Unofficial Preview Changes v North - Gather Round

[Squizz89]

If we play Hipwood up on the wing, we would actually have to start valuing the wing position and play through it to make it worthwhile, otherwise you may as well keep him where he is.

 

[3KZ is Football]

That lineup would also beat WCE, so does not say all that much.

Just what did Fort do last week to keep Oscar out.
Dev Robertson should be dropped on form. Hardly sighted in his 2 games and fumble city in his last. Rightly subbed off.
He needs to find touch again in the VFL.
Lyons only gets his disposals & tackles around stoppages, so most posters correct in he only comes in if Neale or Dunkley out.
A liability around the ground when some pressure needed on the opposition ball carriers.

Prior over Answerth i can handle, but not much difference in who plays that position.
Ah Chee at HB i could also handle but he made it clear to Fagan he preferred fwd/wing and he does a reasonable job in that role.
Gardiner over Payne. On last years form and a couple of games this year i still prefer Payne. They have both been below their best.

Berry: Played in defense the first 2 games why i don't know so that is on Fagan.
Back to his best position and he was good against quality Pie wingers.
20 Disposals (lions 6th most) 18 being effective @ 90%, 6 marks (most was 7), 5 tackles (most was 6) 5 rebound 50's (the most).

Hippy, everyone in Australia that follows AFL has said he had a shocker.
Kicked 3 goals the week before but also did not play all that well.
Still would not drop the guy when he needs a bit of a confidence boost which should come this week.
I am happy to see Tunstill again but that would be over Dev who you also have in the side.

Sharp Sub: The running machine Sharp.
Because of his running ability he should be dominating the wing position possession wise in the VFL, but he is just a very solid player at that level.

So we drop the whippping boys and give mulligans to the usual suspects. Culture? More of the same? We beat North and treat it like the Gunston game against West Coast? Everything ok - nothing to see here? Gunners is back except against North it will be Bez, Hippy, Payne and Noah are back! I was right all along says Fages?

 

[Berrygood]

I'm happy to join in to the get into Hipwood throng on his performance last week but if we're going to play 3 or even 2 1/2 talls he's the best we've got and he has played quite a few good games over the last couple of years.

I can't help but think he just seems a bit jaded from the pressure of playing CHF which is just about the hardest position on the ground and whilst I wouldn't put him in the backline maybe we could redefine his role somehow and change the way we're using him and giving it to him.

Should Daniher be playing the CHF role, and Hippy play closer to goal. Joe likes to get up n down the ground, it gets him in the game. It drags his man up the ground, he marks and delivers better down the line and is a better kick at goal from that 50m range. Hippy has always looked better deeper man on man in space using his mobility and pace to his advantage, bringing his man fwd then getting out the back. He can run 1 defender around, he can't push n shove and compete with 2. His defensive pressure closer to goal is better than Joe's.

Should we be looking at subtle changes like that rather than complete position changes.

 

[martinson]

Should Daniher be playing the CHF role, and Hippy play closer to goal. Joe likes to get up n down the ground, it gets him in the game. It drags his man up the ground, he marks and delivers better down the line and is a better kick at goal from that 50m range. Hippy has always looked better deeper on his own in space using his mobility and pace to his advantage, bringing his man fwd then getting out the back. He can run 1 defender around, he can't push n shove and compete with 2. His defensive pressure closer to goal is better than Joe's.

Should we be looking at subtle changes like that rather than complete position changes.

That's an option.

I'm definitely all in on Joe at CHF but doubt it'll ever happen under Fages.

 

[Nathan Barley]

If Joe is rucking he probably cannot cover as much ground as a forward

 

[martinson]

If Joe is rucking he probably cannot cover as much ground as a forward

I wouldn't want him CHF and rucking which would mean rejigging of the preferred set up

 

[McIvor]

A much quicker side, with Lyons inclusion giving us the advantage of first hands on the ball at stoppages and tackling strength.

FB: Starcevich, Andrews, Gardiner
HB: Wilmot, Lester, Ah Chee
C: Fletcher, Dunkley, McCluggage
HF: McCarthy, Daniher, Lohmann
FF: Bailey, Rayner, Cameron
FOL: Fort, Neale, Robertson
INT: Lyons, Zorko, Tunstill, Prior
SUB: Sharp

This lineup would beat North. Rayner can lead out of the goal square or make a contest, clunk his marks or bring the ball to ground. We could play a faster and more open forward line. Very hard for opponents to match up on.

OUT: Berry, Hipwood, McInerney, Payne, Answerth (Lots off Gold Mulligan holders here)
IN: Lohmann, Tunstill, Prior, Gardiner, Lyons

As an astute observer 3KZ over a long period of time, I find your Rayner at full forward theory interesting particularly after hearing the stories and seeing YT clips of Fitzroy’s Richard Osborne who from my understanding wasn’t a tall per se and the old man says Ossie was no stranger to kicking bags of 10+regularly as an undersized full forward. Same as Doc Wheildon and Bears John Hutton who was a prolific small full forward at state league level when it was on par with the VFL.

