Details on National Comp?

[LeverPuller]

Are the Dees pre empting here. What happens if in the new comp, they get a team, but do not get Daisy? Can you play for 1 club and work for another?

I doubt it. The AFL is using Daisy as 'Melbourne captain' pretty heavily as part of everything. I would suggest that the Dees and Dogs will be allowed to cherry pick a couple of players from their respective teams if they meet certain criteria i.e. played every exhibition match for the same team. Daisy is one of the few that has been.

Sure, it could be labelled as unfair, but the Dees have put in a lot of legwork here compared to other clubs.

 

[TWLS]

A very interesting Womens Footy story out of Adelaide. Both AFL Clubs in Adelaide are jockeying for the front position in the race to join the new league.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...p/news-story/2f3ef48186912af0a499d59dea33969c

 

[Kwality]

Playing for love or money:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-09/afls-women-playing-for-love-or-money/7153108

"We'll start from a base where the girls should be no worse off for playing football," said AFL General Manager of Game Development Simon Lethlean.

Is this the best way to spend the AFLs money, earned in full from the current competition ?

 

[LeverPuller]

Playing for love or money:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-09/afls-women-playing-for-love-or-money/7153108

"We'll start from a base where the girls should be no worse off for playing football," said AFL General Manager of Game Development Simon Lethlean.

Is this the best way to spend the AFLs money, earned in full from the current competition ?

You need some kind of bankroll for it. No league is going to organically develop - the W-League and the WBBL have had significant help.

 

[Kwality]

You need some kind of bankroll for it. No league is going to organically develop - the W-League and the WBBL have had significant help.

Yes BUT is it the best way to spend the money OR is it PC stuff, feelgood stuff - IMHO the only way the womens comp will work is as a lead in on game day of AFL games & I ask would fans prefer an old style reserves game in that slot - spend the money on the 2nd tier of the AFL clubs OR the womens game?

Got a bit of follow the leader in this decision, following the Matildas, following the WBBL for .... why is that?

 

[LeverPuller]

Yes BUT is it the best way to spend the money OR is it PC stuff, feelgood stuff - IMHO the only way the womens comp will work is as a lead in on game day of AFL games & I ask would fans prefer an old style reserves game in that slot - spend the money on the 2nd tier of the AFL clubs OR the womens game?

Got a bit of follow the leader in this decision, following the Matildas, following the WBBL for .... why is that?

Right now it isn't going to be a leadin comp. Going to be a March-June 14 game season with 3 weeks of finals. A leadin comp won't work with the lack of talent.

And the difference between women's footy and the other codes is that the others have easily-identifiable talent. Women's soccer has plenty of players through the same clubs. In addition, City in the W-League went and recruited abroad. WBBL is built out of structures that are already there too - the women's cricket teams.

Women's footy doesn't have those deep structures. How many ladies gave footy up for other things only to now have a chance? Recruiters are taking the time to assess the talent pool before starting up. It doesn't happen overnight.

I think the AFL have picked it well. Feb-March is the quietest sports time of the year - no cricket, no footy, A-League in the pre-finals lull. Early rugby but there won't be a Sydney team yet anyway. Get some traction, get people through the gates and play the final at Etihad.

 

[jatz14]

Yes BUT is it the best way to spend the money OR is it PC stuff, feelgood stuff - IMHO the only way the womens comp will work is as a lead in on game day of AFL games & I ask would fans prefer an old style reserves game in that slot - spend the money on the 2nd tier of the AFL clubs OR the womens game?

Got a bit of follow the leader in this decision, following the Matildas, following the WBBL for .... why is that?

Firstly, people should make up their mind, is the AFL a soulless, controlling, machiavellian organisation all about the almighty dollar, or are they Chardonay sipping, soft as butter, pink socialists, pandering to the feminists, homosexuals, and ethnics minorities. Big Footy seems to flip flop between the two views, depending on how it feels at the time. To answer, this league will be 2/3 controlling machiavellian AFL, and 1/3 socialist feel good AFL.

