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For good or bad, I think it has reshaped how and why we go to war. Major conflicts like Napoleon, WW1 and WW2 simply can't happen anymore.
Hiroshima A-bomb 70th Anniversary
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Pretty hard to sit here 70 years later and make sober judgements on decisions that were made on the back of 6 years of world conflict against tyrannical aggressors which had killed 75 million people.
Value and ethical judgments? Really...
It ended the war. Probably all that can be said. Mission accomplished.
Was there a nicer way to do it? To break the unhinged will of the Japanese? Quite possibly. Quite possibly not. Either way, by that point I doubt there was any hunger whatsoever to drag it out, no matter what the cost.
In far too simplistic terms, it remains the mother of all circuit breakers.
Value and ethical judgments? Really...
It ended the war. Probably all that can be said. Mission accomplished.
Was there a nicer way to do it? To break the unhinged will of the Japanese? Quite possibly. Quite possibly not. Either way, by that point I doubt there was any hunger whatsoever to drag it out, no matter what the cost.
In far too simplistic terms, it remains the mother of all circuit breakers.
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We Exist To Win Premierships
what a great video
two points leap out.....rich countries don't like going to war. middle class simply prefer watching sport on the weekend than sitting in trenches dying for their nation.
the other is russia has a history of victory at any price. ISIS should take note and their fanaticism is a competitive advantage against the west but it is no match for russia.
Jiska
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- #30
It's my opinion that the bombs did nothing. It was merely a show of strength by Truman to enforce their standing in the international community, more so to scare the Russians. Dropping the bombs had absolutely nothing to do with the war and did little to advance American efforts. It was merely a revenge attack for Pearl Harbour, on top of the showing off of their new weapon. Following their dropping, the Japanese did not relent, or change their lines of attack.
I would argue that the trigger for the Japanese surrender was the declaration of war on Japan by the Soviets, seven days before the surrender. Stalin had promised Churchill and Roosevelt support in the war against Japan once the war in Europe had finished in return for their support on the Eastern front. Over 1 million Soviet soliders entered Manchuria on Aug 8, 1945 to take on the Japenese, who had roughly 700,000 soliders at the time. Seven days later, they surrendered.
I'd further argue that the US knew the Japanese would surrender once the Soviet's entered the war and, knowing they were about to declare war, took the opportunity to show off their new bomb knowing that there wouldn't be a chance to do so at a later stage.
Although the American propaganda would suggest the Americans won WW2, it was really the Russians, both in Europe and in Japan.
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Jiska
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- #31
I highly suggest that all history buffs grab a copy of this DVD set : http://www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/171860824718
"Untold History of the United States" - Oliver Stone
Very very well done. 10 odd episodes covering history from 1940 to 2010. Provides some great insights.
"Untold History of the United States" - Oliver Stone
Very very well done. 10 odd episodes covering history from 1940 to 2010. Provides some great insights.
When that bar of Soviet deaths keeps rising... and rising... and rising... wow.
The Russians had one asset: numbers. And by Christ did they spend them.
Are you sure about that?
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We Exist To Win Premierships
Thanks to the victory at Midway by the US Australia was probably spared an intense military campaign and potential invasion of its northern borders.
If the US fleet is decimated in that battle Japan it makes a big difference to the war in the Pacific.
Without the US entering the war the Axis powers would not have been defeated.
Jiska
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- #36
Not at all true. The US no doubt saved Australia being properly invaded, but the Russians would have most likely have defeated Japan without America dropping two nuclear bombs and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. And it was the Russians that ultimately defeated Hitler and the German Army.
No doubt western propaganda would have a different outlook, just as you'd think, reading around, that the US won the Vietnam war
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We Exist To Win Premierships
imagine the world if Russia did deliver defeat to Japan and Europe alone.
F me
that in itself justifies the US dropping the bomb and saved hundreds of millions and generations of death
F me
that in itself justifies the US dropping the bomb and saved hundreds of millions and generations of death
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The way the Japanese government, under their grandson of a war criminal Prime Minister, carry on about their WWII crimes it's impossible to feel sympathy.
Impossible to feel sympathy for the civilians killed in the bombings?
As to the earlier point that the Japanese wouldn't have surrendered without using nukes; the main sticking point in the negotiations was regarding the Emperor staying in power. The Americans did in fact put a provision in the 'unconditional' treaty stating that the Emperor could stay on, however it was buried under so much ambiguous wording that the Japanese completely missed it. The Japanese had no illusions about keeping Korea/Manchuria; the Soviets would have taken them regardless, and without much trouble.
On top of all that, even Eisenhower stated that the nukes weren't justifiable. Though as Malifice rightly points out the conventional bombing over the long run cost far more lives.
In the end the only true "justification"(again as stated before) is that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were basically a 'back off' message to the Soviets.
Japan got off lightly for WWII
Japan the country? Sure. The Japanese people? Nope.
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Totally agree. The Japanese emperor should of got the same treatment as Mussolini and been hung from a tree by a meat hook.
They suffered far less than them German people. What the Japanese did in their occupied territories was worse than anything the Germans did, yet we don't have it drummed into us at every turn, most going through school now would have no idea about what they did.
I feel the same sympathy for them as they felt for the people their country murdered, raped and mutilated and forced to do degenerate acts
Power Raid
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What was the name of that "hospital" where the Japanese carried out horrendous experiments?
L57 or something?
I couldn't sleep after watching them deep freeze a guys arm and then hit it with a hammer. It shattered like glass and the doctors were laughing at the guys reaction.
People can be so cruel
L57 or something?
I couldn't sleep after watching them deep freeze a guys arm and then hit it with a hammer. It shattered like glass and the doctors were laughing at the guys reaction.
People can be so cruel
TubbsFarquhar
TheBrownDog
Unit 731 might be the one you're thinking of? Seriously ****** up s**t.
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- #47
Yep, and the Yanks recruited the scientists post war.
One of the reasons I visited Harbin in 1986.
I also went to Yasukuni Shrine to pay my respects to the Kamikazes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasukuni_Shrine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_Yasukuni_Shrine
There are alternatives to Yasakuni if you want to pay respect.
Even the Emperor doesn't go to Yasakuni
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Your lot did the same to a people I regard as brothers and sisters.
People are going on about unit 731 and its experiments. they were horrible. The japs used to chain Chinese to poles certain distances from dropping chemical and biological weapons. Then measure the results. The americans pardoned the chief scientists and gave them homes and jobs. Even worse was what the British did deliberately exposing aboriginals to the fallout of nuclear detonations, then holding them at gun point to measure the results. We are told our soldiers fought to stop that very s**t happening. These same soldiers, did the same s**t themselves.
Your lot did the same to a people I regard as brothers and sisters.
People are going on about unit 731 and its experiments. they were horrible. The japs used to chain Chinese to poles certain distances from dropping chemical and biological weapons. Then measure the results. The americans pardoned the chief scientists and gave them homes and jobs. Even worse was what the British did deliberately exposing aboriginals to the fallout of nuclear detonations, then holding them at gun point to measure the results. We are told our soldiers fought to stop that very s**t happening. These same soldiers, did the same s**t themselves.
I'm Chinese
