Academies

[briztoon]

We finished 16th and got pick 5. We should have had pick 3. That has happened every year we've finished low on the ladder due to academies.

Few years back, We had pick 4 pushed down to 5 and chose the best player in Campbell but Sydney who overlooked him matched the bid so we get pick 6 and they got 4 AND 5.

AFL need to force matching to be with a pick in the same round as the bid maximum 10 spots behind. If you don't have one you miss out or have to trade in. If you have made a 1st round selection and don't pick your academy players you lose your rights if they are bid on later in that round. No double dipping.

We bottomed out when GWS and GC were brought in to the competition, with compromised drafts, and a couple of years of the best 17 year olds being pulled out of the draft entirely.

Spent a decade outside the 8.

Every team cops a whack for “the good of the game”.

You’re hardly alone in what you’re going through.

How do think the clubs at the bottom when Tassie is brought in are going to feel.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

They haven't changed the rule because they are a bunch of corrupt and lazy campaigners.

It's actually not complex at all. If the family has a football background then there should be no priority access to that kid. Draw a line and say if the father has played 1 AFL game then that player goes into the open pool.

Rather than administrate the academies themselves the AFL choose to delegate the responsibility to the northern academies. And the reason they don't do it themselves is because they know how s**t they are at administering anything and that it will cost more if they did. And the northern clubs won't administer the academy if they don't get anything out of it.

That's a bit excessive.
But if they qualify for FS, that should be the end of it

 

[briztoon]

Not even X players. Couldn't just have a look at who are the best under 15s in Victoria now and hire their parents in some BS job to relocate and the player is theirs. I don't think it's being rigged like that yet. They don't need to with so much talent coming in. I also don't think that those clubs are necessarily doing any rorts for fs players it's just that the player lives there so is as able to join.

However there needs to be at minimum we can stop players that are from football backgrounds. They can join the academy but be ineligible for the bidding system.

Genuinely NOT possible under current rules, as the players family has to have resided for 5 consecutive years.

So we’d have to bring in the top U12’s in such a scenario.

We’ve already had a couple of kids from our academy get drafted by other clubs, because they hadn’t lived in our academy zone long enough.

 

[briztoon]

M

Mate, North play one or two games a year at the G.

Still more than us most years.

 

[briztoon]

We finished 16th and got pick 5. We should have had pick 3. That has happened every year we've finished low on the ladder due to academies.

Also, more of your push backed picks have been from high end father son kids, not Northern academy kids. AND one of those academy kids was NGA to a VIC club, not a Northern academy kid.

There’s also been high end compensation picks that have pushed teams back.

And one draft, 2019, where there was a beginning of first round priority pick.

Again, most of your complaints are based on a fallacy and not reality.

 

[Val Keating]

Still more than us most years.

Well you do get real home ground advantage that Melbourne based clubs don’t have, considering we all play each other at neutral grounds, we only get in when we play an interstate team.

 

[briztoon]

This must be weird for you lot, it’s weird for me. I rarely leave the North board, I can’t remember a time that a oppo supporter posted a thread on our board, add to that there’s lions supporters posting, * knows how they got wind of it.

I probably should have minded my own business and stayed on the north board, but I love the father/son tradition.

I read most teams draft threads. Have occasionally posted in the North draft thread before. Have posted in the Hawks father son thread here as well, in previous years.

 

[briztoon]

Well you do get real home ground advantage that Melbourne based clubs don’t have, considering we all play each other at neutral grounds, we only get in when we play an interstate team.

Ask the Tigers if they believe Marvel stadium is a neutral ground.

 

[briztoon]

It was a good post… I think Briztoon searches for Cooper Hodge posts as he seems to be stuck in very one of them, being hard core.

No, someone else spread the word about this thread for the lols, and I am home sick with Covid, so needed some entertainment.

