Charter underwrote bought peptides were not for human use

[BlueWorld]

Not amazing if the players know they were given banned substances, no deals have actually been offered what was offered is for the players to discuss and then see if deals are offered.

If they know they cheated then the obvious thing is to stick together and deny everything, Essendon and its lawyers would have ensured they realise if one breaks ranks they are all gone.

Makes far more sense. They know they cheated and are sticking together.

 

[fabulousphil]

What deal has been offered?

Couldn't be bothered looking it up, according to reports (newspaper article) they were offered one a few months ago ( 6 months deal)

it may be true it may be false

 

[good4footy]

Why wouldn't they try and see it out until the end and take the chance that they get found not guilty. Especially with the lawyers and little in their ear telling them everything will be fine.

For someone like Jobe who would probably be stripped of his brownlow if he took a deal, there is no reason not to let the investigation run its course.

For as long as 'sticking together' is a viable option to 'get off' then it is no surprise that this is what they are doing.

Sticking together has nothing to do with guilt or innocence, only a shared positive outcome. If / when that disappears then 'The Jimmy' will be implemented.

 

[gutsroy]

funny, it worked for me

worked for me, too

 

[Gigantor]

Of course there are gaps in the defence. You would expect that when either:
1) The accused party is innocent
2) The accused party has destroyed all the records and kept everyone at arms length with regards to purchasing of prohibited substances.

The problem now is differentiating 1) from 2).

For 1) to be plausible Essendon/Dank must have records of "good" thymosin use and purchase. Even if there are no records, there must be someone that can state they sold either Dank or Essendon the "good" thymosin. So far we have seen neither! Zero. Zilch.

So MOST REASONABLE people who considered 1) a possibility would now consider 2) far more likely, at least to a comfortable level of satisfaction.

Are you starting to follow the logic GG?

The logic is fine in leading the ASADA investigators to look at a club, no problem there.

It falls well short when you have an individual footballer sitting in the dock and there is no hard evidence linking that individual footballer to TB4.

In all the cases we looked at yesterday, they all had hard evidence linking the athlete directly to the prohibited substance, backed by financial records, and of course admissions helped.

ASADA might have such evidence for each individual player. They certainly will need it.

 

[Gigantor]

I'm not sure the defence will be happy to spout out that the only thing Dank markets is TB-4 my dear friend......

His anti-aging clinic markets the stuff to the public, and markets it quite openly.

His anti-aging clinic actually purchased the TB4 from Alavi. ASADA's own evidence:

The nominated ‘customer’ for both the Hexarelin and ‘Peptide Thymosin’ are listed on the respective invoices under the heading ‘Description’ as ‘Mrc & Icb (sic). Such references are consistent with the acronyms for Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergentics respectively, companies where Dank is a director.​

Is ASADA able to state definitively that the TB4 which MRC & IRC purchased from Alavi was not used as part of its normal business?

 

[RegHickeyStand]

The logic is fine in leading the ASADA investigators to look at a club, no problem there.

It falls well short when you have an individual footballer sitting in the dock and there is no hard evidence linking that individual footballer to TB4.

In all the cases we looked at yesterday, they all had hard evidence linking the athlete directly to the prohibited substance, backed by financial records, and of course admissions helped.

ASADA might have such evidence for each individual player. They certainly will need it.

Dock? Beyond Reasonable doubt?

 

[Satan]

Reminds me of an old joke

A bloke suspects his wife of cheating on him but is uncertain so hires a private detective to investigate. He tells the PD of his suspicions but continually says "It's the uncertainty, I just can't be sure"

After a couple of weeks the detective gets back to his client and tells him he has some bad news

"So I followed your wife to a restaurant where she met another man and had dinner with them"
"And then what happened? I want to be sure"
"They left holding hands and took a taxi to a nearby motel. Through the back window of the taxi I could see them kissing each other"
"And then what happened? I want to be sure"
"They booked a room with the desk clerk who seemed to recognize them as regulars and went upstairs to their room"
"And then what happened? I want to be sure"
"Well I couldn't see from the street but fortunately there was a tall tree nearby that gave a perfect view into their room through the window. They were passionately kissing each other and slowly removing their clothes. I'm sure this must be difficult for you do want me to go on?"
"Yes. Tell me I want to be sure they had sex"
"The man removed your wife's bra and panties. You sure you want to hear this?"
"Yes, yes, the uncertainty is killing me"
"She laid down on the bed on her back as he removed his boxer shorts. And then he turned the lights out so I saw no more"
"You see, it's the uncertainty, I just can't be sure she had sex"

Guess he supported essendon.

Or an interstate team

 

[RegHickeyStand]

His anti-aging clinic markets the stuff to the public, and markets it quite openly.

His anti-aging clinic actually purchased the TB4 from Alavi. ASADA's own evidence:

The nominated ‘customer’ for both the Hexarelin and ‘Peptide Thymosin’ are listed on the respective invoices under the heading ‘Description’ as ‘Mrc & Icb (sic). Such references are consistent with the acronyms for Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergentics respectively, companies where Dank is a director.​

Is ASADA able to state definitively that the TB4 which MRC & IRC purchased from Alavi was not used as part of its normal business?

