Charter underwrote bought peptides were not for human use

[Bobby Charlton]

No. The players holding steady with their club may or may not mean they think they are innocent. What it definitely means is they have no critical eye to cast over the actions of their club. They are not only naive but foolish, and possibly gutless too.

Have you not thought that a more logical explanation for the players not being critical of their club might be that they do not believe they have been injected with prohibited substances?

 

[Gigantor]

Somebody paid for the TB4, right? The person who knows (Dank) isn't saying who. Matter of fact he refuses to speak about it. He won't - if what you say is true - even give details of where he sold it privately to his clinic patients. And the Essendon Football Club have sniped and attacked Dean Robinson, Kyle Reimers, various jouirnalists, thrown David Evans under a bus....but not Dank. Dank, who it looks like is going to sink the players, with him not offering them an alibi for where the TB4 went. Yet nary a peep from Little about it. Odd, don't you think?

We know who paid for it.

ASADA's evidence from the interim report (Aug 2013) tells us precisely who paid for it:

The nominated ‘customer’ for both the Hexarelin and ‘Peptide Thymosin’ are listed on the respective invoices under the heading ‘Description’ as ‘Mrc & Icb (sic). Such references are consistent with the acronyms for Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergentics respectively, companies where Dank is a director.

(Page 188): The Medical Rejuvenation Clinic (MRC) is a Sydney based company that sells peptides online, through distributors and from a business premises in Bondi Junction. The Clinic has four Directors including Edward Van Spanje and Mr Dank.

MRC is affiliated with Best Buy Supplements (BBS) – a company that sells peptides and supplements online. Van Spanje is also a director of BBS.​

 

[Unique Name]

Correct. First and foremost, you must know that the prohibited substance has entered the body....then strict liability applies.

But on this board, there is an expectation that ASADA merely has to point the finger, and strict liability applies.

That is quite obviously incorrect, and if people want, I can quote WADA and the Aust Sports Commission again.

So all drug cheats have to do is remove the labels and then they're safe?

If Essendon dont know what was injected how can they defend accusations of TB4 use, however strong/weak the evidence.

Essendon are saying 'we dont know what was injected, we just know it wasnt illegal!'

By going with that line of defence how do they deny any evidence that states it probably was illegal?

 

[chelseacarlton]

Dank was also "an official" of his own businesses

Well then,I'm sure he has records or all the sales data to prove these substances went elsewhere/other than EFC.
Surely the ACC and Asada wouldn't have bothered if that's the case?

 

[Gigantor]

"USE" is different to "PRESENCE" , Use has no AAF

1. Presence of a prohibited substance or its metabolites or markers in an athlete’s sample

2. 2. Use or attempted use by an athlete of a prohibited substance or prohibited method.

http://www.asada.gov.au/rules_and_violations/8_rule_violations.html

Yes, you are referring to two different things.

 

[Gigantor]

So all drug cheats have to do is remove the labels and then they're safe?

If Essendon dont know what was injected how can they defend accusations of TB4 use, however strong/weak the evidence.

Essendon are saying 'we dont know what was injected, we just know it wasnt illegal!'

By going with that line of defence how do they deny any evidence that states it probably was illegal?

Are you asking in the context of non-presence violations?

 

[Armchair Critic]

Yes, you are referring to two different things.

No, I wasn't.KFC was

 

[kfc1]

Well then,I'm sure he has records or all the sales data to prove these substances went elsewhere/other than EFC.
Surely the ACC and Asada wouldn't have bothered if that's the case?

Well they didn't bother interviewing Dank so...

 

[Armchair Critic]

We know who paid for it.

ASADA's evidence from the interim report (Aug 2013) tells us precisely who paid for it:

The nominated ‘customer’ for both the Hexarelin and ‘Peptide Thymosin’ are listed on the respective invoices under the heading ‘Description’ as ‘Mrc & Icb (sic). Such references are consistent with the acronyms for Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergentics respectively, companies where Dank is a director.

(Page 188): The Medical Rejuvenation Clinic (MRC) is a Sydney based company that sells peptides online, through distributors and from a business premises in Bondi Junction. The Clinic has four Directors including Edward Van Spanje and Mr Dank.

MRC is affiliated with Best Buy Supplements (BBS) – a company that sells peptides and supplements online. Van Spanje is also a director of BBS.​

Show us a link for that or are you quoting a Bruce Francis BS blog article

 

[Gigantor]

Well then,I'm sure he has records or all the sales data to prove these substances went elsewhere/other than EFC.
Surely the ACC and Asada wouldn't have bothered if that's the case?

