Muse - Over-rated and unsuitable to play at Wembley Stadium

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Carlos said:
I can perfectly understand why some people might not get the Muse thing. Their tunes wont resonate with everyone, and i guess some people dont like to be challenged or made to think a bit deeper than those magic 3 chords, completely inane lyrics and extremely average musical ability that Noel and the boys have made their living from.
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Listen I'm not getting into a muse v oasis argument, although 'off the record' i much prefer muse's music.

The paragraph above suggests you believe muse are alternative and challenging and i strongly disagree with this. Again, I like their music but i do not find them challenging in the least. Perhaps 'challenging' compared to justin timberlake, so yes, it could be argued they're challenging mainstream commercial crap music. However I see them as a very mainstream commercial band who are okay.
 
nicky said:
Listen I'm not getting into a muse v oasis argument, although 'off the record' i much prefer muse's music.

The paragraph above suggests you believe muse are alternative and challenging and i strongly disagree with this. Again, I like their music but i do not find them challenging in the least. Perhaps 'challenging' compared to justin timberlake, so yes, it could be argued they're commercially challenging. However I see them as a very mainstream commercial band who are okay.
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Carlos never inferred this, he merely stated (and rightfully so) that they are more "challenging" and "alternative" as you put it than Oasis.
 
legitimatic said:
Carlos never inferred this, he merely stated (and rightfully so) that they are more "challenging" and "alternative" as you put it than Oasis.
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yeah he did, he said some people don't like muse because they don't like to be challenged. I cannot see how muse are challenging. They're a decent band who make good music.
 

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Carlos said:
In just about every facet of what makes a band great, Muse comprehensively sh*t on Oasis, U2 and any other current UK band who you think could fill a stadium from such a great height that the poo would have ice on it by the time it landed on the posers.

I'd really enjoy the opportunity to get into specifics here rather than blanket statements, especially when it comes to your claim regarding rhythm sections. That was the one that dropped my jaw in particular.

I'll let you go first though Andy.
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Nice work, as per usual Carlos.

One thing's for sure - there's a lot more to people's perceptions and opinions of a band than just the music itself.

It could be that they once liked them ... until they became popular. Now they (and you can insert any large band in here) are just sellouts, and their new stuff is never as good as that first album.

It could be that a kid in their class who they despise wears the band t-shirt. Maybe the lead singer looks like a teacher they once had that they didn't get along with.

Often people are hugely polarised in their opinion of two bands that are essentially very similar. You know, the musical equivalent of believing that Phil Krakuoer was a great footballer but that Jim Krakuoer was a dud.

I'm sure there would also be a mathematical formula that could be constructed to measure 'Liking For A Band', and it would show this to be indirectly proportional to 'Time' and 'Popularity', amongst other variables. Often it's got very little to do with the actual quailty of the music the band churns out, as is often shown on this board.

Keep up the great posts.
 
nicky said:
yeah he did, he said some people don't like muse because they don't like to be challenged. I cannot see how muse are challenging. They're a decent band who make good music.
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Legitimatic pretty much said it for me, and as you might have guessed along the way, i am inclined to agree with you that they're a decent band who make good music. ;)

But the fact that they took until their 3rd album to really break in this country and to also become a headline band O/S suggests to me that they went over the top of alot of people's heads for a while and simply were not as mainstream or palatable as you, i or anyone else who digs them thinks they are, especially when compared to the big stadium acts that have been talked about in this thread.

You may indeed have reasonably adventerous, open minded tastes Nicky and hence find Muse's music to be just what it is: f*cking well made music by some seriously good players.

But i dare say there'd be a lot of people who restrict their listening habits to the well beaten path (not a criticism by the way) and would would be slightly bemused by or may possibly not have ever been exposed to a song like Micro Cuts, Space Dementia, Stockholm Syndrome, Assassin or any of Muse's other slightly more abrasive or extravagant stuff.

And having exposed a lot of friends to Muse for the first time over the years, almost every single one of them comments on his voice and how unsure they are whether they like it or not at first.

Thats the kind of thing i meant by challenging.
 
GhostofJimJess said:
Nice work, as per usual Carlos.

One thing's for sure - there's a lot more to people's perceptions and opinions of a band than just the music itself.

It could be that they once liked them ... until they became popular. Now they (and you can insert any large band in here) are just sellouts, and their new stuff is never as good as that first album.

It could be that a kid in their class who they despise wears the band t-shirt. Maybe the lead singer looks like a teacher they once had that they didn't get along with.

Often people are hugely polarised in their opinion of two bands that are essentially very similar. You know, the musical equivalent of believing that Phil Krakuoer was a great footballer but that Jim Krakuoer was a dud.

