8.3 Million in debt?

[Gralin]

(...in Dingley).

But yes, the Eagles could probably purchase a $60 million training base in Victoria if they kept ALL of the money they made.

Obviously WC are not going to setup a base in Vic but they are in the middle of a $50mill development at Lathlain as their new base of operations.

Not exactly the same as Dingley but we are talking about a club that has people pay to be on a waiting list to become a member, they have serious dollars behind them.

Pies are probably the only other VIC club that could entertain doing what Hawks are

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

My point was merely whilst it may cost upwards of 60 million to purchase and fit-out appropriately, it's true marketable value will likely be well below that due to the unique and specific nature of the development.

Or....we could just keep it for 50 years, then demolish and subdivide off into individual 1000 residential land parcels selling for >$1 million each.

 

[Thaihawk]

Taking selective figures out of a balance sheet can distort the true situation, and that's what the journalists have done here.

 

[Todman]

Hawthorn Football Club Limited Statements of financial position As at 31 October 2015
The Club Note ..................2015 .................2014
Current Assets ..................$........................ $
Cash and cash equivalents .14,631,827........ 9,059,993
Total current assets....... 18,292,278.... 12,840,218
Total non-current assets 39,977,045 ....39,570,840
Total assets................... 58,269,323..... 52,411,058
Total current liabilities ...12,931,990..... 11,048,527
Total N-C liabilities......... 8,493,292........ 9,671,342
Total liabilities.............. 21,425,282....... 20,719,869
Net assets .....................36,844,041....... 31,691,189
Retained profits................ 36,169,008........ 30,794,709

 

[Bikefreak]

Taking selective figures out of a balance sheet can distort the true situation, and that's what the journalists have done here.

Being their usual divisive, coniving, scheming, dishonest selves.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[Brishawk]

I assumed they didn't - like the NRL clubs, the pokie profits are "donated" to the Not-for-profit entity.

Looking at the Annual report, the club pays no taxes. Nice!

Income Tax No income tax is payable as the Club is an exempt sporting organisation in accordance with Section 50-45 of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997.

Just not sure if companies owned by Hawthorn incur a tax liability on profits. If they don't (which seems bizarre) then no tax shield.

 

[MrPremiership]

Hawthorn Football Club Limited Statements of financial position As at 31 October 2015
The Club Note ..................2015 .................2014
Current Assets ..................$........................ $
Cash and cash equivalents .14,631,827........ 9,059,993
Total current assets....... 18,292,278.... 12,840,218
Total non-current assets 39,977,045 ....39,570,840
Total assets................... 58,269,323..... 52,411,058
Total current liabilities ...12,931,990..... 11,048,527
Total N-C liabilities......... 8,493,292........ 9,671,342
Total liabilities.............. 21,425,282....... 20,719,869
Net assets .....................36,844,041....... 31,691,189
Retained profits................ 36,169,008........ 30,794,709

So our cash went up 5.6m and out total liabilities remained relatively constant.....I like it.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Main thing I take is they could give members some $$ relief not constantly try to 'upgrade' them by stealth.

many of us would like to be lifetime members but its just not sustainable any more

Depends on the type of membership you want
$18 per month for 10 months
Not that hard

 

[savagelunchbox]

NFP sports clubs and associations are audited more than anything else based on that they get a hell of a lot of money coming in. They need to show what it has and will be used for.

 

[ahhhhhh]

NFP sports clubs and associations are audited more than anything else based on that they get a hell of a lot of money coming in. They need to show what it has and will be used for.

Every company that is audited, is audited the same

 

[Samthegun]

The debt probably doesn't incur much interest, given the current borrowing-lending climate.

 

[Gralin]

The debt probably doesn't incur much interest, given the current borrowing-lending climate.

Its debt not a debt problem at this stage.
Debt is not automatically a problem and not all debt is created equal.
Debt from an income producing asset is different than say debt from paying out Malthouse or for a bad supplement program.
The numbers in that article mean nothing by themselves.
The same can be said of the profit numbers.
If a club only makes a profit due to a hand out are they really more viable than a club who broke even without a hand out?

 

[wahawk]

West Coast easily

WCE keep a very small amount of their profit, the rest goes to WAFC, who then cry poor every year

 

[Brant]

WCE keep a very small amount of their profit, the rest goes to WAFC, who then cry poor every year

I do not know % but believe this to be the case - WCE aren't just a cash-rich organisation, their cash goes somewhere (WAFC), who burn it like burnaholics at a burn conference.