Well, ASADA are very clear on who paid for the TB4. From their evidence to the interim report, August 2013:

The nominated ‘customer’ for both the Hexarelin and ‘Peptide Thymosin’ are listed on the respective invoices under the heading ‘Description’ as ‘Mrc & Icb (sic). Such references are consistent with the acronyms for Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergentics respectively, companies where Dank is a director.

(Page 188): The Medical Rejuvenation Clinic (MRC) is a Sydney based company that sells peptides online, through distributors and from a business premises in Bondi Junction. The Clinic has four Directors including Edward Van Spanje and Mr Dank.

MRC is affiliated with Best Buy Supplements (BBS) – a company that sells peptides and supplements online. Van Spanje is also a director of BBS.​

 

[Gigantor]

Show us a link for that or a you quoting a Bruce Francis BS blog article

He is quoting from the ASADA evidence attached to the interim report from August 2013.

 

[gavaniacono]

Have you not thought that a more logical explanation for the players not being critical of their club might be that they do not believe they have been injected with prohibited substances?

Records of supplements?

 

[Grwin]

Ultimately we only have the players word that they did not intend to cheat but that is what happened whether they wanted too or not. It doesn't matter what they thought does it. All that matters is what actually happened and from what iv'e seen the most likely thing is that they were injected with ped's and those ped's were illegal. Whether they believed they were in the wrong or not means little. It might get them a reduced sentence if found guilty or discounts on the penalty but it doesn't absolve them of their responsibility of knowing exactly what it was that they were being injected with.

Why didn't they ask exactly what was the drugs they were being injected with and demand to see the paperwork and check it with ASADA who had a 24 hour help line. If they did that then there is a good chance they would not be facing the situation they were put in by their club.
Everything else is a smokescreen Essendon lead by their coach recklessly endangered the careers of virtually their entire playing squad and then didn't even have the ability to prove every thing was legitimate because if they could it would have been over by now.

This has to be one of the greatest betrayals of trust from a club to its playing group i have ever heard of anywhere. And why because they thought other clubs were doing it too. No evidence either just hear say and if they were that alarmed why didn't they report those clubs to ASADA themselves.

 

[Tiger2709]

Not relevant. That article, published 22 August, was about a denial by ASADA that they made a deal with the AFL on deals for the players. The article I posted written by Caro (and published 26 August ie after the ASADA denial in the previous article) declared the deals ASADA offered to the players without involvement of the AFL. ASADA have never denied the statement by Caro of 26 August and Caro has not withdrawn it. You lose yet again.

I must have missed the quote from ASADA in that article, or was it a my sources tell me type of article, the type that you Hirdites constantly ridicule?

 

[Gigantor]

Records of supplements?

There are records, but it is generally accepted that they are incomplete and/or insufficiently detailed.

 

[Keys]

Have you not thought that a more logical explanation for the players not being critical of their club might be that they do not believe they have been injected with prohibited substances?

It makes you wonder what the club has told or shown them to underscore that belief that they haven't been injected with a prohibited substance.

And if they've provided that information to ASADA why are ASADA still pursuing a doping case

And if they have the evidence that satisfies the players concerns, why the club has not released that information so that the players aren't continually under a cloud of suspicion.

All we've really seen from essendon so far is we didn't do it, honest, you'll see when it all comes out

 

[HTPunter]

Well, can't say ASADAs case for this is as strong as their court-case about the improper investigation, but I'd imagine Essendon are working pretty hard behind the scenes to discount the circumstances...

 

[Gigantor]

I must have missed the quote from ASADA in that article, or was it a my sources tell me type of article, the type that you Hirdites constantly ridicule?

Just out of curiosity, why do people on here have trouble accepting that ASADA would have had deals ready to go back in June?

There remains a very good chance that the deals will be pulled out again, and all this stuff getting leaked to the press by ASADA is about putting pressure on the players.

The lawyers ought to be smart enough to know that ASADA will get even more desperate for a deal the closer it gets to a tribunal date.

 

[gavaniacono]

You say that, but where are all the parents complaining, where are the spouces, parents, managers hip and shouldering the club ?, you can bet your bottom $ that they don't all barrack for Essendon, like the club, even like football or Hird.

What has stopped hundreds of people associated with the club/players/officials lashing out incognito if they feel scared to identify themselves.

