Women's Footy AFC GET Women's Team

[1970crow]

It's the talented players I was referring to. Those with a choice, those with prospects however slim. Take an SANFL club for instance. Clubs have 70-80 kids going through their U/18 program in a given season, same numbers in their U/16 program plus development squads at U/15, U/14 and U/13 level. Also country squads. Hundreds of kids every season. All dreaming of getting drafted and thinking they're a chance. Even if they actually like running, surfing, boxing etc better. The money on offer is the biggest advantage AFL has over other sports. It's natural that people gravitate towards sports that offer the best opportunities.

These kids existed striving to make state teams, league teams etc prior to their being a large financial incentive. Want a job that keep you fit for footy, be a garbage collector.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

is that how you think the modern AFL developed? You think that 10 year olds start playing with a conscious view of how much they'll earn if they make the big leagues. Would be interesting to find out how many just quit outright when they realise they're not going to get drafted and earn the big bucks. The AFL is built on a rich history of amateur and semi-professional footy. Just like probably every other sporting pinnacle across the globe. Reverse engineering hasn't proven itself for other women's competitions. See the complaints about earnings from female soccer and cricket players. The sports just don't generate the revenue to turn them into full time athletes. The AFL and women's footy may succeed where these have failed thus far, but it's folly to suggest this is a financial slam dunk or a certain success.

Sports are hundreds of years old and traditions developed during times when a women's role was to stay home to look after the kids

Golf and tennis has broken down the barriers years ago. Surely other sports will follow suit.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

These kids existed striving to make state teams, league teams etc prior to their being a large financial incentive. Want a job that keep you fit for footy, be a garbage collector.

I don't know what to tell you. Sport has become a legitimate career. Just because people 50 years ago played for the sheer love of the game bears no relevance.

Creating the elite level competition first is doing things the opposite way no doubt, but it's the only way it can happen today.

 

[Sanders]

Sports are hundreds of years old and traditions developed during times when a women's role was to stay home to look after the kids

Golf and tennis has broken down the barriers years ago. Surely other sports will follow suit.

Why is it do you think netball isn't more popular?

It has massive participation rates, long history, professional competition etc

What do you think is holding it back?

 

[Mego Red]

Just out of interest, do you think that sponshorship dollars are infinite by nature. I don't doubt that there will be a female centric enterprise who will jump on board as a major partner of the women's team. But you have to ask the question as to how many dollars are out there that won't sponsor the men's team that we've approached who will turn around and sponsor the women. I guess it will be easier early as the interest will be high. But sponsors are still looking for value/exposure etc. I wouldn't be creating a business plan underpinned by sponsorship or continual govt funding.

This is a very new asset for the AFL to sell.

I don't doubt each club will have a 250k Guernsey sponsor and the league will have an overarching sponsor.

I do a LOT of work in sponsorship with non profits - in my case, it's around cultural events, but the case is similar.

Finances won't be the issue. A short life span before it runs out of momentum might be.

In any event, we want to be in this business and we want our state competitor not to be. We want it for similar reasons that we have an indigenous program and a foundation doing charitable outreach. It's the right thing to do and it shows that we're a significant player within our industry.

 

[Sanders]

I don't know what to tell you. Sport has become a legitimate career.

No it hasn't

Only a very, very tiny proportion of sports that happen to catch the viewing publics fancy have career prospects

Sport is not a career, a couple of games are. Most aren't.

Sports men and women don't have a right to a career unless someone wants to watch and pay money for the privilege

 

[Allefgib]

It's no different to AFL.

The reason so many talented teenage athletes head down the AFL path rather than athletics, cricket, basketball etc is the sparkly trinkets on offer. 100 kids get drafted every year, wages way ahead of other sports, chance to build a career.

And I think we all typically love the guy playing for the love of the game - and are a little envious that he gets to make a living doing something he, and we all, love so much. I certainly enjoy going to watch guys truly passionate about footy over guys like Brad Moran

The difference between a passionate div 3 ammos player and a Crows player though is how physically gifted he is to perform at the highest level. He can bring in the income.

Are you proposing sports that can't fund their own sparkly trinkets should be splashing them around as much as the AFL?

I'd assume the vast majority of the AFL players would still play footy on Saturday's, just have to get a job during the week, if sparkly trinkets were not on offer. I would be STAGGERED if 85% stopped playing.

 

[rocket18]

Why is it do you think netball isn't more popular?

It has massive participation rates, long history, professional competition etc

What do you think is holding it back?

Netball Australia needs to setup a national mens competition so all the young boys can have role models to look up to.

Its not enough there are local amateur competitions they can play in, they need a national league.

Imagine once they have played, that enthusiasm and passion will see them get along and support our state side.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Why is it do you think netball isn't more popular?

