Strategy Aaron Naughton - Key Defender or Key Forward?

[BEaston]

The one thing Lobb is actually decent at, is making a contest. I'd back him in to support JUH & Darcy to ensure we don't get outmarked too often to the same level as Naughton currently provides - if Naughton were to move back.

Obviously Lobb is nowhere near the level of Naughton in terms of offensive marking power or ground level pressure. But in terms of us getting mauled my oppo bigs outmarking us, I don't think we'd lose too much.

 

[BEaston]

If Naughton stays forward, I'd say his career plays out as an "almost star". Decent enough, and some amazing moments but probably never puts it fully together as a superstar player that he could as a backman IMO. I'd say we'd look back at him as what he could have been, but ultimately never achieves as a forward.

 

[doggies ftw]

You could go smaller and just operate with Jamarra and Darcy.
Hopefully they can string some performances together but I’d like to see Clarke and Bedendo have a crack at the forward set up at some point.
There is a big risk and unknown to such a big positional change but geez the currently set up both forward and back isn’t working.

Yeah that would be my plan, if the season falls to s**t. Bit too early to be swinging massive structural changes like that IMO. Marra, Darcy, Bedendo, Cody could be an interesting set up but it would rely on direct ball movement which we have just not figured out atm.

I’m seeing a lot of people looking to replace Naughty with Darcy in the current structure though - and Darcy, Lobb in the same forward line would just be hell on earth for forward pressure!

 

[dergert]

Naughton and Jamarra would compliment each other well if they were coached properly.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Naughton and Jamarra would compliment each other well if they were coached properly.

Really like Naughton playing up the field with Marra inside 50.


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[House_of_Dahl]

Really like Naughton playing up the field with Marra inside 50.


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And this looked great in the practice matches too. Bizzare we went back to leaving him deep with May

 

[LondonBulldog]

Yeah that would be my plan, if the season falls to s**t. Bit too early to be swinging massive structural changes like that IMO. Marra, Darcy, Bedendo, Cody could be an interesting set up but it would rely on direct ball movement which we have just not figured out atm.

I’m seeing a lot of people looking to replace Naughty with Darcy in the current structure though - and Darcy, Lobb in the same forward line would just be hell on earth for forward pressure!

Reality is, big forwards are not the be all and end all of winning Grand finals anymore. Two competent workhorse who make the most of there opportunities like a Miocheck are good enough. Its a running game and essentially you need 20 athletes running around.

If they don't want to move him back, Lobb goes and Darcy doesn't come in either, we need more pressure not less, two key forwards is enough. Yet if they do move him back you would go JUH and get Darcy into the team.

 

[dergert]

Really like Naughton playing up the field with Marra inside 50.


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Two generational talents and a solid B player in Lobb and we are blowing their careers.

 

[mattwa]

Agree and I think even Naughton at CHF stops some of the rebounding back into D50. He can either grab the bail out kick from defense or make a contest. So many times on the weekend our bail out kick was straight to the dees who transitioned it forward with ease.

Also Jamarra is a natural forward and smart. Perfect to work inside 50 with space yet spangher has no clue and does the anti roll Lyon and flood his own forwardline. The issue is not naughton forward but coaching

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Could Naughts positioning be an acknowledgement of the poor penetration in his kicking?

 

[dogwatch]

There’s more chance of Michael Talia returning to the club...

... saying "Hey guys, you'll never believe it but I found that goddam phone!!"

 

[dogwatch]

Short term:
All players, no matter how talented or idolised, should put the club's needs first. With Gardner and JOD unavailable, Busslinger not ready, Buku being exposed against the bigger-bodied KPFs and Keath still a shaky proposition after injury there's a case for simply telling Naughton that he's playing CHB for a few weeks. After that, it's back to the forward line.

What about the longer term?
I was originally of the view that he'd have been better as a defender but after a year or two went into developing him as a forward I switched to the view that too much had been invested and it was too late to change. He has come to embrace the challenge of being a KPF and apparently loves the role. He has also lost years of opportunity to develop his defensive skills at AFL level. It's still not impossible to turn him into a KPD which is where all his junior years were spent, but everyone would have to believe it was worthwhile and get behind it, especially Naughton.

What I'd do would be to sit Naughton down in the off season (preferably LAST off season) discuss the problem of team balance and ask him where he wants to play. If he says key forward then I'd work with him on some success criteria and a pass mark for staying there. If he meets that, great - we'd have one of the AFL's most dangerous and productive forwards. If he can't (other than through injury), we have an agreement that he will play at least one full season as a CHB which is where his team currently needs him and where we can probably get the most benefit.