You have to ask yourself this.

yet no one has done it !!!

There are many possible and logical explanations. Choose what one wants to believe. I believe the club has spread the idea that breaking ranks will likely have a player being penalised and labelled a drug cheat. This fear has had the desired effect. It also has the parallel benefit of taking the light away from essendon a woeful governance.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Well, ASADA are very clear on who paid for the TB4. From their evidence to the interim report, August 2013:

The nominated ‘customer’ for both the Hexarelin and ‘Peptide Thymosin’ are listed on the respective invoices under the heading ‘Description’ as ‘Mrc & Icb (sic). Such references are consistent with the acronyms for Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergentics respectively, companies where Dank is a director.

(Page 188): The Medical Rejuvenation Clinic (MRC) is a Sydney based company that sells peptides online, through distributors and from a business premises in Bondi Junction. The Clinic has four Directors including Edward Van Spanje and Mr Dank.

MRC is affiliated with Best Buy Supplements (BBS) – a company that sells peptides and supplements online. Van Spanje is also a director of BBS.​

Simple. Dank just needs to show them who all this thymosin beta 4 was sold to. He can give them names of the patients he has treated in the Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergentics that used all this thymosin. The authorities can check up all these alleged patients.
Should be a breeze hey GG? Of course they need to be able to demonstrate that they did indeed buy and use the TB-4 at the appropriate time.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Well, ASADA are very clear on who paid for the TB4. From their evidence to the interim report, August 2013:

The nominated ‘customer’ for both the Hexarelin and ‘Peptide Thymosin’ are listed on the respective invoices under the heading ‘Description’ as ‘Mrc & Icb (sic). Such references are consistent with the acronyms for Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergentics respectively, companies where Dank is a director.

(Page 188): The Medical Rejuvenation Clinic (MRC) is a Sydney based company that sells peptides online, through distributors and from a business premises in Bondi Junction. The Clinic has four Directors including Edward Van Spanje and Mr Dank.

MRC is affiliated with Best Buy Supplements (BBS) – a company that sells peptides and supplements online. Van Spanje is also a director of BBS.​

'Sales' data I repeat 'sales'......
So he bought and sold them to himself?

 

[Unique Name]

Are you asking in the context of non-presence violations?

I'm asking how does one defend allegations of illegal drug use when one states that they have zero-clue and zero-records about what they injected into themselves.

ASADA then build a case that shows in all likely hood that it was TB4. They might not have 100% prove but if all Essendon can say in retort is 'we dont know, but we do know it wasnt ilegal' then Essendon are ****ed!

 

[Gigantor]

Simple. Dank just needs to show them who all this thymosin beta 4 was sold to. He can give them names of the patients he has treated in the Medical Rejuvenation Clinic and Institute of Cellular Bioenergentics that used all this thymosin. The authorities can check up all these alleged patients.
Should be a breeze hey GG? Of course they need to be able to demonstrate that they did indeed buy and use the TB-4 at the appropriate time.

From what I understand, ASADA has elected to not talk to Dank.

As for MRC and ICB, the ASADA evidence from August 2013 makes it clear that they had regular dealings with Alavi, and bought a fair bit from him, including a range of stuff that would be viewed as prohibited under the WADA code.

Let me say, there is enough in all of this for ASADA to want to take a very close look at it, but until they establish a clearcut link of the TB4 going back to each and every player, then I can't see how they can come up with suspensions for all 34 players en masse.

Expect ASADA to make the players sweat it out, to continue leaking stuff to the press (all of it old hat), and eventually a deal will be made where the players miss 2 or 3 pre-season games.

ASADA is not interested in taking this to the tribunal.

 

[Gigantor]

'Sales' data I repeat 'sales'......
So he bought and sold them to himself?

No, you have misunderstood, these are sales from Alavi to MRC, of which Dank is a director.

 

[Gigantor]

I'm asking how does one defend allegations of illegal drug use when one states that they have zero-clue and zero-records about what they injected into themselves.

ASADA then build a case that shows in all likely hood that it was TB4. They might not have 100% prove but if all Essendon can say in retort is 'we dont know, but we do know it wasnt ilegal' then Essendon are ******!

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

It is not EFC in the dock.

Each individual footballer will be in the dock, and ASADA will have to make a case about that individual player being administered with TB4 (or otherwise attempting use or being in possession, or whatever it is that they are wanting to prove).

The onus is on ASADA to prove use or attempted use (or possession, etc).