Player Watch #18: Alex Rance

[Ned_Flanders]

Can't think of an AA player leaving at the top of his game to become a father, lawyer, coach.
It's his life and he needs to do what's best for him. But, nah. I'd be disappointed.
Regardless of the reason a player leaves, when he's our only current AA, I'm disappointed.
We don't have the talent to spare.

Happened a lot in the old days, guys left the VFL for careers pretty often

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'm fairly certain the so called rule about not being able to play competitive sport while being a JW is bull s**t.

http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/quotes/sport-competitive.php

As I posted before, it's been discussed a lot on the net regarding Williams, and she isn't baptized for this very reason

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Out of curiosity, would we be cool if Rance wanted to quit footy to travel around the world snorting coke of Brazilian yoga instructors arses?

 

[TigerTime3]

Out of curiosity, would we be cool if Rance wanted to quit footy to travel around the world snorting coke of Brazilian yoga instructors arses?

I know you're trying to say it shouldn't matter why he retires, but I think it does matter why. I worry Rance gives up an extremely promising and fulfilling career as a champion sportsman when in 5-10 years time he might seriously regret his own decision. The first couple of years in a religion are the most influential because it's all new so you haven't asked all your questions, you're yet to overcome the honeymoon period, and it's a matter of life or death. You're faced with choosing between your current life and the life you 'should' be living. He could easily regret such a decision in the future, especially with thoughts of 'what could have been' with his career trajectory and how he might feel if Richmond go on to win a premiership (or lose a Grand Final after he retired).

 

[Rumballs]

Few big issues with that

Firstly in Australia pastors earn **** all. You don't head up a large evangelical money machine as a pastor, it tends to be small community churches.

Secondly religion doesn't equal ignorance. As much as churches have stifled development, they have enhanced it much more. As a start, learn about what the monks in Ireland did in the dark ages.

Also you are aware nearly all of our best private schools are run by churches? If religion fostered ignorance, why would it be the home of our best centers of learning?

At the end of the day hwoever, its rances decision, not ours.

Agree about the earnings in Australia for the most part, but there are a few evangelical charismatics earning a pretty penny.

And yes, religion doesn't inherently equal ignorance. Christianity helped preserve some learning, particularly in the monastic system. But Christianity contributed to the dark ages through the loss of the Greek classics. It was only due to the reconquista of Spain and the interactions with Asia Minor Islam that they were recovered, so I don't think you can have that one.

Since the late renaissance, Christianity has actually started to inhibit learning. From Galileo to Darwin, breakthroughs have often faced resistance by clerical authorities. Consequentially advanced centers of knowledge has become increasingly secular, such that now, practically all of the best colleges in the world are now non-denominational.

The prominence of private secondary schooling is largely historical accident. The most prestigious are largely grammar schools. They inherited their position from their English role models and has now become ingrained through socio-economic factors. But their curriculum is almost exclusively determined by secular education bureaucracies.

And as said above, our best centres of learning are at the tertiary level. None of the Big 8 have religion form any part of their pedagogy or research.

But yes, it's his life and he needs to be sure that he is doing the right thing as he sees it.

 

[Rumballs]

Out of curiosity, would we be cool if Rance wanted to quit footy to travel around the world snorting coke of Brazilian yoga instructors arses?

For him maybe. For me, no.

 

[Livonski]

Out of curiosity, would we be cool if Rance wanted to quit footy to travel around the world snorting coke of Brazilian yoga instructors arses?

I'd be equally as filthy.

As I said, it's not about the alternative, it's the departure that is wrong, and selfish.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I know you're trying to say it shouldn't matter why he retires, but I think it does matter why. I worry Rance gives up an extremely promising and fulfilling career as a champion sportsman when in 5-10 years time he might seriously regret his own decision. The first couple of years in a religion are the most influential because it's all new so you haven't asked all your questions, you're yet to overcome the honeymoon period, and it's a matter of life or death. You're faced with choosing between your current life and the life you 'should' be living. He could easily regret such a decision in the future, especially with thoughts of 'what could have been' with his career should Richmond go on to win a premiership (or lose a Grand Final after he retired).

I think the issue is your earlier post, you can't respect this decision because it's based upon religion

If you were to say you don't understand, or don't agree, that's one thing, but to have no respect for a person to make a hard considered and though out decision, that's harsh

What is he actually doing wrong if he leaves?