Secondly, follow the leader is what you do when you are not first. As footy is trying to go somewhere, and Soccer is going there to, but started earlier and is going faster, then follow is all the AFL can do.

Just today, Grandstand did a piece on womens football, and AFL Queensland announced that the school comp they are organising in Queensland has had almost 140 girls teams enter. I suspect that publicly, RL will not be bothered by this, they might even say it is good kids are playing sport, but behind closed doors, I bet they are seething.

This is in part, a risk minimisation strategy, because no one really knows what the generational effect of having huge numbers of kids taking up soccer will be. Everyone keeps saying, soccer has not taken over yet despite lots of juniors, so it will not in the future. This is not a view the AFL can take, as if it proves incorrect, it will take at least another generation to fix, if it can.

With the success and profile of the Matildas, and the wide popularity of girls soccer, the AFL has been fighting the code wars in junior ranks with 1 arm tied behind its back, it cannot keep doing this, and it knows it.

The advance of the timetable for a league from 2020 to 2017 has a lot less to do with the availability of players (everyone keeps saying it is going to be thin), and more to do with, the success of the Matildas, and the advances of womens cricket.

This is an extension of the code wars, and AFL is well behind soccer, and well ahead of RL, and it is only just getting started.

 

[jatz14]

Yes BUT is it the best way to spend the money OR is it PC stuff, feelgood stuff - IMHO the only way the womens comp will work is as a lead in on game day of AFL games & I ask would fans prefer an old style reserves game in that slot - spend the money on the 2nd tier of the AFL clubs OR the womens game?

Got a bit of follow the leader in this decision, following the Matildas, following the WBBL for .... why is that?

Bang for the buck. An extra couple of mill spent across the whole 2nd tier does not have much tangible effect in my opinion. Same couple of mill spent on a womens league has a huge effect. Not directly on the actual mens comp of course, but on football as a whole.

 

[Kwality]

Bang for the buck. An extra couple of mill spent across the whole 2nd tier does not have much tangible effect in my opinion. Same couple of mill spent on a womens league has a huge effect. Not directly on the actual mens comp of course, but on football as a whole.

Lets see if your hopes are realised, its positive for our game. Followed the growth of womens cricket over the past 10 years when its #1 supporter has been ABC sport & attaching it to the BBL has accelerated it in the wider sports media.

To scrutinise/question the expenditure should be welcome, it gives rise to your earlier suggestion:
Firstly, people should make up their mind, is the AFL a soulless, controlling, machiavellian organisation all about the almighty dollar, or are they Chardonay sipping, soft as butter, pink socialists, pandering to the feminists, homosexuals, and ethnics minorities. Big Footy seems to flip flop between the two views, depending on how it feels at the time. To answer, this league will be 2/3 controlling machiavellian AFL, and 1/3 socialist feel good AFL.

Secondly, follow the leader is what you do when you are not first. As footy is trying to go somewhere, and Soccer is going there to, but started earlier and is going faster, then follow is all the AFL can do.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

The problem the AFL has is getting the right numbers of sides for the first year of the competition.

Too many sides (especially after 10 was suggested!) could stretch the talent pool to far, thus harming the quality of matches on display.

Like it or not, both male and female 'elite' sport are TV programming. Just like the new TV series, if your first episode is bad, not too many will give it a second chance. If the second episode is just as bad, then the rest of the series gets buried to a secondary channel and a bad time slot.

It must be remembered that two fifths of the players who participated in the Exhibition Matches in 2015 came from just two clubs - Darebin Falcons and Coastal Titans. Both of those clubs are the dominate force in their respective leagues.

With four teams, you have to find more than twice as many players that can match it with those Falcons/Titans players, with six teams, well, you do the math.

I believe women's footy will get to the 10 teams mark within 10 years, but I think even six teams is stretching it in such a short time frame to prepare.

 

[jatz14]

The problem the AFL has is getting the right numbers of sides for the first year of the competition.