I'm sure there would also be a mathematical formula that could be constructed to measure 'Liking For A Band', and it would show this to be indirectly proportional to 'Time' and 'Popularity', amongst other variables. Often it's got very little to do with the actual quailty of the music the band churns out, as is often shown on this board.

Keep up the great posts.
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Wicked post mate.

See, you're another one like Fwoy and the other level headed cats on here. The tone of your posts are just so damn reasonable. You never get on and huff and puff and crap on like me. You just make sense.

You all sh*t me!! :p

PS: Oh and FWIW, i bloody loved Phil Krakuoer when i was a kid! :p
 
Carlos said:
I'm done dude. This is actually starting to hurt my head and for reasons that just arent worth putting one's self through.

But just promise me one thing Fwoy (and the 99% of other cats on here that know i respect them:)

if i EVER come across like some of the knobs in this thread have, PM or something and tell me. Because i'd fair dinkum hate myself if i went through life like that and didnt know.

I'm going to bed.
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You're coming across worse - like an arrogant know-it-all whose opinion is law.
 
Can't be arsed with all the arguments. I'd just like to say that both Muse & Oasis are brilliant bands in their own special way & I love 'em both.

It's amazing how big Muse have become, I can remember buying Showbiz the day it came out in Australia & the blank looks I got in the record store when I asked if it had come in.

In terms of the live show, I can't compare because I haven't seen Muse live yet but Oasis do put on a fantastic gig in every respect, one of the best live bands anyone could hope to see.
 
i know i'm a bit late, but a few observations from the previous discussion...

just maybe said:
No, they didn't go deeper. All you had was blanket statements. 'Duh, Muse is better than everyone else they is more technical'.
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now tell me which of the next 2 quotes is a blanket statement?

Carlos said:
As Fwoy pointed out (cheers by the way bro), i lumped the whole of Ireland amongst the United Kingdom. Mistake.

Ok champ, lets try to make this simple to understand.

Firstly, the thread was mainly questioning the stadium worthiness of Muse and specifically (and completely hilariously) casting doubts over their rhythm section, and even more laughably comparing them to the rhythm sections of Oasis, U2 and any other stadium band who LtD thinks to be suitable to headline Wembley etc.

Further, he also cast doubts on Muse's live sound by virtue of the fact they're a 3 piece (despite the fact they have a touring keys player on stage with them), which i found pretty funny considering U2 are basically a 3 piece band with a front man (i.e bass, drums, guitar, voice, as well as a sh*t load of backing tracks).

Now this has nothing to do with the fact i personally find U2's music as interesting as uncooked rice. You and plenty of people obviously dig them and i'm not gonna rag on you for that. IN MY OPINION i find Muse's ability to craft a song infinitely more interesting than U2's. But this aint about that.

This is about comparing the bands' abilities as live players and their suitability to a big venue.

Now, i've said it already, but i'll repeat: there is no doubt that Oasis and U2 are big stage bands, although from the amount of stuff i've read, heard and seen, Oasis are incredibly inconsistent. U2's ability to play a stadium cannot be doubted though.

But you are trying to contend that Muse cannot stack up to U2.

So lets get into specifics shall we?

Matt Bellamy as a vocalist vs Bono as a vocalist:
When in form, i think Bono is reasonably ok vocalis and there are some U2 songs with great vocal parts, but they're parts that anyone with a reasonable vocal technique could nail and do much better. He has massive limitations, the gap between his best and worst is ridiculous and i've heard some howler moments where he hasnt gotten near the pitch of the song he is attempting, and other moments where his voice is simply packing it in and even more embarrassingly has actually lost his spot in a tune and come in at wrong moments.

He couldnt dream of taking his voice the places Matt Bellamy, either technically or creatively. I've been to/heard/watched a stack of Muse live performances. I've never heard Bellamy be anything less than superb, and thats not bias, thats fact. He is an absolute professional and effortlessly so much more a pure vocalist than Bono (and just about anyone else on the planet) that its embarrassing to even compare them.

Edge vs Matt Bellamy as a guitarist:
The Edge has a hugely distinctive sound which IMO makes U2 what they are just as much as what Bono brings to that table. But while he has a beautiful feel, a great meter and is a consistent live performer, when you take away the delay drenched sound and all the other effects, his playing is extremely basic and he is a hugely limited guitarist. He does however contribute some solid backing vocals , although many of his parts are provided via a sequenced backing track.

Matt Bellamy is in another universe compared to him as a musician and a performer. Technically, creatively, conceptually he makes Edge look like Susanna Hoffs and since we're also talking about their ability to fill a big stage, he also kills him as a live performer. Bellamy is a mental case on stage. Its not even a contest, and thats before we factor in Bellamy's ability as a pianist, especially live...

