification isn't an issue in 2015's society

...

.........................

 

[Stopher]

I think the aggression in the dance was obvious and, at least sub-consciously, deliberate -and I am fine with that.

Why does it need to be all about reconciliation? (Not that you are saying that)

Australia's indigenous people have a fair number of legitimate beefs (to put it very mildly) with the state of things now and in the past. I can accept that sometimes these things boil over.

Do we only accept black men who show themselves as placid and non-threatening?

Personally, my immediate reaction was excitement/thrill followed by an uneasiness about how things would be interpreted and how the media would feed on it.

It is confronting and I think white folk generally feel like there is no need to revisit all the confronting aspects of the situation. Of course, it is not unusual to be happy with the status quo when you have all the advantages.

I understand your point about indigenous people having a beef with wrongs of the past, and to address an issue it needs to be brought to light, so highlighting the racism issue when it rears its ugly headb is fine. But shouldn't the ultimate goal be about Reconciliation? One fears what they don't know or understand, so by educating them it removes the fear and helps develop a better understanding. I imagine that ndigenous Round is trying to be more about that than the negative side of this issue.

 

[Magma]

have absolutely no problems players giving it back to fans, if that is what this was. i thought it looked pretty cool. was mildly amused at eddie throwing around terms like 'confronting'. what on earth was confronting about that?

as others have said, it's an indigenous man celebrating a goal with an indigenous inspired celebration on indigenous round. i'm not his biggest fan but i really fail to see the problem.

 

[D-N-R]

This bloke must have been banned for life!!! What a dog act!!!

 

[The Passenger]

I'm not a huge fan of some Goodes' actions but to say racial vilification is not a thing in 2015 is..... well, just stupid.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Floggish behaviour from Goodes.

I genuinely don't see the need for the Haka in world sport, so having a lone player break out into his own version mid-game doesn't sit well with me.

It's an aggressive, threatening and inciteful action, by design. Just like the Haka.

Players are fined if they aggressively gesture at a member of the crowd, they are penalized if they talk or act demonstratively towards an umpire, but now you can commit a war cry while charging towards a group of opposition supporters and it's ok?

I don't think we need it in sport at all.

The sad part is, indigenous round should be about celebration and building relationships, yet instead it's going to be one over the top action that has ultimately been seen as another "look at me, I've got something important to say" gesture from a guy who people genuinely seem to struggle to warm to.

Perhaps it would've been better coming from someone else.

 

[Moose1414]

I doubt there is anything left to say about the incident or the man that hasn't been said already. As a general comment though, my feeling is when Adam Goodes steps off the field for the last time he'll be leaving the game having done more to divide people around race than unite them. There's about 70 blokes of indigenous heritage in the game who do a better job, their stars will be shining brighter on that day. Respect to Adam for trying, but true leadership heals division. His legacy speaks for itself.