Too many sides (especially after 10 was suggested!) could stretch the talent pool to far, thus harming the quality of matches on display.

Like it or not, both male and female 'elite' sport are TV programming. Just like the new TV series, if your first episode is bad, not too many will give it a second chance. If the second episode is just as bad, then the rest of the series gets buried to a secondary channel and a bad time slot.

It must be remembered that two fifths of the players who participated in the Exhibition Matches in 2015 came from just two clubs - Darebin Falcons and Coastal Titans. Both of those clubs are the dominate force in their respective leagues.

With four teams, you have to find more than twice as many players that can match it with those Falcons/Titans players, with six teams, well, you do the math.

I believe women's footy will get to the 10 teams mark within 10 years, but I think even six teams is stretching it in such a short time frame to prepare.

Girls play footy covered this with the article on, how do you assess female players. How many players are hiding away in lower leagues who would be good enough?

It is really hard to know. Even a really struggling team may have a gem.

I think this is where the ten team comment comes from. The academy has had a look at Vic players outside Darebin etc, and seen how quickly players can improve with access to quality training. A young player with not much experience, playing in a struggling team in a lower league may be severely limited in their development. Put them in a high performance program with good standards, you may get really rapid improvement.

I am encouraged that support for ten teams is coming from Darren Flanagan, who is in a better position than me to judge

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[CrowdedHouse]

Girls play footy covered this with the article on, how do you assess female players. How many players are hiding away in lower leagues who would be good enough?

It is really hard to know. Even a really struggling team may have a gem.

I think this is where the ten team comment comes from. The academy has had a look at Vic players outside Darebin etc, and seen how quickly players can improve with access to quality training. A young player with not much experience, playing in a struggling team in a lower league may be severely limited in their development. Put them in a high performance program with good standards, you may get really rapid improvement.

I am encouraged that support for ten teams is coming from Darren Flanagan, who is in a better position than me to judge

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One problem is the lower division women training with the academy, but then going back to play lower division football.

If we are preparing them to play 'the best of the best' next year, I reckon the hard word should be put on those women to play in the top division (with a new club) this year or be overlooked in the draft.

Last year, some of the Div 1 clubs and anything below Division 2 was 'social football' in standard, at best. You can't have women preparing for the national league playing in a division of that standard.

 

[jatz14]

One problem is the lower division women training with the academy, but then going back to play lower division football.

If we are preparing them to play 'the best of the best' next year, I reckon the hard word should be put on those women to play in the top division (with a new club) this year or be overlooked in the draft.

Last year, some of the Div 1 clubs and anything below Division 2 was 'social football' in standard, at best. You can't have women preparing for the national league playing in a division of that standard.

I think girls moving to higher divisions is happening. How much though?

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[Frank J Moose]

I think girls moving to higher divisions is happening. How much though?

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Stupid decision especially in WA. There is currently too much "consolidation" in Coastal and Swans. With no zones and no limits they just "poach" most of the young players. You feel obliged to move or you don't make squads which forces players out of the game. It limits girls who don't want to (or not feasible to) move opportunities. There should be more effort in spreading talent to bring up the overall standard. More games that are vontests are better than a couple of high standard games where they crush the rest of the teams.

 

[jatz14]

Stupid decision especially in WA. There is currently too much "consolidation" in Coastal and Swans. With no zones and no limits they just "poach" most of the young players. You feel obliged to move or you don't make squads which forces players out of the game. It limits girls who don't want to (or not feasible to) move opportunities. There should be more effort in spreading talent to bring up the overall standard. More games that are vontests are better than a couple of high standard games where they crush the rest of the teams.

They did implement an equalisation strategy a couple of years ago. No real sign it is working yet, but I think it excluded already established players, so it may still be working through the system. Hopefully it means any talent identified at the recent camp cannot go to titans.

