Andrew Hilditch: The players let us down.

[Jimpson]

The selectors did make some good calls though

Persisting with Hussey
Dropping Midge for Adelaide and bringing him back for Perth
Playing Siddle instead of Bollinger
Bringing in Ryan Harris
Bringing back Haddin instead of Paine

Then again, did the selectors do well by picking them or did the players do well by performing? Can't have it both ways I spose, Hilditch seems to want to take the praise for the good calls but the bad ones must be the players' fault.

 

[The Passenger]

i reckon this team, made up entirely of players who didn't play in the ashes, would be a big chance of knocking off the Australian team

Nic Maddinson, Mark Cosgrove, Sean Marsh, Callum Ferguson, Andrew McDonald, Cameron White (c), Tim Paine (k), Steve O'Keefe, Trent Copeland, Clint McKay, Chris Swan. Mark Cameron (12).

Cameron in for Swan whilst he is injured with Luke Butterworth to 12th man, and Dave Hussey in for McDonald while he is injured. I honestly don't see anything between those two sides, and i would've had access to Usman Khawaja if not for Ponting's little finger.

And on the outside of those 14 you've got Chris Lynn as backup batsmen, Matthew Wade as a keeper, Nathan Hauritz as a spin option, and James Faulkner and Peter George as your back up quick bowlers, with Pattinson, Starc and Hazlewood showing plenty of potential but still limited by the number of games they have played in just at the moment, particularly this season with Starc the only one to have played a game (and he's only played one).

I reckon a third XI would be reasonably competitive in a game, although the batting would be fairly light on. But a bowling attack of Hauritz, Pattinson, George and Faulkner i reckon is no weaker than the bowling attack we've fielded for the last test.

Even a fouth XI attack of Krejza, Hazlewood, Magoffin and Cutting (i know all those three quick's are currently injured or recovering from injury)... ok now those lads would be outclassed by our current test line-up but not too the extent that you would expect between a test XI and a fourth XI....

so i reckon the talent is there, but i really don't think we are going in the right direction particularly with the bowling. Hilfenhaus is very unpenetrating and Siddle and Johnson are up and down like yo-yo's (particularly the latter)... Bollinger is ok, but isn't really going to be any more than an honest trier. I like Harris, but like Bollinger is an honest trier, although probably a level above Bolly. And he is also very injury prone.

Siddle has a future if he can start contributing more when he's isn't bowling so well. No one is at the top of their game every week, but he's downs are fairly pronounced. Obviously Johnson has a future if he can get it together. He's a genuine match winner. But the gulf between his best and worst is outrageous. It would've bordered on one of the worst 5-for's i can recall had he got there yesterday.

But as i've said in other threads, part of the problem with our quick bowling stocks is they are all the same. this isn't something the selectors can be put at fault for. i reckon the best bowler in the country on form at the moment is harris.... he isn't really that much better than George or Pattinson whom i had in a third XI

the spin situation isn't great, and there's not much the selectors can do about the lack of spinning stocks, but the ashes wasn't the time to start experimenting when Hauritz had provided us with the best option we've had and was a reliable performer. the time to start experimenting was post ashes with this tour of sri lanka.

 

[juddsentant517]

"I take responsibility for doing the best job I can possibly do for Australian cricket,"

This pretty much sums it up for me. It's not about you, it's about the country. There aren't too many people who are absolving criticism of the players, but the person who selects the players deserves as much criticism.

There are too many excuses as to why good players are not played and average players are played, the one that gets me the most is personality. Players are seemingly picked because of their like-ability rather than their skills.

I couldn't give a **** if Steve Smith brings joy in Slips, if he is good enough with the bat and ball, then that is all that matters. Regardless of how fat and unlikable Cosgrove is, he can bat, and that is much more important.

from behalf of JuddSentant517, please go away Hidditch

 

[Heisenberg_]

There players were shit.

And the selectors were equally as shit, he is an incompetent moron and to try and claim they did a good job when they picked out of form players and waiting for the series to be lost before actually picking an in form batsmen.
Not to mention the obsession with picking a left arm spinner, yet continue to ignore O'Keefe who is miles better then Doherty and Beer.

 

[The Passenger]

doherty - 3/306
beer - 1/110
north - 1/112
smith - 0/138
clarke - 0/13

our spinners - 5/679



most admit, i didn't realise it was that bad

somehow, i don't think hauritz would've done so poorly.

 

[Alpha1]

Sorry I agree with him, the players did let themselves down, do you excerpt the selectors to go out their and hold their hands?

 

[The Passenger]

Sorry I agree with him, the players did let themselves down, do you excerpt the selectors to go out their and hold their hands?

but you believe the selectors "did a very good job"?? which were his exact words.