That being said I also recall Ash McGrath playing full forward who was very capable leading out from the goal square.

I think you’re onto something but it’d mean Hippy has to be dropped or being played out of the forward line and Charlie would have to be instructed to play high half forward and clear Cams space. But yes, could Cam be the new modern day Ossie?

 

[3KZ is Football]

As an astute observer 3KZ over a long period of time, I find your Rayner at full forward theory interesting particularly after hearing the stories and seeing YT clips of Fitzroy’s Richard Osborne who from my understanding wasn’t a tall per se and the old man says Ossie was no stranger to kicking bags of 10+regularly as an undersized full forward. Same as Doc Wheildon and Bears John Hutton who was a prolific small full forward at state league level when it was on par with the VFL.

That being said I also recall Ash McGrath playing full forward who was very capable leading out from the goal square.

I think you’re onto something but it’d mean Hippy has to be dropped or being played out of the forward line and Charlie would have to be instructed to play high half forward and clear Cams space. But yes, could Cam be the new modern day Ossie?

Exactly. He’s not a midfielder, but he could be an outstanding Full Forward. Doc Wheildon had brilliant hands and was dynamic on the lead and on the deck. I know it is not his strong suit, but Fagan needs to manage Rayner with creativity and originality. It opens up our forward line too.

 

[martinson]

As an astute observer 3KZ over a long period of time, I find your Rayner at full forward theory interesting particularly after hearing the stories and seeing YT clips of Fitzroy’s Richard Osborne who from my understanding wasn’t a tall per se and the old man says Ossie was no stranger to kicking bags of 10+regularly as an undersized full forward. Same as Doc Wheildon and Bears John Hutton who was a prolific small full forward at state league level when it was on par with the VFL.

That being said I also recall Ash McGrath playing full forward who was very capable leading out from the goal square.

I think you’re onto something but it’d mean Hippy has to be dropped or being played out of the forward line and Charlie would have to be instructed to play high half forward and clear Cams space. But yes, could Cam be the new modern day Ossie?

One thing you could bet on is that he would totally embrace the role.

 

[McIvor]

Interesting to compare Chol and Hipwood. Both up and down but Chol often has a physical presence, while Hipwood rarely impacts physically. We miss a player like McStay and don't think we have someone like this on the list.

Look it may have made any difference but I still can’t believe so many were happy with Dan moving on and not offering what he wanted both in terms of dollars and contract length. I always thought it was ludicrous that we didn’t pony up given how hard it would be to either attract or develop another KPF. It really was such a shortsighted move.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Exactly. He’s not a midfielder, but he could be an outstanding Full Forward. Doc Wheildon had brilliant hands and was dynamic on the lead and on the deck. I know it is not his strong suit, but Fagan needs to manager Rayner with creativity and originality. It opens up our forward line too.

Cam would love this sort of role.

 

[Section 5]

So we drop the whippping boys and give mulligans to the usual suspects. Culture? More of the same? We beat North and treat it like the Gunston game against West Coast? Everything ok - nothing to see here? Gunners is back except against North it will be Bez, Hippy, Payne and Noah are back! I was right all along says Fages?

(a) Explain why you would drop Berry after his effort v Pies.
Pretend you are the coach as you like to do and give him feedback on why he is being omitted. I would love to hear it.
(b) Why would you keep Fort after he was clearly inferior to what Oscar produced in the Pies game.
Once again as coach you have to give feedback to Oscar on why. I also would love to hear the reasons.

(c) I can at least see you as coach giving the reasons why you are dropping Hippy. He would just have to take it in stride and get better. I just would not do it, but at least this time you can use his last game as a good reason for the decision.

Gardiner over Payne i don't really care about much as it is just a difference of opinion. They are both playing below their usual output.
How did Answerth get into your Fagan favourites and Mulligans seeing he only played 4 AFL games last year 3 as sub.

 

[McIvor]

I'm happy to join in to the get into Hipwood throng on his performance last week but if we're going to play 3 or even 2 1/2 talls he's the best we've got and he has played quite a few good games over the last couple of years.

I can't help but think he just seems a bit jaded from the pressure of playing CHF which is just about the hardest position on the ground and whilst I wouldn't put him in the backline maybe we could redefine his role somehow and change the way we're using him and giving it to him.

Did you see AFL360? GW said in no uncertain terms that Eric was terrible and completely uncompetitive and was rather scathing. I mean I’m not a GW fan but you rarely him be so critical to an individual player and Eric really should be embarrassed with that game.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I wouldn't want him CHF and rucking which would mean rejigging of the preferred set up

What percentage of any game would you expect the number one ruckman to take? I wonder how much of a chop out Fort or Oscar would need. Against Freo Oscar was on the ground for 86% of the game and I’m going to assume he rucked for basically all of that time. Daniher giving him the chop out for about 14% of a game isn’t a biggie. In the Freo game, Daniher played a team high 95% of the game.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Cam would love this sort of role.