He's honored his contract, he's given us 100% on the field, he's not made an off the cuff reactionary decision

 

[Rumballs]

Okay Rancey,

It's me again Timmy. It's all good i've remembered my name now. At first I was an unbeliever. There was a small buzzing noise somewhere off in the distance. Nothing to worry about. It reminded me of the time in my office, when I honestly thought I was going mad. I swore black and blue that voices were talking to me. It had been going on for hours. I tried to chat casually to my colleague about it, dropping the odd "what was that?, or hey mate can you hear that?. I mean I hadn't had a beer for three days, I was playing footy at the time. Obviously not to your standard, and I never much liked being "down back", but I wanted to stay sharp and I was throwing back wheat grass shots at least once a fortnight. As it turned out on that occasion, I had left my I-pod on in my suit jacket pocket. It had been going all day. The biggest shame of it in the end was that I had no tunes to listen to all the way home on the Blackburn bus that night.

But then the buzzing got louder. I mean surely it is just the delusional nature of the fans right. Some randomly generated conspiracy theory, where you stick your first pet name and first street together, and suddenly your a pr0n star called Woody Van Dieman right? So I thought I would ask one of my delusional Bigfooty mates. I thought to myself, Lance Uppercut is mad as a cut snake. He continually went on and on about the fact that Hirdy was bound to get off..... Surely not, I mean Surely. Anyways so there I was swilling tinnies with Lance, when he said to me - Timmy, why don't you check out Big Jehovah, that's always a source of good news. I mean a good source of news.

And so I did, and this is what I found.

Now Rancey Big Jehovah seems a good site. It appears to have a lot of quality information within it's forum strings. And might I add that I do want to say that I support your rights to your choices at all times. I will not hear one bad word said about your decisions, or any one else's for that matter, and as such I do not want to be misconstrued. This is an exploratory letter only. If I am to take Big Jehovah at face value, then I just want to ask if "Matttieu" is on the money....?

Alex, I have spent a lot of time in a direct sales role over the years, and I can make a mean cold call. I mean you can sit me down with the Yellow Pages, and I will smash out a quick fifty calls, easily getting up a random yet positive conversation with at least 17%. That's good conversion numbers my friend. The reason that I share this with you is I want to give you some quick and simple career advice. As a Jehovah's Witness, you will I believe, be making a lot of cold calls. So picking up a little 5 year contract at the Tigers to play footy until say 2020 or 2021, will give you a really great first impression when the door opens after you hit the door bell. I mean think about it. If you knocked on my door I would let you in anyway, but I am a rusted on Tigger. You end up knocking on the door of say a Norf supporter, and you will need all the help you can get.... Just Saying.

All the best,

Your Friend Timmy

You seriously need to post more.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'd be equally as filthy.

As I said, it's not about the alternative, it's the departure that is wrong, and selfish.

How so? Is he breaking his contract with us?

 

[Mr Magic]

Agree about the earnings in Australia for the most part, but there are a few evangelical charismatics earning a pretty penny.

And yes, religion doesn't inherently equal ignorance. Christianity helped preserve some learning, particularly in the monastic system. But Christianity contributed to the dark ages through the loss of the Greek classics. It was only due to the reconquista of Spain and the interactions with Asia Minor Islam that they were recovered, so I don't think you can have that one.

Since the late renaissance, Christianity has actually started to inhibit learning. From Galileo to Darwin, breakthroughs have often faced resistance by clerical authorities. Consequentially advanced centers of knowledge has become increasingly secular, such that now, practically all of the best colleges in the world are now non-denominational.

The prominence of private secondary schooling is largely historical accident. The most prestigious are largely grammar schools. They inherited their position from their English role models and has now become ingrained through socio-economic factors. But their curriculum is almost exclusively determined by secular education bureaucracies.

And as said above, our best centres of learning are at the tertiary level. None of the Big 8 have religion form any part of their pedagogy or research.

But yes, it's his life and he needs to be sure that he is doing the right thing as he sees it.

Using history as a guide how many have left their sport at their peak? Just walked away.

Bjorn Borg maybe but he achieved a hell of a lot by the time he walked away, multiple grand slams etc... Think his choices were different than Rances though.

Is this unusual because we think it is or is there a reason?

I would have thought Rance could play on for other reasons apart from money anyway. Like a premiership , achieving something with people that support you etc... that experience what you are experiencing , that can relate to you in at least one part of your life that helps you prosper as a participant in society

 

[TigerTime3]

I think the issue is your earlier post, you can't respect this decision because it's based upon religion

If you were to say you don't understand, or don't agree, that's one thing, but to have no respect for a person to make a hard considered and though out decision, that's harsh

What is he actually doing wrong if he leaves?