The discussion should also talk about how he goes about playing that KPF role. Playing stationary as a deep forward with May or Taylor hanging off him is probably not the way to do it. In my view he's better off as an adventurous CHF playing between half forward and the centre.

I take the point that JUH benefits from Naughton being in tandem with him on the forward line. Most weeks at least one of them will get off the leash. But JUH is now becoming a dangerous forward in his own right, and with Darcy ready to step in as (mostly) a key forward we probably wouldn't lose much. It also fast tracks Darcy. Certainly two or three weeks of Naughton in defence while JOD recovers could tell us a thing or two about that new forward dynamic.

There's also a bloke name Croft in the KPF/KPD pipeline, but perhaps that's for 2025 or 2026.

 

[doggiesin08]

Yeah that would be my plan, if the season falls to s**t. Bit too early to be swinging massive structural changes like that IMO. Marra, Darcy, Bedendo, Cody could be an interesting set up but it would rely on direct ball movement which we have just not figured out atm.

I’m seeing a lot of people looking to replace Naughty with Darcy in the current structure though - and Darcy, Lobb in the same forward line would just be hell on earth for forward pressure!

Agree with this. Darcy and Lobb in the same forward line just doesn’t work for me. If Naughton goes back I’d want to bring Bedendo in as a marking target who can still be useful when the ball hits the deck.

It will be interesting to see where Croft plays at VFL level this year. If the future forward line is Naughton, Jamarra, Darcy then there is no space for him. If Naughton goes back then maybe makes sense for Croft to stay forward. If English leaves and plan is for Darcy to develop into a #1 ruck then possibly we plan for Croft to be the KPF/2nd Ruck.

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

Right now after the first round and 2 years of evidence the benefits of Naughton playing CHB far outweigh the benefits of him playing forward... It is painfully obvious.
He moves back and suddenly we have that area of the ground sorted with Jones and Naughton our version of May and Lever.
It's driving me crazy that its not happening.

 

[Dogsman16]

Right now after the first round and 2 years of evidence the benefits of Naughton playing CHB far outweigh the benefits of him playing forward... It is painfully obvious.
He moves back and suddenly we have that area of the ground sorted with Jones and Naughton our version of May and Lever.
It's driving me crazy that its not happening.

What evidence are you referring to?

He’a played about one solitary half of football in the defence in the past 6 seasons (North 2023) and even that didn’t go so well.

Our lack of intercepting is pretty heavily determined by our absolute piss poor pressure that we put on the ball carrier (record numbers of opposition uncontested marks speaks truth to this).

We have several potential KPD options to develop including O’Donnell, Croft, Busslinger. It’s not as if the cupboards bare in the future.

Not to mention the importance he has upforward in terms of forward pressure, Jamarras development and taking the best defender.

Personel is not the biggest problem we have down back, it’s the game style and zone structure. Naughton doesn’t just automatically solve these issues.

 

[doggies ftw]

Right now after the first round and 2 years of evidence the benefits of Naughton playing CHB far outweigh the benefits of him playing forward... It is painfully obvious.
He moves back and suddenly we have that area of the ground sorted with Jones and Naughton our version of May and Lever.
It's driving me crazy that it’s not happening.

What’s your strategy to replace 50 goals for a team that struggles to score as it is?

 

[RedWhite&Blue]

What’s your strategy to replace 50 goals for a team that struggles to score as it is?

Good point but I've always looked at defence being the most important area of the ground to get right.
And Naughton is the obvious candidate to get that right.
He might kick 30-45 a year, but, as a CHB, he might save half that and generate 20% more rebounds through intercept marks which catch the opposition on the hop and ends up in us getting cheap easy goals out the back like every team seems to be doing to us with frustrating regularity. Launching scoring forays from the backline is what we need to improve.
Whoever takes his spot forward will be benefitting from more space and more rebound from defensive 50's coming their way.
Our sh1thouse defence means that the midfielders have to run back more often to defend so then fatigue becomes an issue for them. By extension you'd think we'd get more goals kicked by the onballers with Naughton back...
I'm just spitballing but moving the Naughton magnet would have so many flow on effects that you can argue the case either way but what is happening now isn't working.

 

[LondonBulldog]

What’s your strategy to replace 50 goals for a team that struggles to score as it is?

Firstly, to Dogwatch, the club should never be asking where a player wants to play. He should play wherever the coaches fill fit, it's a team game and unless all have the mentality you will never be totally successful.

Doggies ftw, you don't know unless you try. I think Jamarra would improve being number 1 dog, Darcy is ready to explode and Weightman would love the extra space to play a lead up forward role, like Jamie Elliot.