Crazy-ape bonkers, the Doc, but what a talent.

Went from Under 19s, to reserves, to firsts in the space of 5 weeks. Kicked 7 in his third senior game; this game:



Definition of mercurial (ping ZoBlitz ).

 

[martinson]

What percentage of any game would you expect the number one ruckman to take? I wonder how much of a chop out Fort or Oscar would need.

I want him CHF but you'd have to play 2 rucks or find someone else to chop out imo

Re Hipwood he was fairly good most of last year . It's hard to get someone 6'8 with his agility. I've always wondered if there was another role to the one he's always played. Dunno why Whateley's barreled into him so hard when he had a few mates . I suppose it's the dropped chest marks, that's always a poor look whoever it is.

Likewise I don't see that much difference between Fort and O if they had the F/T role. Fort seemed to handle it ok when O was injured.

 

[martinson]

Crazy-ape bonkers, the Doc, but what a talent.

Went from Under 19s, to reserves, to firsts in the space of 5 weeks. Kicked 7 in his third senior game; this game:



Definition of mercurial (ping ZoBlitz ).

As they say he coulda been anything but didn't fancy training much and had a few mates who didn't help his footy career.

 

[briztoon]

Should Daniher be playing the CHF role, and Hippy play closer to goal. Joe likes to get up n down the ground, it gets him in the game. It drags his man up the ground, he marks and delivers better down the line and is a better kick at goal from that 50m range. Hippy has always looked better deeper man on man in space using his mobility and pace to his advantage, bringing his man fwd then getting out the back. He can run 1 defender around, he can't push n shove and compete with 2. His defensive pressure closer to goal is better than Joe's.

Should we be looking at subtle changes like that rather than complete position changes.

Problem is Daniher and Hipwood want to play in the same space, and are both better up the ground. Though they bring different attributes upfield

However, Daniher is more suited to playing closer to goal than Hipwood.

 

[McIvor]

Osborne = 182 cm and Rayner = 187 cm so no reason why Cam couldn’t play this Ossie / Doc role.

 

[martinson]

Look it may have made any difference but I still can’t believe so many were happy with Dan moving on and not offering what he wanted both in terms of dollars and contract length. I always thought it was ludicrous that we didn’t pony up given how hard it would be to either attract or develop another KPF. It really was such a shortsighted move.

We gave the deal to Doedee.

Sad and ironic that both now have ACL's.

It's a cruel sport sometimes. Let's hope both make it back and get to play on each other.

 

[BRAB]

Osborne = 182 cm and Rayner = 187 cm so no reason why Cam couldn’t play this Ossie / Doc role.

Do you think the game might be a little bit different these days.

 

[Kickback Flip]

I think one of the reasons we are struggling at the moment is that our middle tiered players haven’t progressed like we all thought they would.They have plateaued in their development and output. We just can’t rely on them to give a good consistent effort week in, week out.They might play one or two good quarters now and then, but most of the time they go missing for large chunks of a game.
These are the same players that let us down on Grand Final day and they have brought this form into the start of this season.

 

[McIvor]

Do you think the game might be a little bit different these days.

Of course it is but I think 3KZs theory has merit. Heeney occasionally plays out of FF, Jamie Elliott is a similar height that also plays the role and Dusty also but there’s no reason why Cam couldn’t play a similar role to Elliott.

let’s be honest, Charlie has pretty much been our FF in recent years more so than Eric or Joe given we open it up for him a lot - again, are we or is Fagan really that rigid to not try soemthing different that might actually catch our opposition by surprise?

Also Dunstall was only a 1cm taller than Cam and Gary Ablett Snr was only 185cm 2cm shorter.

Also when you have two guys playing on another, what has changed that what Ossie did in that footage isn’t done in 2024?

 

[Mr Ripper]

Also when you have two guys playing on another, what has changed that what Ossie did in that footage isn’t done in 2024?

The modern players aren't able to catch the football.

 

[dmac_55]

Has Fletcher played any footy down back at all?

I think our biggest issue is our drive and ball use from defence. He seems like a possibility to swing back there and break some lines, I also don’t mind his aerial work and has a pretty tidy disposal.

Also people have been saying Motty has been good this year, I think he has regressed on last years form. Kicking is all over the shop, just bangs it long and high and won’t Pierce the defence to find a target. Also has made some poor errors at times getting caught or giving away a free kick.

I have faith that Wilmot will be a good player for us but he is one of many players out of form right now. Kiddie and McKenna are huge losses so far for us and we haven’t found any replacements that could work yet. Zorks was good at times but at his age and height he isnt able to defend well enough and can’t rely on 20+ games