Domestic Violence Epidemic

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owen87 said:
I took his point as being that what we're doing in many ways is and has been working.

The murder rate has dropped substantially over time, so whilst we are quite right to want to have a discussion about it, and see if there's more we can do, a lot of what we're doing has been right.

As the population increases we could even see more victims as a raw number but a decreasing rate. The target should of course, always be zero.
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I understand what he’s saying and have agreed that some things are working but if we see an increase in DV homicides we need to look at other strategies.
 
owen87 said:
I took his point as being that what we're doing in many ways is and has been working.

The murder rate has dropped substantially over time, so whilst we are quite right to want to have a discussion about it, and see if there's more we can do, a lot of what we're doing has been right.

As the population increases we could even see more victims as a raw number but a decreasing rate. The target should of course, always be zero.
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My understanding is that demand for DV support services is at an all-time high, reported DV is at or near an all-time high, and those working in the field believe it is significantly under-reported. Against this backdrop, and unless that is incorrect, I don't understand how anybody can say that current strategies are "working", or that it is not a crisis or epidemic.
 
jason_recliner said:
My understanding is that demand for DV support services is at an all-time high, reported DV is at or near an all-time high, and those working in the field believe it is significantly under-reported. Against this backdrop, and unless that is incorrect, I don't understand how anybody can say that current strategies are "working", or that it is not a crisis or epidemic.
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Yeah - 25%+ of suburban / local / country coppers time is spent dealing with DV.

A female police officer I used to work with told me it really wears cops down dealing with it over and over again.

It creates a "burn out" culture where no matter the support you put around them, they start to look for other
policing opportunities - Org Crime Taskforces, etc.

Her husband - also a copper felt exactly the same way.
 
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jason_recliner said:
My understanding is that demand for DV support services is at an all-time high, reported DV is at or near an all-time high, and those working in the field believe it is significantly under-reported. Against this backdrop, and unless that is incorrect, I don't understand how anybody can say that current strategies are "working", or that it is not a crisis or epidemic.
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Better access to support services, a growing population, and better awareness - of both DV behaviour and of the existence of services - could all result in these things.

My guess is that actual rates of DV aren't any higher, it's being reported more. Which is a positive to the extent that more people are seeking help, and that the more we're aware of it, the more we can properly provide support and services to work to reduce it where possible, or allow 'escape' pathway.

As I said, obviously the target should always be zero, and we should always be listening to experts in the field and on the front-lines to try to improve what we're doing and how we're doing it.

A correlation vs causation situation.
 
owen87 said:
Better access to support services, a growing population, and better awareness - of both DV behaviour and of the existence of services - could all result in these things.

My guess is that actual rates of DV aren't any higher, it's being reported more. Which is a positive to the extent that more people are seeking help, and that the more we're aware of it, the more we can properly provide support and services to work to reduce it where possible, or allow 'escape' pathway.

As I said, obviously the target should always be zero, and we should always be listening to experts in the field and on the front-lines to try to improve what we're doing and how we're doing it.

A correlation vs causation situation.
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That's a lot of conclusions to draw based on a guess.
 
Underarrest_ said:
I’m not guessing.
I’ll stick to a working progress.
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You are guessing?

The trend has been downwards for a long time, approximately 52% since 89-90 when it was first recorded. You can have spikes and troughs along the way and still see a downwards trend over time.

www.abc.net.au

Rate of intimate partner homicide involving female victims rose 28pc last financial year

New data shows almost half the women who were victims of a homicide in the last financial year were killed by a former or current intimate partner. While this represents a 28 per cent increase on the previous year, it is also the second-lowest rate since records began in 1990.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au


Your thinking appears to be that this is the beginning of a long-term increase in DV homicide rates?
 
jason_recliner said:
That's a lot of conclusions to draw based on a guess.
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I literally wrote 'guess' in there, yes.

I don't believe society at large is seeing a sudden shift in men's attitudes towards women such that we're more violent, more abusive and more controlling towards them than we were 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

People like Tate have always been around, and whilst I think he has extremely problematic views and we certainly should be making sure that young people (of all genders and sexualities) are receiving education around healthy relationships, respectful behaviour towards intimate partners, and things like pr0n not representing 'real' sexual interactions so that voices like Tates aren't the ones driving attitudes, I don't think we're seeing something that certain segments of society haven't always said.

There's much more awareness of DV behaviour these days, access to services is much better advertised, and IMO society in general is much more supportive of (though some sections still aren't) victims coming forward.
 
owen87 said:
You are guessing?