I not even sure where his best spot is. Yet sitting back in the goal square, getting a bath and not being moved up the field is poor coaching.

 

[doggies ftw]

Good point but I've always looked at defence being the most important area of the ground to get right.
And Naughton is the obvious candidate to get that right.
He might kick 30-45 a year, but, as a CHB, he might save half that and generate 20% more rebounds through intercept marks which catch the opposition on the hop and ends up in us getting cheap easy goals out the back like every team seems to be doing to us with frustrating regularity. Launching scoring forays from the backline is what we need to improve.
Whoever takes his spot forward will be benefitting from more space and more rebound from defensive 50's coming their way.
Our sh1thouse defence means that the midfielders have to run back more often to defend so then fatigue becomes an issue for them. By extension you'd think we'd get more goals kicked by the onballers with Naughton back...
I'm just spitballing but moving the Naughton magnet would have so many flow on effects that you can argue the case either way but what is happening now isn't working.

I get where you’re coming from but if we’re looking at real numbers here it’s not 30-45 it’s on avg 63 goals we’re trying to replace a season. 189 direct goals and goal assists across 3 seasons forward.

That is a LOT of goals for him to make up from defence. That’s before factoring his marks up the ground at CHF that indirectly lead to scoring shots, him being pretty much our best forward 50 tackler & pressure player which directly and indirectly leads to more scoring shots. Him taking the #1 defender off Marra which indirectly leads to more scoring shots, him usually not getting outmarked which indirectly leads to more scoring shots.

If we had a player who could make up for that, he’d sure as s**t already be in the team already

 

[doggies ftw]

Firstly, to Dogwatch, the club should never be asking where a player wants to play. He should play wherever the coaches fill fit, it's a team game and unless all have the mentality you will never be totally successful.

Doggies ftw, you don't know unless you try. I think Jamarra would improve being number 1 dog, Darcy is ready to explode and Weightman would love the extra space to play a lead up forward role, like Jamie Elliot.

I not even sure where his best spot is. Yet sitting back in the goal square, getting a bath and not being moved up the field is poor coaching.

That maybe so but these things are still all assumptions, what we do have is a tall forward who contributes an avg of 63 goals per season to our tally. Thats not an assumption.

I completely agree on your last point though it’s poor coaching. He looked like Wayne Carey in the preseason in a genuine CHF role, must have been what 8 goals, 30 touches and 15 odd marks across two games. Admittedly against poor opposition but still - why did we move away from this?

It’s clear he’s a CHF, and a bloody good one - just play him there

 

[Senor Ed]

What’s your strategy to replace 50 goals for a team that struggles to score as it is?

Naughton being out of the 50 will also create goal scoring opportunities, its not a simple subtract 50.

 

[doggies ftw]

Naughton being out of the 50 will also create goal scoring opportunities, it’s not a simple subtract 50.

Is it going to create more than we lose though? If so how? What’s the strategy

 

[Senor Ed]

That maybe so but these things are still all assumptions, what we do have is a tall forward who contributes an avg of 63 goals per season to our tally. Thats not an assumption.

I completely agree on your last point though it’s poor coaching. He looked like Wayne Carey in the preseason in a genuine CHF role, must have been what 8 goals, 30 touches and 15 odd marks across two games. Admittedly against poor opposition but still - why did we move away from this?

It’s clear he’s a CHF, and a bloody good one - just play him there

100% agree. Naughton is not a stay inside the 50 forward, he needs to roam up the wings to get hands on the ball. I'm not sure what's happened to the days where he was free to roam and take hangers all over the ground.

 

[Senor Ed]

Is it going to create more than we lose though? If so how? What’s the strategy

How many times do we see JUH, Naughton, Weightman and Lobb contest for the same ball in the air. Potentially one less big target up there will allow the other forwards an opportunity to compete against their opponent and not a teammate & 2 opponents.

Naughton going back also allows for our 3rd defender to play that role and not be completely undersized

 

[doggies ftw]

How many times do we see JUH, Naughton, Weightman and Lobb contest for the same ball in the air. Potentially one less big target up there will allow the other forwards an opportunity to compete against their opponent and not a teammate & 2 opponents.

Yeah I get that but we need to fix the issue fundamentally, I don’t see Curnow, McKay and De Koning competing against each other in the air. Take Naughty out and the other 3 are still competing against each other and it’s still an issue.

Plus we have the exact same issue at the other end of the ground which led to multiple goals out the back on the weekend, so if Naughty doesn’t compete against Marra and Lobb he’ll just compete against Jones in the backline - which is even more detrimental to the team.

This is a fundamental coaching issue that *s us at both ends of the ground, I’d rather fix the problem than move the problem