Adam Clayton vs Chris Wolstenholme
This was where LtD's original assertion about rhythm sections became hilariously farcical. Adam Clayton is the perfect bass player for U2. No doubt. But to even try to contend that he is a good bass player, let alone anywhere near Chris is verging on being mentally unhinged. Chris' ability as a vocalist has also come along massively, although again, some of his parts are sequenced via backing track.

Larry Mullen Jnr vs Dom Howard
And this is where it really gets embarrassing.

Back in the day, Larry was a pretty solid drummer who had some nice ideas, and throughout his career he's managed to have a distinctive drum sound, but thats as much to do with their sound engineers and drum techs as it is to do with him.

Now this aint about what they do on their recordings (although FWIW its been a very long time since i've heard anything resembling an exciting or interesting drum part from him) But as a live performer, while he is solid and reliable, he has lost all the energy and whatever little flare he did have back when U2 made interesting music. But despite the fact that for the last 10 or so years he has often looked on the verge of falling asleep when playing live, he still somehow manages to make all his parts look alot harder than they are, despite the fact that all his parts are really basic. Thats not a sign of a great drummer.

You dont need to have any idea about drumming to acknowledge that Dom from Muse is an absolute jet of a live performer and has an absolute mutherf*cker of a live sound. But being a drummer and being obsessed with it all, i can also point out how technically accomplished he has become and that some of his parts require way above average skill level. There are some finer points to his playing that put him in the absolute top bracket of the more mainstream dudes around today and in far away categories that the Larry Mullens of this world have never/will never occupy.

The only thing U2 have over Muse as a live band is their world wide popularity, the sheer volume of their back catalogue to choose from to play live (many of which i doubt they'd be able to pull off anymore anyway) and the size of the budget they have to inject into their live production.

Ask yourself this: name one tune from U2's back catalogue that Muse couldnt pull of absolutely faithfully and convincingly (let alone take to another stratosphere) live? I didnt say write (as this aint about songwriting), i simply said "play".

Now name for me just 5 Muse tunes that U2 (or Oasis * giggles *) could play even remotely convincingly live?
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or.....

just maybe said:
Hahah, U2 is so far out of Muse's league, in any era, it's not funny.

U2's music, even current era, will remain for a long time more than Muse's.

I like Muse, but let's not pretend they are anything close to U2. Or that they can match them in the live stakes.
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i bet your head really hurts after all those posts carlos, mine hurts just from reading it... it's hard to have discussion when people don't acknowledge the points you make and just say "U2 are better"

Carlos said:
But just promise me one thing Fwoy (and the 99% of other cats on here that know i respect them:)

if i EVER come across like some of the knobs in this thread have, PM or something and tell me. Because i'd fair dinkum hate myself if i went through life like that and didnt know.
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that one really made me laugh... i'll keep it in mind mate, however i doubt we will ever have to give you that tap on the shoulder...
 
Er...Carlos' long essay essentially amounted to 'Muse is better because I like them more'.

There was no actual substantive evidence in his comparisons.

These kind of quotes are not evidence. They're thinly veiled personal insults that carry no value or weight of evidence:

But to even try to contend that he is a good bass player, let alone anywhere near Chris is verging on being mentally unhinged

You dont need to have any idea about drumming to acknowledge that Dom from Muse is an absolute jet of a live performer and has an absolute mutherf*cker of a live sound

Matt Bellamy is in another universe compared to him as a musician and a performer. Technically, creatively, conceptually he makes Edge look like Susanna Hoffs
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Please. Saying it doesn't make it so.

You've got sucked in by Carlos' ability to write a lot.
 
just maybe said:
Er...Carlos' long essay essentially amounted to 'Muse is better because I like them more'.

There was no actual substantive evidence in his comparisons.

These kind of quotes are not evidence. They're thinly veiled personal insults that carry no value or weight of evidence:
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You're asking for "evidence" within a conversation about music? Seriously?
Carlos gave his "opinion" which is all he can do within this context.
Go back to the SRP board, or are you still banned for being a pedantic focker constantly seeking "evidence".
BTW....Muse>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>U2. No evidence required.
 
G.O.B said:
You're asking for "evidence" within a conversation about music? Seriously?
Carlos gave his "opinion" which is all he can do within this context.
Go back to the SRP board, or are you still banned for being a pedantic focker constantly seeking "evidence".
BTW....Muse>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>U2. No evidence required.
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Hahaha, Muse don't even hold a candle to U2.