The trend has been downwards for a long time, approximately 52% since 89-90 when it was first recorded. You can have spikes and troughs along the way and still see a downwards trend over time.

www.abc.net.au

Rate of intimate partner homicide involving female victims rose 28pc last financial year

New data shows almost half the women who were victims of a homicide in the last financial year were killed by a former or current intimate partner. While this represents a 28 per cent increase on the previous year, it is also the second-lowest rate since records began in 1990.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au


Your thinking appears to be that this is the beginning of a long-term increase in DV homicide rates?
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No I know that there has been an increase this year and am not going to guess if this will soon take a downward turn without more action.
 
owen87 said:
Pretty tough to have a discussion on the topic if you're determined to not discuss anything long-term...
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That’s not a fair comment to what I’ve been saying. I have discussed the importance of continuing to look at other strategies to stop or at the least reduce DV homicides.
Can we agree to agree on part but maybe not on all?
 

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owen87 said:
I literally wrote 'guess' in there, yes.

I don't believe society at large is seeing a sudden shift in men's attitudes towards women such that we're more violent, more abusive and more controlling towards them than we were 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

People like Tate have always been around, and whilst I think he has extremely problematic views and we certainly should be making sure that young people (of all genders and sexualities) are receiving education around healthy relationships, respectful behaviour towards intimate partners, and things like pr0n not representing 'real' sexual interactions so that voices like Tates aren't the ones driving attitudes, I don't think we're seeing something that certain segments of society haven't always said.

There's much more awareness of DV behaviour these days, access to services is much better advertised, and IMO society in general is much more supportive of (though some sections still aren't) victims coming forward.
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That's reasonable but I see several possible reasons for increasing harm from DV in Australia:
  • Increased immigration
  • Increased hard drug use, particularly methamphetamine and cocaine
  • Widening of gap between rich and poor, and shrinking of middle class (cost of living and financial pressures for families who previously would have been more 'comfortable')
  • Increased availability of more extreme pr0n to boys at a younger age
For these reasons I don't think the cause of documented increased reports, police effort, and demand for frontline services can reliably be inferred to be increased willingness to report.
 
jason_recliner said:
That's reasonable but I see several possible reasons for increasing harm from DV in Australia:
  • Increased immigration
  • Increased hard drug use, particularly methamphetamine and cocaine
  • Widening of gap between rich and poor, and shrinking of middle class (cost of living and financial pressures for families who previously would have been more 'comfortable')
  • Increased availability of more extreme pr0n to boys at a younger age
For these reasons I don't think the cause of documented increased reports, police effort, and demand for frontline services can reliably be inferred to be increased willingness to report.
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Also post-COVID lockdown mental health issues.
 
A WA example today of under-resourcing of the Justice System causing delays in bringing cases to court, which is then used as the prime reason why bail should be granted.

thewest.com.au

Mercanti gets bail, fights serious sexual assault charges

The notorious senior bikie has won his bid to be bailed from jail and is set to plead not guilty to serious sexual assault charges, while police say the case has brought another complainant forward.
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au

'Troy Mercanti: Notorious senior bikie gets bail, vows to fight serious sexual assault charges'​

'...
Mr Holmes argued that bail should be granted because the indictable charges would be elevated to the District Court, with a trial listing hearing potentially unable to be locked in until early next year.

The police prosecutor opposed bail, revealing that media reporting of the charges had resulted in another complainant coming forward.

He also noted Mercanti currently faces one count of fighting in public causing fear, relating to an alleged assault involving an Ellenbrook fish and chip shop owner and a member of the rival Rebels bikie gang on March 10.

Magistrate Matthews granted the bail bid, saying the accused deserved a presumption of innocence, imposing conditions including reporting to police twice weekly and paying a $100,000 personal undertaking.'
 
BFew said:
A WA example today of under-resourcing of the Justice System causing delays in bringing cases to court, which is then used as the prime reason why bail should be granted.

thewest.com.au

Mercanti gets bail, fights serious sexual assault charges

The notorious senior bikie has won his bid to be bailed from jail and is set to plead not guilty to serious sexual assault charges, while police say the case has brought another complainant forward.
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au

'Troy Mercanti: Notorious senior bikie gets bail, vows to fight serious sexual assault charges'​

'...
Mr Holmes argued that bail should be granted because the indictable charges would be elevated to the District Court, with a trial listing hearing potentially unable to be locked in until early next year.

The police prosecutor opposed bail, revealing that media reporting of the charges had resulted in another complainant coming forward.

He also noted Mercanti currently faces one count of fighting in public causing fear, relating to an alleged assault involving an Ellenbrook fish and chip shop owner and a member of the rival Rebels bikie gang on March 10.

Magistrate Matthews granted the bail bid, saying the accused deserved a presumption of innocence, imposing conditions including reporting to police twice weekly and paying a $100,000 personal undertaking.'
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“The police prosecutor opposed bail.”
and still he was let out on bail knowing he’s possibly already reoffended. Unbelievable!
If ever there’s something that could be improved, this is it.
 