It has massive participation rates, long history, professional competition etc

What do you think is holding it back?

Financially?

A few of things. The game is not exciting enough to watch and doesn't translate well to television.

I think the way the game is set up is an inherent weakness
1. Teams take it in turns to get a centre pass
2. Too difficult to get the ball back from the other team
2. The percentage of scoring is too high

Once a team is ahead there is rarely a comeback. Teams find it difficult to get on a roll because every second centre pass the opposition gets the ball back. You can't dominate possession for periods of games and get on a roll the way teams can in AFL. It means most games are decided early, except for the odd occasion.

The rules benefit the team in possession too strongly. Defenders can't breathe on them, can't get within three feet, can only try to intercept the ball with their 'outside hand' - given that most passes are only a few metres anyway it makes it too difficult to force turnovers. Watching games it is almost non-stop whistles for infractions from defenders. The game doesn't flow.

AFL teams will go inside 50 on 50+ occasions during a game and maybe if they're lucky kick a goal 15 times. Netball the percentage would be off the charts. Goals are almost inevitable - well, as close to inevitable as any sport in the world. There is little unknown (what might happen) therefore little excitement. Soccer is at the other end of the spectrum.

Shooting percentages are ridiculous. It's too easy to score a goal. It's too hard to turn the ball over. Only two people on each team are allowed to score. You are limited in where you can run. Rather than making it an exciting athletic contest, the rules of netball make it a restrained one with a carefully controlled environment.

That's all before even acknowledging what AFL has done brilliantly compared to other sports - focus on the consumer, turn players into fans, turn fans into money spenders, tailor everything for television.

 

[Allefgib]

This is a very new asset for the AFL to sell.

I don't doubt each club will have a 250k Guernsey sponsor and the league will have an overarching sponsor.

I do a LOT of work in sponsorship with non profits - in my case, it's around cultural events, but the case is similar.

Finances won't be the issue. A short life span before it runs out of momentum might be.

In any event, we want to be in this business and we want our state competitor not to be. We want it for similar reasons that we have an indigenous program and a foundation doing charitable outreach. It's the right thing to do and it shows that we're a significant player within our industry.

I'm most comfortable with your last paragraph than anything else I've heard. That's why I keep asking what it is that is being debated.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

And I think we all typically love the guy playing for the love of the game - and are a little envious that he gets to make a living doing something he, and we all, love so much. I certainly enjoy going to watch guys truly passionate about footy over guys like Brad Moran

The difference between a passionate div 3 ammos player and a Crows player though is how physically gifted he is to perform at the highest level. He can bring in the income.

Are you proposing sports that can't fund their own sparkly trinkets should be splashing them around as much as the AFL?

I'd assume the vast majority of the AFL players would still play footy on Saturday's, just have to get a job during the week, if sparkly trinkets were not on offer. I would be STAGGERED if 85% stopped playing.

I'm not saying that grassroots football would fall over if AFL players didn't get paid so much.

I'm saying that the most talented athletes would go down a different path if there was not the financial incentives on offer. It would probably mean that Victoria would actually provide a few cricketers for the Australia team rather than NSW doing all the heavy lifting.

At the moment no talented female athlete who wants to make a career out of sport would choose football, because they can't.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

No it hasn't

Only a very, very tiny proportion of sports that happen to catch the viewing publics fancy have career prospects

Sport is not a career, a couple of games are. Most aren't.

Sports men and women don't have a right to a career unless someone wants to watch and pay money for the privilege

Eventually women's football will need to stand on its own two feet

All that's happening now is an initial kickstart

 

[Allefgib]

I'm not saying that grassroots football would fall over if AFL players didn't get paid so much.

I'm saying that the most talented athletes would go down a different path if there was not the financial incentives on offer. It would probably mean that Victoria would actually provide a few cricketers for the Australia team rather than NSW doing all the heavy lifting.

At the moment no talented female athlete who wants to make a career out of sport would choose football, because they can't.

Yup and I'm supportive of seeing the woman's team go ahead - I just wanted to see some of the points in the debate stated more clearly.

This branch of the conversation was actually about Sanders, and I shared it but wanted more time to think it through, discomfit with some of Hank's comments about wheelchair tennis players not wanting to participate if the big international comps and shiny trinkets were not on offer. I don't like it and I don't actually think it would be as significant a factor as that. I'd be very disappointed if that was the case.

Shiny trinkets cost money. Where is it going to come from? That is many others argument.

 

[Allefgib]

Eventually women's football will need to stand on its own two feet

All that's happening now is an initial kickstart

Which goes back to the question I asked yesterday. How long does it need support before it's left alone to see if it can stand on its own two feet?