One of the all-time great rock bands vs a rocked-up Radiohead rip-off.

Any serious music critic points out the Radiohead-isms as Muse's big failing. They don't have their own identity. They have some good music, but a lot of copying too.

As for Carlos...you may need to sit down and work your brain and get it to connect to your eyes, given he was the one asking me for substance and not making 'blanket statements' on the issue. Now you criticise me for asking the same thing back. Nice one, sunshine.
 

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just maybe said:
Hahaha, Muse don't even hold a candle to U2.

One of the all-time great rock bands vs a rocked-up Radiohead rip-off.
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The Edge is nothing without his Delay Unit, Tremelo, Phaser, Flanger, Echo Unit, Pitch Shifter, Reverb and a myriad more. He's a snake oil salesman of the rock world.

Radiohead ripoff? The only thing similar is the falsetto - thats it.
 
nicky said:
Listen I'm not getting into a muse v oasis argument, although 'off the record' i much prefer muse's music.

The paragraph above suggests you believe muse are alternative and challenging and i strongly disagree with this. Again, I like their music but i do not find them challenging in the least. Perhaps 'challenging' compared to justin timberlake, so yes, it could be argued they're challenging mainstream commercial crap music. However I see them as a very mainstream commercial band who are okay.
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Honestly and I'm been serious here, [curious more] have you heard any of their songs, apart from Time is Running Out, Starlight and Supermassive Black Hole?

It just comes across as if you're one of those people who has heard their more radio friendly music and gone, 'what's challenging about that?'
 
just maybe said:
Hahaha, Muse don't even hold a candle to U2.

One of the all-time great rock bands vs a rocked-up Radiohead rip-off.
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Of all the stupid, inane, pointless, hackneyed, garbage arguements, the best you can do is call Muse a Radiohead rip-off?

Didn't that insult go out with the $2 note and cassette tapes? That really is scraping the bottom of the barrell mate. :eek:
 
You know the best way to find out whether Muse sound good at Wembley, without all this pointless bickering?

Let them play at Wembley and then do a comparison!!! ;)
 
skybeau said:
You know the best way to find out whether Muse sound good at Wembley, without all this pointless bickering?

Let them play at Wembley and then do a comparison!!! ;)
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Or purchase the Absolution Tour DVD, that was an outdoor gig, and they absolutly pwned, anybody who thinks they are unsuitable for Wembley has NO IDEA, their isnt many acts out their who are more suited then those guys.
That is indisputable
 
Jason Voorhees said:
The Edge is nothing without his Delay Unit, Tremelo, Phaser, Flanger, Echo Unit, Pitch Shifter, Reverb and a myriad more. He's a snake oil salesman of the rock world.

Radiohead ripoff? The only thing similar is the falsetto - thats it.
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Hahaha, criticising Edge for using effects when you're backing up Muse? Wow, what a stupid hole to dig yourself. Muse use far more effects than U2 ever will.

Unlike Muse, U2 play acoustic regularly and their songs are just as good, so you're full of it.

Have a nice day. :)
 
just maybe said:
.

U2 could take any of Muse's back catalogue. ANY.
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Just out of interest, who plays the piano on Butterflies and Hurricanes?

You have lost so much credibility here it ain't funny. You've lost it. Your opinion on music has taken a massive dive with your hackneyed, foam-mouthed attempts to compare a Radiohead-inspired prog-rock band to one of the all-time great rock bands.
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Can you please list which Muse songs sound like which Radiohead songs?
 
Carlos said:
Legitimatic pretty much said it for me, and as you might have guessed along the way, i am inclined to agree with you that they're a decent band who make good music. ;)

But the fact that they took until their 3rd album to really break in this country and to also become a headline band O/S suggests to me that they went over the top of alot of people's heads for a while and simply were not as mainstream or palatable as you, i or anyone else who digs them thinks they are, especially when compared to the big stadium acts that have been talked about in this thread.

You may indeed have reasonably adventerous, open minded tastes Nicky and hence find Muse's music to be just what it is: f*cking well made music by some seriously good players.

But i dare say there'd be a lot of people who restrict their listening habits to the well beaten path (not a criticism by the way) and would would be slightly bemused by or may possibly not have ever been exposed to a song like Micro Cuts, Space Dementia, Stockholm Syndrome, Assassin or any of Muse's other slightly more abrasive or extravagant stuff.

And having exposed a lot of friends to Muse for the first time over the years, almost every single one of them comments on his voice and how unsure they are whether they like it or not at first.

Thats the kind of thing i meant by challenging.
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Sure, so you were just patronising dimwits with no taste. As long as you know that I'm not challenged by them, it's all A Okay ;) :D
 
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