Underarrest_ said:
“The police prosecutor opposed bail.”
and still he was let out on bail knowing he’s possibly already reoffended. Unbelievable!
If ever there’s something that could be improved, this is it.
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That's one way to take the pressure off the Courts.

Have it know that even someone like Mercanti will be bailed, to deter victims from reporting sexual assaults in the hope that their legit dangerous assaulters will at least be locked up from arrest through to the end of the court processes.

www.abc.net.au

Bikie Troy Mercanti released on bail over serious sexual assault charges, as second complainant comes forward

High profile Perth bikie Troy Mercanti is released from custody after spending the weekend behind bars on serious sexual assault charges, with police revealing more offences could follow.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
'Police prosecutor Sergeant Chris Evans told the Perth Magistrates Court on Monday the alleged sexual assault occurred between noon and 1pm on Thursday, after Mercanti had spent the previous night consuming alcohol and drugs, including cocaine.'

'Prosecutors opposed bail, with Mr Evans saying he was "highly concerned" Mercanti would influence potential witnesses or coerce the alleged victim if released.

Mr Evans told the court the woman had been receiving threatening messages on social media from members of the Mongols outlaw motorcycle gang, of which Mercanti was a senior member.

Mr Evans said she told police: "This is the end of me, I'm going to be killed."'
 
BFew said:
That's one way to take the pressure off the Courts.

Have it know that even someone like Mercanti will be bailed, to deter victims from reporting sexual assaults in the hope that their legit dangerous assaulters will at least be locked up from arrest through to the end of the court processes.

www.abc.net.au

Bikie Troy Mercanti released on bail over serious sexual assault charges, as second complainant comes forward

High profile Perth bikie Troy Mercanti is released from custody after spending the weekend behind bars on serious sexual assault charges, with police revealing more offences could follow.
www.abc.net.au www.abc.net.au
'Police prosecutor Sergeant Chris Evans told the Perth Magistrates Court on Monday the alleged sexual assault occurred between noon and 1pm on Thursday, after Mercanti had spent the previous night consuming alcohol and drugs, including cocaine.'

'Prosecutors opposed bail, with Mr Evans saying he was "highly concerned" Mercanti would influence potential witnesses or coerce the alleged victim if released.

Mr Evans told the court the woman had been receiving threatening messages on social media from members of the Mongols outlaw motorcycle gang, of which Mercanti was a senior member.

Mr Evans said she told police: "This is the end of me, I'm going to be killed."'
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Yes not a great incentive to report crimes when the perpetrator is probably going to be given bail due to under-resourcing. The
under-resourcing of the Justice System needs an overhaul.
 
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cartwright said:
In the other thread on the main board someone mentioned a very poor joke they’ve heard in the workplace about a woman with black eyes

What sort of culture and group would let that go? That’s an example of misogyny in the workplace

Someone feels comfortable enough or thinks it’s normal enough to use that sort of joke.

If those sorts of “jokes” are said in male dominated environments , I hope someone calls it out and lets the person know they’re a misogynist dick
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John Silvester wrote an article published in The Age on 03MAY2024

www.theage.com.au

Family violence: You can’t see if you don’t look

There is one aspect of the justice system that must be changed to stem the violence. But there is a part men can play.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au

It's a good read and below is the last few paragraphs of the piece which surprisingly has an AFL bent and is relevant
to the points you raise above re: casual and blatant misogyny in "blokey" workplaces .........

"The man who has most impressed me was not a family violence expert or a veteran cop but a shy AFL footballer, who a few years back took to his feet to address the problem as his pregnant wife stood to the side and watched.

Ben Brown said when he arrived at a footy club, he at first laughed at the off jokes because he wanted to fit in.
As he gained confidence, he would seek out the joke teller in private and explain: “Would that be funny if it was your sister?”

Later, he would call out the joke in front of the players – prepared to be the odd one out. Then a funny thing happened. Other players came to him to say they felt the same way and the culture shifted.

Mission statements and big promises are impressive, but the change must come from us. Sometimes little steps cover the most ground."
 
Bostonian said:
Why do you think these young teens end up gravitating towards there manosphere spaces?
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The vast majority don't, thankfully, but of those that do, I think there are similar reasons to why some boys want to be criminals.
  • Low intelligence
  • Propensity to bully
  • Low achievers
  • Laziness - attracted to get rich and get women quick (without doing the work)
  • Focus on body rather than brains - laziness again, easier to go to the gym than get a (valuable) degree
  • Shallow view of what makes women desirable
  • Greed for material possessions
Not exhaustive at all but I do see similarities between the mansopsphere and, say, eshays.
 
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