 

[briztoon]

First round picks is semantics.
Sydney has 5 academy picks in their top 23 this year. Heaney, Mills, Gulden, Blakey and Campbell. That is a huge leg up in my eyes.
Particularly when they can package picks and get two top 5 picks in a year (Campbell and McDonald)

And many Victorian clubs, including yours, have benefited from raiding the Northern clubs for “home sick” players, and paying significant unders with later draft picks.

You’re complaining about the only one legitimate advantage the Northern clubs have, without acknowledging any of the inherent advantages the Vic clubs have.

As our CEO mentioned last year, Victorian clubs have over 60% of their lists drafted from their home state. Where as the Northern clubs have less than 25% of their lists drafted from their home state.

 

[Val Keating]

I read most teams draft threads. Have occasionally posted in the North draft thread before. Have posted in the Hawks father son thread here as well, in previous years.

I bet you have. This is rare for me. I generally stick to the North board because I don’t think oppo supporters couldn’t give a s**t about my opinion on anything about their club.

This is different, the Northern academies are a rort. I believe in an even playing field.

 

[Dewnior]

That's a bit excessive.
But if they qualify for FS, that should be the end of it

No. The northern academies should only get priority access to kids they brought into their system that would not have otherwise played AFL, definitely not sons of footballers (whether that be locally or ex-pat. These kids should go into the open draft like every other kid.

By all means try and hide them as best they can but the northern academies should in no way gain access to them via a bidding system. The draft is compromised enough as it is.

For all those arguing "but our team has to travel more" that's all well and good and should be addressed separately. The Vic clubs could easily play games interstate against each other but the AFL want to maximise $$$ and the Melb fans will be up in arms.

 

[HedgeFund]

I believe in an even playing field.

So when North get on a plane every second week to play away games…..will the playing field then be even?

 

[HedgeFund]

No. The northern academies should only get priority access to kids they brought into their system that would not have otherwise played AFL, definitely not sons of footballers (whether that be locally or ex-pat. These kids should go into the open draft like every other kid.

By all means try and hide them as best they can but the northern academies should in no way gain access to them via a bidding system. The draft is compromised enough as it is.

For all those arguing "but our team has to travel more" that's all well and good and should be addressed separately. The Vic clubs could easily play games interstate against each other but the AFL want to maximise $$$ and the Melb fans will be up in arms.

So you’re happy for things to be uneven in some areas (which benefit us), but not happy for them to be uneven in other areas (which don’t)?

 

[extractasam]

And many Victorian clubs, including yours, have benefited from raiding the Northern clubs for “home sick” players, and paying significant unders with later draft picks.

You’re complaining about the only one legitimate advantage the Northern clubs have, without acknowledging any of the inherent advantages the Vic clubs have.

As our CEO mentioned last year, Victorian clubs have over 60% of their lists drafted from their home state. Where as the Northern clubs have less than 25% of their lists drafted from their home state.

You realise whenever there’s a homesick player the vic clubs have 9 other teams to compete with for their services. Even if the academy players went into the open pool you would only be competing with the suns come contract time, if that player was homesick wanting to return to QLD

 

[mpal6]

I bet you have. This is rare for me. I generally stick to the North board because I don’t think oppo supporters couldn’t give a s**t about my opinion on anything about their club.

This is different, the Northern academies are a rort. I believe in an even playing field.

Even playing field = pure first round draft.
No father son, academy, NGA, priority picks. Nothing.

I don't buy this tradition/romance angle at all, if the son is that desperate to play for father's club he can always ask for a trade even after the first year or first 2 years when his initial contract is up. Horne-Francis did it, players get to go exactly where they want to go these days and the incumbent club just has to live with it.

I'll be more than happy to give up Levi Ashcroft next year and let him go wherever he gets drafted as long as every other club does not have father sons or academy or priority pick in the first round going forward.

 

[mpal6]

You realise whenever there’s a homesick player the vic clubs have 9 other teams to compete with for their services. Even if the academy players went into the open pool you would only be competing with the suns come contract time, if that player was homesick wanting to return to QLD

Bolded bit is the key. Rarely happens, players are more likely to stick around in Victoria rotating between clubs as their home base is set. It provides them post-footy career opportunities as well, much higher than what's available in QLD.