He's honored his contract, he's given us 100% on the field, he's not made an off the cuff reactionary decision

Not quite. I said respect is something to be earned and I would support him if I were close to him, and I'd be wishing him the very best in his life, but as a supporter I would not respect his decision to leave us. Partly due to religion but not entirely, as I've outlined in other posts. And I wouldn't respect decisions for a lot of other reasons either. I wouldn't respect an anti-vaxxer's decision and I wouldn't be arguing they should be respected if their kid ends up in hospital. That's the angle I was coming from when I said decisions shouldn't automatically be respected (in response to someone's post), and religion simply happens to fall into the category of things everyone should automatically respect. You're painting me unfairly IMO.

A slow-developing AA defender retiring at 25 years old is not giving us 100%.

 

[Rumballs]

Using history as a guide how many have left their sport at their peak? Just walked away.

Bjorn Borg maybe but he achieved a hell of a lot by the time he walked away. Think his choices were different than Rances though.

Is this unusual because we think it is or is there a reason?

It's unusual.
It would suck, he's our most important player.
It's his life. Like '74 said he's not breaking his contract.
Even if he was, if he felt that it was important that he devote his life to something else, we need to respect that.

But it would totally suck.

 

[Mr Magic]

Not quite. I said respect is something to be earned and I would support him if I were close to him, and I'd be wishing him the very best in his life, but as a supporter I would not respect his decision to leave us. Partly due to religion but not entirely, as I've outlined in other posts. And I wouldn't respect decisions for a lot of other reasons either. I wouldn't respect an anti-vaxxer's decision and I wouldn't be arguing they should be respect if their kid ends up in hospital. Trust me, religion isn't the thing that doesn't guarantee my respect. You're painting me unfairly IMO.

A slow-developing AA defender retiring at 25 years old is not giving us 100%.

what is a ant-vaxxer

 

[Mr Magic]

It's unusual.
It would suck, he's our most important player.
It's his life. Like '74 said he's not breaking his contract.
Even if he was, if he felt that it was important that he devote his life to something else, we need to respect that.

But it would totally suck.

Respect it if its the right decision for him and where he wants to go. But he is at an age where he can be mislead and is probably a little naive about the motivations of others in terms of their intent. I assume he had good parents and has little idea how devious some people can be apart from the odd stalker.


If I was Rance , speaking from experience, get a range of opinion from a dozen or so people from a broad range of different parts of society, with plenty of experience, that are independent from his personal circumstance at minimum

 

[Livonski]

How so? Is he breaking his contract with us?

Of course not.
My view is not based on contracts or money.
If football is just about that then you wouldn't see players busting their ring for their team mates. You wouldn't see players crying when they lose a granny. Players wouldn't get premiership tattoos, be best men at each others weddings or going into long term business together post footy.
It's because they bleed for each other during pre season and put their bodies on the line so that they can achieve something together.
So it's chucking in 6 or 7 years of that....for something else that he's got the rest of his life to devote to.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Agree about the earnings in Australia for the most part, but there are a few evangelical charismatics earning a pretty penny.

And yes, religion doesn't inherently equal ignorance. Christianity helped preserve some learning, particularly in the monastic system. But Christianity contributed to the dark ages through the loss of the Greek classics. It was only due to the reconquista of Spain and the interactions with Asia Minor Islam that they were recovered, so I don't think you can have that one.

Since the late renaissance, Christianity has actually started to inhibit learning. From Galileo to Darwin, breakthroughs have often faced resistance by clerical authorities. Consequentially advanced centers of knowledge has become increasingly secular, such that now, practically all of the best colleges in the world are now non-denominational.

The prominence of private secondary schooling is largely historical accident. The most prestigious are largely grammar schools. They inherited their position from their English role models and has now become ingrained through socio-economic factors. But their curriculum is almost exclusively determined by secular education bureaucracies.

And as said above, our best centres of learning are at the tertiary level. None of the Big 8 have religion form any part of their pedagogy or research.

But yes, it's his life and he needs to be sure that he is doing the right thing as he sees it.

The dark ages were not caused by the roman church, it was caused by the collapse of Roman Empire due to the failure of its economic system that had historically sustained the empire, and the eastern migrations. Loss of coin meant the institutions that sustained the economy, development, and learning became more and more isolated, and most ultimately collapsed. To be blunt, when you're struggling to feed your village, and your dealing with goth invasions, do you give a s**t about Pythagorean theory? Remember this wasn't just over 1-2 decades, but hundreds of years.