 

[HawkXNtric]

As a regular reader of financial reports, I thought I would highlight a few other points from the 2015 annual report for the forum's reading pleasure (and gloating, if that's your thing):

• No, the club doesn't pay income tax.
• But, according to the 2015 annual report, we DID pay $1.35m in equalisation payments to the AFL (2014 = $668K)!
• The 2015 net profit figure of $3.3m doesn't include the specific donation of $2.0m for Dingley - our audited net profit result was actually 5.3m.
• Total interest expense for 2015 was $561K, however we received total income & dividend income of $646K.
• The HFC Foundation now has total funds of $6.5m (included in cash & investments in the consolidated balance sheet position).
• Total cash funds of $14.6m indicate a strong financial position, plus there was a further $7.9m in investments (term deposits/managed funds, etc).
• Long term debt of $8.3m basically all relates to the Caroline Springs Joint Venture, a long-term investment.

Essentially, we have the highest revenues in the league and have made the biggest net profit in the league for the last couple of years. Sure, debt is high, but the table also should have included assets to provide a more complete picture. As has been pointed out in this thread, the important thing is that the club has sufficient cash flows to service the debt.

The finances appear to be sound, now let's bring on the football for 2016!

 

[Todman]

Looking at the Annual report, the club pays no taxes. Nice!

Income Tax No income tax is payable as the Club is an exempt sporting organisation in accordance with Section 50-45 of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997.

Just not sure if companies owned by Hawthorn incur a tax liability on profits. If they don't (which seems bizarre) then no tax shield.

As an exempt sporting organisation the club is prohibited from paying a dividend. No individual can receive a cash benefit from the club ( and I don't mean employees and players)

 

[Bikefreak]

WCE keep a very small amount of their profit, the rest goes to WAFC, who then cry poor every year

And also dont seem like they could run a chook raffle without f*cking it up.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

 

[tige19]

We could in a heartbeat clear that debt if we wanted to, the club would be negligent in doing so as generally speaking you would prefer to use that capital to re-invest in maturing assets.

If you drive around a place like Ivanhoe you'll see a lot of 1/4 acre blocks with big houses on them, the likelyhood is those families are half a mill in debt on those blocks but have the means to service that debt all the while sitting on maturing asset. The HFC is a maturing asset and cash cow, if there was no debt to service there would be no business progression.

 

[MrPremiership]

Every company that is audited, is audited the same

That is not true. This is not utopia.

Some entities are "audited", and some other entities are audited.

If they were all audited the same, there would be fewer corporate collapses.

I was an auditor in another life for a Top 4 firm, and some of the "sampling" that was suggested was ridiculous.....just saying

 

[ahhhhhh]

That is not true. This is not utopia.

Some entities are "audited", and some other entities are audited.

If they were all audited the same, there would be fewer corporate collapses.

I was an auditor in another life for a Top 4 firm, and some of the "sampling" that was suggested was ridiculous.....just saying

All require a reasonable level of assurance

 

[Brishawk]

All require a reasonable level of assurance

Working for a business that is audited by several different parties I can tell you that who is doing the audit and why they are doing the audit has a large bearing on what is investigated and the level of assurance on various topics required by the auditor.

 

[Gold Member]

If only Essendrug* was forensically audited....

Maybe one day the AOD financials will get a good looking to.

 

[ahhhhhh]

Working for a business that is audited by several different parties I can tell you that who is doing the audit and why they are doing the audit has a large bearing on what is investigated and the level of assurance on various topics required by the auditor.

I think that's getting away from the original point that some NFPs are audited more than others, which was in reference to an annual financial statement audit? Unless they are not required to have an audit (they may be subject to a review based on their size), all financial statement audit engagements require the same level of assurance (reasonable), getting to that level of assurance is a matter of professional judgement by auditors.

 

[Todman]

The HFC is a maturing asset and cash cow.

My old marketing lecturer said that after a cash cow comes a dog.

Problem child - high growth, poor returns ..... Dicker years
Star - high growth, high returns ...................Kennett years
Cash Cow - poor growth, high returns............Newbold years
Dog - poor growth, poor returns. ..................Garvey years?

 

[MrPremiership]

My old marketing lecturer said that after a cash cow comes a dog.

Problem child - high growth, poor returns ..... Dicker years
Star - high growth, high returns ...................Kennett years
Cash Cow - poor growth, high returns............Newbold years
Dog - poor growth, poor returns. ..................Garvey years?

very little Garvey can do here, its a lose-lose

if he succeeds then people will put it down to Newbold/Kennett/on-field success
if he fails, then its his fault