 

[BlueandGoldforever]

doherty - 3/306
beer - 1/110
north - 1/112
smith - 0/138
clarke - 0/13

our spinners - 5/679



most admit, i didn't realise it was that bad

somehow, i don't think hauritz would've done so poorly.

I totally agree. Ponting's dummy spit over Hauritz criticising his field and bowling tactics in India has resulted in inept spinners playing for Australia.

 

[damochandler]

Sorry I agree with him, the players did let themselves down, do you excerpt the selectors to go out their and hold their hands?

the players were terrible. but why do they keep picking them. they just sat back and let thing get worse. that's not doing a good job

 

[Adz87]

Well, clearly batting with a broken finger didn't enhance Ponting's batting and Michael Clarke's overall value to the team is reduced when he is injured. Subconsciously, he'd be worrying about affecting his back and that would seep through to his batting. Plus he cannot bowl or even field as effectively.

Pontings batting wasnt exactly going simmingly before the injury.

Father time has caught him Im afraid.

Clarke just doesnt have a tight enough technique to bat higher than 5. Sore back or not.

That and Bollinger was also unfit when played in Adelaide.

Bollinger lied about his fitness. Hence why we havent seen him since.

Sort of agree on Doherty, but is it really unreasonable to expect the selectors to actually do the selecting and not just go along with the advice of somebody who seems to be lacking in objectivity?

Granted, but when the captain of Australia says he wants something and lobbies hard enough there's a fair chance he'll have some pull.

When it was recognised he wasnt up to it they pulled him.

The players are to blame (of course), but ultimately the selectors were responsible for them having their places in the side in the first place. Nobody, as far as I know, was really clamouring for Siddle to play at the WACA or SCG, nor Hilfenhaus to play at the SCG.

Siddle was always going to be picked on a green top.

Who would you have bought in for Hilfenhous given Bollinger wasnt fit, Harris had broken down and Brett Lee is focussing on Weetbix commercials.

 

[Bombers_Forever]

This article sums things up nicely:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2010-11/content/current/story/495801.html

"Michael Clarke does not think Australian cricket is in crisis, but there can be no other description after what has happened over the past seven weeks. The elite game in the country has collapsed on and off the field during a record Ashes thrashing, from coaching and selection to more mundane matters like batting and bowling.

Despite all of this James Sutherland, the chief executive, is happy with the head coach, the selectors and the players - just not the result. Andrew Hilditch, the chairman of selectors, is not resigning and is pleased with the form of the four decision makers. "I think we've done a very good job as a selection panel, but the reality is we were totally out-played," he said. He was being serious.

Tim Nielsen, the coach, was reasonable enough to avoid praising himself and settled on saying that he had tried his best. Nobody has been accused of not trying, just of not being very good, or doing the right things. Yet nobody is resigning and nobody is being sacked.

All the onwards-and-upwards generals are talking about moving forward, but they have to hope Australia have hit the bottom first. Hilditch said the team's next two Test tours, against Sri Lanka and South Africa later in the year, would be even tougher than this one. His contract is up after the World Cup and it would be a sensible time to resign.

The three innings defeats have given Australia their worst thrashing of any series. Twenty-four years ago, when England last raised the urn here, the hosts were also in crisis. On that occasion it was due to the aftermath of the Lillee-Marsh-Chappell retirements and the exits of the rebels to South Africa. Everybody knew it was the worst of times.

This time the Test team was at full-strength and the result was even worse. Australia started the series as favourites but when the end came at the SCG, in front of a bouncing Barmy Army, England finished with a 3-1 victory. The innings-and-83-run triumph reverberated as much as the singing of the tourists.

For the Australians in the middle, it was a time to look at the ground. The pose has been a familiar one over the past two years, starting with a home defeat to South Africa and continuing with losses to England, India, a draw with Pakistan, and now this.

"I don't think there's a crisis in Australian cricket at all," Clarke said firmly. He was in a difficult position as the stand-in captain following his first Test in charge. The Ashes were gone before he had stepped into Ricky Ponting's shoes and his men did no better or worse than in the two other defeats.

"We need a lot of improvement in our game in all areas," Clarke said. "But I do believe we have the talent and potential in that change room to do it. We've seen through this series that guys have stood up at different times, but we're way too inconsistent to win a big series."

Like "disappointed", "improvement" is another word that drops off the tongues of beaten Aussies. Nielsen, in particular, uses it a lot, especially over the past year. When asked, given the number of poor series since the 2009 Ashes loss, which of his players had improved over the past six months he took a long pause.

"It depends on how you measure improvement," he said. "If we sit back and look at the series results it would be easy to say none of us have." After outlining the team's trouble with "adjusting to game situations", he nominated Michael Hussey, Shane Watson and Peter Siddle as ones who had improved.

Seventeen players were used in this series and only three of the Australians were worthy of mention. Ryan Harris, who is now injured, was the only other one who deserved to be included in that tiny group. It is not a glowing endorsement of the players or the coaching staff.