 

[Alex99]

I don't know about anyone else but I never played sport as an avenue towards a career.

I played for the love of it and continued to play for the love of it well past the realisation of a profession career eventuating.

 

[Slippery Pete]

Sports men and women don't have a right to a career unless someone wants to watch and pay money for the privilege

Ronda Rousey said something similar in an interview recently.
Some agenda-driven reporter asked if her success was a step toward women earning more in sport.

Her response was along the lines of, no, and nor should it be - I earn a stack of money because a lot of people want to watch me.

The look on the reporter's face was priceless.

We'll soon find out if there's a market for this and if there is, not one person here will begrudge it, just like they don't begrudge Ronda Rousey.

Just don't use my money finding out it's a failure.

And the poster here who mentioned disabled sports proves the exact point of contention. Disabled sport is supported - and should be supported - by public benevolence.

Adult, able-bodied women should not be the recipient of this benevolence. If there is no market for the concept, if it can't stand on its own two feet - GTFO.

 

[Alex99]

Which goes back to the question I asked yesterday. How long does it need support before it's left alone to see if it can stand on its own two feet?

12 months.

After that, if it can not start to make a profit and pay its own way, the simply reality is - it's a hobby.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Which goes back to the question I asked yesterday. How long does it need support before it's left alone to see if it can stand on its own two feet?

How long do the Sydney Swans need support?

Thirty plus years and counting but clearly overall there are benefits to AFL for pumping this money in (tv rights, national profile, bigger sponsorship). It is worth the spend.

Women's football will get supported as long as there are benefits to doing so. It goes back to what I mentioned the other day. The whole push is about creating consumers. There will be more measures other than crowds, tv ratings for the games themselves.

 

[Allefgib]

Ronda Rousey said something similar in an interview recently.
Some agenda-driven reporter asked if her success was a step toward women earning more in sport.

Her response was along the lines of, no, and nor should it be - I earn a stack of money because a lot of people want to watch me.

The look on the reporter's face was priceless.

We'll soon find out if there's a market for this and if there is, not one person here will begrudge it, just like they don't begrudge Ronda Rousey.

Just don't use my money finding out it's a failure.

And the poster here who mentioned disabled sports proves the exact point of contention. Disabled sport is supported - and should be supported - by public benevolence.

Adult, able-bodied women should not be the recipient of this benevolence. If there is no market for the concept, if it can't stand on its own two feet - GTFO.

Been thinking of looking for Ronda quotes as clearly she brings in the bucks. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[dogs105]

Why is it do you think netball isn't more popular?

It has massive participation rates, long history, professional competition etc

What do you think is holding it back?

I personally think the game has flaws which make it difficult to get into without effort. And that bloody whistle every 3 seconds!!

 

[Allefgib]

How long do the Sydney Swans need support?

Thirty plus years and counting but clearly overall there are benefits to AFL for pumping this money in (tv rights, national profile, bigger sponsorship). It is worth the spend.

Women's football will get supported as long as there are benefits to doing so. It goes back to what I mentioned the other day. The whole push is about creating consumers. There will be more measures other than crowds, tv ratings for the games themselves.

Okay - so your point is the AFL are doing it for good business reasons? Others are just asking for them to be explained. Can anyone explain them?

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Okay - so your point is the AFL are doing it for good business reasons? Others are just asking for them to be explained. Can anyone explain them?

Already have

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/afc-want-womens-team.1119187/page-5#post-42357376

 

[Mego Red]

I'm most comfortable with your last paragraph than anything else I've heard. That's why I keep asking what it is that is being debated.

Yeah. I DO think it is essential to have a serious conversation around the business case, to ensure that there is viability to it and it doesn't become a financial burden on us or the league.

But we should be open minded to the real reasons for doing it - what it means to the social value of our brand and the inclusiveness and positioning of our club.

 

[Sanders]

Financially?

A few of things. The game is not exciting enough to watch and doesn't translate well to television.

It's not a few things. It is this, and pretty much this alone.

It is not, intrinsically, a game that translates onto the pro-entertainment platform.

There are lots of games in that boat, that inherently are not suited to marketing up. This is an insurmountable problem as has been shown many times in the past

 

[Sanders]

Yup and I'm supportive of seeing the woman's team go ahead - I just wanted to see some of the points in the debate stated more clearly.

This branch of the conversation was actually about Sanders, and I shared it but wanted more time to think it through, discomfit with some of Hank's comments about wheelchair tennis players not wanting to participate if the big international comps and shiny trinkets were not on offer. I don't like it and I don't actually think it would be as significant a factor as that. I'd be very disappointed if that was the case.

Shiny trinkets cost money. Where is it going to come from? That is many others argument.

Shiny trinkets are demand led. No demand no shiny s**t