They don't have to. And in isolation that isn't enough. But it's not in isolation, is it?

 

[Gigantor]

So who bought the thymomodulin then, where are the receipts the paperwork, strange that there is a trail a mile long pointing to the use of thymosin beta4 including Dank admitting it on national TV but nothing except a photo of a bottle of Thymomodulin taken well after this all began, to prove its use?

There is a trail of TB4 from the Chinese supplier to an anti-aging clinic which markets TB4 quite openly:

The nominated ‘customer’ for both the Hexarelin and ‘Peptide Thymosin’ are listed on the respective invoices under the heading ‘Description’ as ‘Mrc & Icb (sic). Such references are consistent with the acronyms for Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergentics respectively, companies where Dank is a director.​

It is not incumbent on each individual footballer, as he sits in the dock, being paid to be a professional footballer, to state where his football club sources various supplies.

 

[ShanDog]

It is not incumbent on each individual footballer, as he sits in the dock, being paid to be a professional footballer, to state where his football club sources various supplies.

Incorrect (or at the very least, irrelevant). Strict liability.

 

[Gigantor]

Are you kidding, so the players admit they took some kind of thymosin good or bad there are realms of evidence that it is thymosin b4 and one photo to prove it was not and you dont think that will cause any issues for the defence, I think you should go and do a little more thinking about this, remember it is not a criminal case.

There is a trail of TB4 leading from the Chinese supplier to an anti-aging clinic.

As each invividual footballer sits in the dock, it is not incumbent on that footballer to know where his footy club sources its various supplies from.

 

[Gigantor]

Incorrect (or at the very least, irrelevant). Strict liability.

Strict liability does not apply in the absence of an AAF.

 

[ShanDog]

Strict liability does not apply in the absence of an AAF.

Link plz.

 

[FuManchu]

A beer snob ..... only marginally worse than a wine snob ...

Lets face it, Corona aint a beer, its just flavoured water.

 

[Gigantor]

Gaps Essendon cannot fill

The EFC is not, and will not be, in the dock.

Each individual footballer will be in the dock and ASADA will have to establish a clearcut link between each individual footballer and TB4.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Strict liability does not apply in the absence of an AAF.

Actually it does.

 

[Gigantor]

Yep, this "new" information has very little consequence to the case. Just more PR mud-slinging and the resultant premature ejaculations of joy

I'm struggling to understand why so many are popping champagne corks.

ASADA expressed this same information back in August 2013.

There is nothing new here.

 

[Armchair Critic]

Strict liability does not apply in the absence of an AAF.

If strict Liability does not apply please explain how they can get you for ATTEMPTED USE

Jake Law stated he did not know the substance was prohibited and the tribunal believed that. How did they convict him without using strict liability principle

 

[Gigantor]

Actually it does.

From WADA's website (I would have thought that all experienced posters would have known this back the front by now):

What is strict liability?

The principle of strict liability is applied in situations where urine/blood samples collected from an athlete have produced adverse analytical results.​

 

[RegHickeyStand]

No one has ever suggested that Charter purchased Thymomodulin.

It is already contained in the ASADA evidence forming part of the interim report that an anti-aging clinic paid Alavi for the TB4.

Does anyone have a pic of that Thymomodulin bottle Essendon hawked around at one stage?

The spreadsheet, along with a picture of a bottle of Thymomodulin found in Dank's fridge at Essendon, were provided to the ASADA probe by the club.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...n-vague-accounts/story-fnca0u4y-1226790306856

 

[QuietB]

The EFC is not, and will not be, in the dock.

Each individual footballer will be in the dock and ASADA will have to establish a clearcut link between each individual footballer and TB4.

Full law and order style

 

[Gigantor]

If strict Liability does not apply please explain how they can get you for ATTEMPTED

Jake Law stated he did not know the substance was prohibited and the tribunal believed that. How did they convict him without using strict liability principle

The scenario you are describing is not even making use of strict liabiilty.

What is strict liability?

The principle of strict liability is applied in situations where urine/blood samples collected from an athlete have produced adverse analytical results.

 

[Gigantor]

They can emphasise it all they like. And every single time they will be asked for a credible alternative and Essendon will give the judge another box of donuts.

There is no credible alternative.

Each individual footballer sitting in the dock doesn't have to put anything forward.

The onus is 100% on ASADA to establish a clearcut link between the footballer and TB4.

 

[QuietB]

There is a trail of TB4 leading from the Chinese supplier to an anti-aging clinic.

As each invividual footballer sits in the dock, it is not incumbent on that footballer to know where his footy club sources its various supplies from.

There is a trail from a vial to 34 players stomachs with accompanying consent forms saying they are being injected with Thymosin.

So we can add this to a known supply chain trail for TB4, or an imaginary supply chain for something else.

Who is gonna win GG