 

[Val Keating]

Even playing field = pure first round draft.
No father son, academy, NGA, priority picks. Nothing.

I don't buy this tradition/romance angle at all, if the son is that desperate to play for father's club he can always ask for a trade even after the first year or first 2 years when his initial contract is up. Horne-Francis did it, players get to go exactly where they want to go these days and the incumbent club just has to live with it.

I'll be more than happy to give up Levi Ashcroft next year and let him go wherever he gets drafted as long as every other club does not have father sons or academy or priority pick in the first round going forward.

I can’t think of a team that’s won the premiership in the last 20 years that hasn’t had a priority pick or academy players.

Personally I love the father son tradition, my point is that sons of ex AFL players should not qualify for academies. It’s common sense.

 

[HedgeFund]

I can’t think of a team that’s won the premiership in the last 20 years that hasn’t had a priority pick or academy players.

Personally I love the father son tradition, my point is that sons of ex AFL players should not qualify for academies. It’s common sense.

I can think of several.

Geelong 2022, 2011, 2009 & 2007 had none.

Melbourne in 2021 had none.

Richmond in 2020 & 2019 had none.

Sydney in 2012 and 2005 had none


So that’s 9 of the past 20 flags won without an academy player or priority pick playing.

 

[Val Keating]

I can think of several.

Geelong 2022, 2011, 2009 & 2007 had none.

Melbourne in 2021 had none.

Richmond in 2020 & 2019 had none.

Sydney in 2012 and 2005 had none


So that’s 9 of the past 20 flags won without an academy player or priority pick playing.

Richmond & Melbourne both had priority picks, they just traded them.

 

[Lawsy]

I can think of several.

Geelong 2022, 2011, 2009 & 2007 had none.

Melbourne in 2021 had none.

Richmond in 2020 & 2019 had none.

Sydney in 2012 and 2005 had none


So that’s 9 of the past 20 flags won without an academy player or priority pick playing.

Plenty of critical Father/Son pieces in the Geelong teams, Brayshaw was a compensation pick 3 for them losing Frawley.

Sydney and Richmond were effectively assembled teams with via the draft and trades without a leg up. Fair play to them.

 

[briztoon]

I bet you have. This is rare for me. I generally stick to the North board because I don’t think oppo supporters couldn’t give a s**t about my opinion on anything about their club.

This is different, the Northern academies are a rort. I believe in an even playing field.

Until you sacked him, North had more top 10 drafted academy kids on your clubs list, than the Lions do.

I’m guessing you were pretty loud on the North board, that North didn’t deserve to have access to Tarryn Thomas.

As I’ve said many times in this thread, there are many inequities in this competition that benefit all Victorian teams, that none of the Northern academies benefit from.

 

[H00t]

Plenty of critical Father/Son pieces in the Geelong teams, Brayshaw was a compensation pick 3 for them losing Frawley.

Sydney and Richmond were effectively assembled teams with via the draft and trades without a leg up. Fair play to them.

Tigers had priority picks and Swans had cola allowance.

All have had a specific leg up on the competition. Pretty much needed these days to compete with the top teams. Very hard to get to the top without some form of luck/advantage.

 

[briztoon]

By all means try and hide them as best they can but the northern academies should in no way gain access to them via a bidding system. The draft is compromised enough as it is.

Another fallacy.

For Northern academies to have priority access to a kid, and be able to match a bid, that kid has to make the U18 Championship Allies squad.

If a kid doesn’t make the Allies squad, that kid is in the open draft.

We can’t hide kids.

 

[briztoon]

You realise whenever there’s a homesick player the vic clubs have 9 other teams to compete with for their services. Even if the academy players went into the open pool you would only be competing with the suns come contract time, if that player was homesick wanting to return to QLD

If only it actually worked like that. Player nominates which club they want to join, then we’re left dealing for whatever picks they hold.

If we could trade a player to which ever club offered the best deal, in terms of compensation, that would be better.