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[TWLS]

Off topic but will be related eventually on what wages the new Womens League will pay when properly structered.
Not included in the article were the Matildas who recently were given a wage rise to the Australian Basic Wage of $34000 per Annum.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-02-14/the-money-in-australian-sport-is-in-the-afl

 

[LeverPuller]

The training tops that the AFL Vic girls have on them have got 4 logos: Carlton, Essendon, Western Bulldogs and Melbourne. It's the new Dees logo too. I reckon it's locked in.

 

[jatz14]

The training tops that the AFL Vic girls have on them have got 4 logos: Carlton, Essendon, Western Bulldogs and Melbourne. It's the new Dees logo too. I reckon it's locked in.

Those are the clubs providing facilities for the Vic training academy. It may be locked in, but it may also just be recognition of those teams.

 

[LeverPuller]

Simon Lethlean on SEN:
- Team numbers not confirmed - six to eight teams
- League format to be announced in March or April, licenses to be worked out after that
- Draft later in the year
- League likely to be scheduled in February-March to avoid clashing with the women's state leagues

 

[Frank J Moose]

Simon Lethlean on SEN:
- Team numbers not confirmed - six to eight teams
- League format to be announced in March or April, licenses to be worked out after that
- Draft later in the year
- League likely to be scheduled in February-March to avoid clashing with the women's state leagues

Sounds like a glorified exhibition series rather than a national competition.

Avoid clashing with the womens league? I thought that was the point. You can't have the national comp second to half arsed lop sided comps dominated by a few sides. But then again the administrators of those sides are the ones shaping the national competition.

If (or maybe that should be when) they get it wrong they will stuff up womens footy for years.

 

[CrowdedHouse]

Sounds like a glorified exhibition series rather than a national competition.

Avoid clashing with the womens league? I thought that was the point. You can't have the national comp second to half arsed lop sided comps dominated by a few sides. But then again the administrators of those sides are the ones shaping the national competition.

If (or maybe that should be when) they get it wrong they will stuff up womens footy for years.

It's like when I saw the Greens arguing for a Tassie women's side.

If there's no draft, a Tassie side with only Tassie based players would be a disaster!

Just last year they played Queensland, only kicked a point and got done by 100+ points!

 

[Kwality]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-18/womens-afl-2017-competition-call-for-more-details/7180052

With the opening bounce just a year away, some of the most powerful women in the game are urging the AFL to nail down the details.

Richmond Tigers president Peggy O'Neal said her club would only consider its own women's team if it made commercial sense.

"We don't know, for example, what kind of financial contribution comes from us, what kind of financial contribution from the league, how many games we're going play, where we're going play them," she said.

All AFL clubs have been told they will be able to tender for a women's team.

The original cut-off for tender submissions was planned for this month, but the AFL still has not managed to get the tender documents to the clubs.

And then there's the thorny question of payment.

No girl who plays will be worse off for doing so
"We'd love to pay them," Mr Lethlean told 7.30.

"At the moment we have got to work out a commercial business case that means we can.

"But what we will do is make sure that any girl that competes is no worse off from doing so."

SNAFU yet again from the AFL, yesterday it was pricing !!!

 

[jatz14]

While the delay is bad, hopefully it is for good reasons. I would rather them delay to get the details right than to go half arsed, just to meet deadlines.

Going without having it sorted would imply they are not really serious. Sort of a 'what the hell, it's only women's footy, not like the details really matter' attitude.

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[TWLS]

This article appeared on the AFL Web Site today. It maybe the latest info and may not but it does contain more information than before.
As we said before the AFL are under the pump and they wont please everybody.
Liked the bit about the Commercial interest so the players may get some wages after all.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-02-19/eight-womens-teams-set-for-national-comp

 

[Frank J Moose]

This article appeared on the AFL Web Site today. It maybe the latest info and may not but it does contain more information than before.
As we said before the AFL are under the pump and they wont please everybody.
Liked the bit about the Commercial interest so the players may get some wages after all.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-02-19/eight-womens-teams-set-for-national-comp

So inless there ia draft that moves players interstate WA will romp home.