As for universities, again look at why they were originally created.

I know atheists hate all things religious, but some of the rewriting of history to make all church's "the great satan" is dishonest.

 

[TigerTime3]

what is a ant-vaxxer

An example would be someone who believes that vaccinations cause autism, so they refuse all vaccinations for their kids. Then they're shown evidence for why vaccinations are so important for preventing disease and they simply decide not to believe in it for one reason or another. And then their kids are at risk of getting horrible, preventable diseases.

 

[Rumballs]

Respect it if its the right decision for him and where he wants to go. But he is at an age where he can be mislead and is probably a little naive about the motivations of others in terms of their intent

Possibly, but he's not rushing into it. It sounds like he is taking his time. He has his family and friends around him.
Saying he is being manipulated or anything else is speculation and bias.

 

[Mr Magic]

An example would be someone who believes that vaccinations cause autism, so they refuse all vaccinations for their kids. Then they're shown evidence for why vaccinations are so important for preventing disease and they simply decide not to believe in it for one reason or another. And then their kids are at risk of getting horrible, preventable diseases.

I didn't realise vaxxer was to do with vaccinations

 

[Mr Magic]

Possibly, but he's not rushing into it. It sounds like he is taking his time. He has his family and friends around him.
Saying he is being manipulated or anything else is speculation and bias.

I am not saying he is this or that but it is possible. I have seen it and at his age.

Family and friends as a rule are not enough. You need people that are independent like I said. We could be talking about the dynamics of a relationship for better or worse between Rance and a number of others with different interests

Did you see the article about the dark side of pro football on news.com.au recently? Mother tried to claim this and that via various manouveures through a house purchase etc.. by her son to her .... This sort of abuse happens all the time and does not stop till you die. Even when you are a pensioner you are a wonderful target for some.


As you get older it is sad about the frequency of people fascinated by the control and manipulation of others to make their lives relevant in their own minds.

The truth is there are whole false industries in societies set up to redistribute wealth or gain from others completely separate from the free will of its people in general

 

[SpudsLoveChild]

I'm going a little nuts here.
We've got one post 'substantiating' AR joining JW with a link to a random dude claiming blahblahblah.

I call BULLSHIT!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Not quite. I said respect is something to be earned and I would support him if I were close to him, and I'd be wishing him the very best in his life, but as a supporter I would not respect his decision to leave us. Partly due to religion but not entirely, as I've outlined in other posts. And I wouldn't respect decisions for a lot of other reasons either. I wouldn't respect an anti-vaxxer's decision and I wouldn't be arguing they should be respected if their kid ends up in hospital. That's the angle I was coming from when I said in response to someone's post about the importance of automatically respecting someone's decision (a comfort religion often happens to attract). Trust me, religion isn't the thing that doesn't guarantee my respect. You're painting me unfairly IMO.

A slow-developing AA defender retiring at 25 years old is not giving us 100%.

The last sentence is curious

At 25 he has been with us 7 years. As an all Australian, he has performed for us. Yet this is not enough?

We as a club sack players after just one season. We force players into early retirement to manage our cap. We trade players to get a better one on our list.

All the player did was agree to enter the draft.

Rance has been on all of maybe $300k in recent years. But you still think he owes us more?

When is his debt to us repaid, next year, the year after, when he's thirty, or when we no longer need him.

Tbh, I suspect for most on this board, the latter is the answer.

We are pissed because we are possibly going to lose him at the peak of his powers, but that's our issue, not his

 

[TigerTime3]

I know atheists hate all things religious, but some of the rewriting of history to make all church's "the great satan" is dishonest.

What hypocrisy. And here you are trying to tell others not to paint groups of people with the same brush, let alone a negative one.

 

[Livonski]

Its wrong and Selfish in your mind.....because of what u want...you have never worried about what he mite want....THAT is selfish...Rance has done nothing Wrong...

It is in my mind (because it's my opinion!).
I just have an old fashioned view that we don't just get to do what we want. We have obligations. The younger generation don't seem to get this.
Everything that Alex has achieved to date has been largely thru his own efforts, but he couldn't have done any of it by himself. If he walks he damages a team situation that he is a significant part of.
And no, Rance has done nothing wrong. I reckon he's a champ and I love the way he's developed over the last 12 months.