So what should happen at the end of a non-crisis? Cricket Australia is planning a review, which it does annually anyway, and Sutherland said nothing should be discounted, even though he has faith in all the major departments. Unlike an Australian batting collapse, the post-mortem won't happen quickly. A structure has to be determined and it has to be ratified by the board.

"I'm firmly of the view that you can't expect to get back on top by doing the same things and just simply plugging away," Sutherland said. "You have to look at where you're up to, how things are delivered and your approach, and that will certainly be part of a review that will happen in the coming weeks."

Clarke said the team was "as close to rock bottom as it gets", but if he is asked to contribute to the review he will counsel against mass changes. "We've got to become better players, we've got to become a better team." The answer nobody could give was how it would happen.

Before all that there is the World Cup, in which Australia are defending champions. Ponting will be back from his broken finger to aim for a fourth consecutive trophy. However, Hilditch wouldn't endorse him as the Test leader for their next series against Sri Lanka in August. "I wouldn't be blaming the captain [for the Ashes result]," Hilditch said. "They played better than us. Unfortunately people have to accept that's just what happened."

Hilditch answered casually when asked how much of the result was his fault. "I take responsibility for doing the best job I can possible for Australian cricket," he said. "It's what I've always done, I have a great passion for it and still want to do it. I'm sure we'll get through this stage."

Despite admitting they were out-bowled, out-batted and out-thought, Cricket Australia's top employees can't bring themselves to say they are in a crisis. Or apportion any blame for a summer filled with disasters. It would be funny if it wasn't so serious."

 

[Alpha1]

but you believe the selectors "did a very good job"?? which were his exact words.

Look they picked players they thought were going to match the English on the field, they cannot go out there and hold their hands, these guys are meant to be the best in the country.

I don;t understand all this blame flying around, obviously a few should not be in the side, but how can you blame the selectors for players not playing to their potential?

 

[Bombers_Forever]

I don;t understand all this blame flying around, obviously a few should not be in the side, but how can you blame the selectors for players not playing to their potential?

Did the selectors pick the best possible side for each match? No.

 

[The Governor]

We should really be able to petition to get this guy away from the team. What can we do, guys?

Lets establish a Facebook site to launch a campaign to sack Tim Nielsen and Andrew Hilditch! The Cricket Australia board do not have the courage to do it. If we get enough people to sign up for it and advertise the Facebook page on SEN, The Good Oil and other media outlets, people will take notice.

And, Cricket Australia will realise that they have to listen to its supporters..especially its corporate sponsors.

THE GOV

 

[Gooka]

Look they picked players they thought were going to match the English on the field, they cannot go out there and hold their hands, these guys are meant to be the best in the country.

I don;t understand all this blame flying around, obviously a few should not be in the side, but how can you blame the selectors for players not playing to their potential?

Cause if you pick them when injured, out of form, or not sure of their role (Smith) they'll never perform to their potential.

And how much "potential" does Doherty actually have?

 

[Alpha1]

Ponting said he was fit, so did Clarke, obviously they passed the medicals and got selected. If it's anyone's fault it's the medics who passed them fit, the selectors aren't at fault on this one.

If a player gives you a medical certificate and passes the fitness test and declares himself fit, then the selectors have to pick them, especially when it's the captain and VC.

 

[Adz87]

Lets establish a Facebook site to launch a campaign to sack Tim Nielsen and Andrew Hilditch! The Cricket Australia board do not have the courage to do it. If we get enough people to sign up for it and advertise the Facebook page on SEN, The Good Oil and other media outlets, people will take notice.

And, Cricket Australia will realise that they have to listen to its supporters..especially its corporate sponsors.

THE GOV

It's like a cone of silence.

Battler.

 

[The Governor]

Andrew Hilditch must be living in denial!! He is a complete fool.

Lets take a look at his career for Australia:

1. He played for Australia during the WSC period. He was dismissed HANDLING THE BALL against Pakistan.
2. He moved to South Australia after he married Bob Simpson's daughter.
3. He regained his spot in the test side in 1984-85. He scored a ton against the West Indies and England and he hooked himself out of the test side by playing the hook shot on too many occasions. Lawrie Sawle and Greg Chappell placed a black mark against his name and he never played for Australia again.
4. He was a major contributor in not regenerating the test side with youth after January 2008. He could not make the hard decisions to retire our champion players to prevent this type of disaster.
5. He will be remembered as the selector who lost the Ashes in 2009 and 2010-11.
6. How can he pick Phil Hughes, Marcus North and Michael Hussey even though Hussey was our leading run scorer?

Andrew Hilditch has to be sacked straight away to make way for GS Chappell as Chairman of Selectors. With a new chairman, there needs to be a new bunch of selectors and a new coach.

We need Mickey Arthur to lead Australia into a new era. We need a coach who can dish out some tough love to our young test cricketers and educate our cricketers to think on their feet.

The writing was on the wall after the Indian series loss in October 2008. The forward planning process should have started then to prevent a disaster of this magnitude.

At the end of the day, Ricky will be remembered as the 2nd Australian captain to have lost the Ashes on 3 occasions. You cannot blame Ricky. You can blame the selectors who did not show the leadership to tell him to plan for a new era after the retirements of McGrath, Warne, Gilly and Hayden.

THE GOV

 

[DaRick]

Pontings batting wasnt exactly going simmingly before the injury.

Father time has caught him Im afraid.

Clarke just doesnt have a tight enough technique to bat higher than 5. Sore back or not.

Sadly, I agree with you (I would move Ponting out of the Test side, FWIW). It doesn't make picking them when half-fit any wiser, though.

Bollinger lied about his fitness. Hence why we havent seen him since.

Ah, right.

Granted, but when the captain of Australia says he wants something and lobbies hard enough there's a fair chance he'll have some pull.

True, but should he have been able to influence three selectors whose duty it is to select the side to the point where he could dictate which players he wanted in and out? No way - he should still be overruled by majority decision if the selectors did not agree that Doherty is up to the job.

If the selectors kowtowed to Ponting, they're weak-willed. If they didn't, they're simply idiotic. That 'boys club' attitude that you speak of has probably contributed a fair amount to this mess.

Siddle was always going to be picked on a green top.

His record at the WACA has always been appalling TBH and that pitch wasn't really a green top. It did have more bounce than usual though.

Siddle ought to be a bowler restricted to bowling in certain conditions on certain grounds, not a mainstay.

Who would you have bought in for Hilfenhous given Bollinger wasnt fit, Harris had broken down and Brett Lee is focussing on Weetbix commercials.

Trent Copeland? Hell, even Clint McKay. Copeland has been in excellent form recently. He would likely have constricted the runs and taken more wickets - and he knows the SCG well. Plus, it would allow us to build a pace attack for SL - but the selectors squandered that chance.

 

[rose jam]

No one cares who they picked this summer because there aren't 11 players capable of beating England. It's what they were selecting over the last 3 years that's the problem.
Instead of chasing stupid test victories, how about building a side that can push the envelope again. That is what they should have done 3 years ago and shown the door to players like Hussey, Katich, Haddin etc. for talented under 24's.
I still don't get any comfort they're going to start this but instead be picking sides trying to beat Sri Lanka and S.A. Noone cares about the wins yet, just develop a freaking young team together.

 

[dan warna]

No one cares who they picked this summer because there aren't 11 players capable of beating England. It's what they were selecting over the last 3 years that's the problem.
Instead of chasing stupid test victories, how about building a side that can push the envelope again. That is what they should have done 3 years ago and shown the door to players like Hussey, Katich, Haddin etc. for talented under 24's.
I still don't get any comfort they're going to start this but instead be picking sides trying to beat Sri Lanka and S.A. Noone cares about the wins yet, just develop a freaking young team together.

yes we do care but hte basic infrastructure is wrong.

players lack discipline fielding, they are unfit, they lack focus, the can't play spin.

Our bowlers are all medium fast and contain batsman or try and blast them out, none of them can build pressure, like the english, like we used to.

Our batsman try and blast themselves into form and lack discipline like hussey. if hughes, clarke, smith et al had some of hussey's discpline they'd be half decent players.

khawaja has a tonne of discipline and I liked what i saw there, but he can't read good spin.

there are intrinsic and endemic flaws in our cricketers.

I wonder how much 20/20 50 over cricket has poisoned our capacity to differentiate our styles of cricket or are todays cricketers dumber than s.waugh, deano, punter, warne, mcgrath etc who could switch styles of play at a whim.

 

[Adz87]

His record at the WACA has always been appalling TBH and that pitch wasn't really a green top. It did have more bounce than usual though.

Siddle ought to be a bowler restricted to bowling in certain conditions on certain grounds, not a mainstay.

Was a bit green.

Siddle is a bang it into the pitch bowler, his only weapon is the occasional movement off the seam.

He had to play at Perth.

Especially after his performance at the Gabba.

 

[Jimthegreat]

The fish rots at the head.

About all that's needed.

 

[sherb]

I wonder how much 20/20 50 over cricket has poisoned our capacity to differentiate our styles of cricket or are todays cricketers dumber than s.waugh, deano, punter, warne, mcgrath etc who could switch styles of play at a whim.

The English play plenty of 20/20 and 50 over cricket as well. If not internationally, then at the domestic level. And it didn't seem to hurt them this series.

 

[Fart Cummings]

as long as he stays so will the current players because changing the players would be admitting he was wrong.