Inverdale comes clean?

[BTige]

Is this a case of His Oilyness admitting that union really is nothing more than a gloryfied kickathon?

The last two paragraphs from Inverdoils column at Scrum.com:

"And ending where we began, by returning to the subject of kicking. For all the talk of the 15-man game , and endless recycling of possession, and phase after phase of continuous free-flowing rugby, last weekend's thunderous semi-final between Leicester and Llanelli was proof yet again that goal-kickers win and lose matches more than any other player on the field. Had Stephen Jones struck either a penalty or a drop-goal attempt slightly better just before the break, the Welsh side would be going to the final.
Instead, Tim Stimpson ended up as the hero of the hour. The lesson is clear at all levels of the game. As defences become more watertight, and space is at more of a premium, scoring chances have to be taken with both hands. Or both feet. Like Gary Player used to say about his golf - the more he practised the luckier he got - so the importance of the hours spent metronomically striking the ball towards the posts cannot be overstated. In fact, why not just make the Zurich Championship play-offs a goal-kicking competition? Different."

Different? Isn't that what already happens?

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

In the Northern Hemisphere maybe but down here we tend to regard Rugby as a game of running and try scoring

You Northerners haven't got a clue have you ?

Boy are you gonna get massacred in the World Cup if you come down here with that attitude ...

Goalkicking is for losers who can't score trys.

 

[The Power Guy]

I seem to recall a certain English Rugby identity calling Australian Rugby "boring". You beat us at Twickenham last November. How? You kicked drop goals.
I suppose scoring trys is considered boring to your soccer/ rugby team.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

yep - one of the most cowardly displays I've seen in the modern era that one.

Wilkinson too gutless to take on the Wallaby midfield, so he just drop kicks another goal.

what a complete LOSER.

oh and Clive Woodwards, er, 'performance in the press confrence afterwards was a disgrace.

He was so rude, abrasive, arrogant, self-serving, carping and mean spirited I thought for a moment it was Aussie Rules back in Australkia and I was watching John Elliottt, Graham MacMahon or some other oaf making a fool of himself.

... and England seriously belive they are a chance to win the World Cup - good greif what sort of rubbish is that ?

can't run, can't pass, can't ruck, can't tackle, have not a clue how to play modern attacking Rugby.

All they know is goal kicking - they are bit like the Naas Botha led Springboks from 20 years ago - not a Rugby team, just a goal kicking team.

utter rubbish and a complete blot on the game

England to win the World Cup ? - in your dreams

The Lions showed last year that they can run the ball through the 3/4ers with flair and pace, but crikey ! - don't expect the English to do likewise.

Its not the way they play the game - for some reason, best explained by them I guess, they seem to think the game is about kicking goals.

cheers

 

[BTige]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
In the Northern Hemisphere maybe but down here we tend to regard Rugby as a game of running and try scoring

Maybe that's the case, but it's still all relative. Even downunder it's a static game compared to real Rugby.

I hope what you refer to as my lot (Hate the English kick n kwapers) do get beat in any comp by whoever they meet.

Go Wales
Go AB's
Go Wannabe's

 

[colin]

In fairness, and I'm far from being an English fan (as I'm Irish ), England aren't as bad as they used to be. Remember Will Carling's team, Christ they were depressing to watch, never making any attampt to spin out out wide, unless they were 100 points up against some no-hopers from Swaziland or something.

Nowadays at least they try to play a running game some of the time.

What with the likes of Robinson and Healy in the backs, at least they have some exciting players.

As for the lions having some flair in th 3/4s, well that was 100% Irish! Brian O'Driscoll and Rob Henderson are top players, when Hendo is fit of course).

Dricco is GOD!!

 

[Brett Li]

Blood Stained Baby & Tige,

Arrange these words into a sentence:

"I, a, chip, my, on, shoulder, have,"

shall we stop the Pommie bashing?

 

[BTige]

Originally posted by Brett Li
Blood Stained Baby & Tige,

Arrange these words into a sentence:

"I, a, chip, my, on, shoulder, have,"

shall we stop the Pommie bashing?

Very cryptic.

 

[Lionheart2]

Originally posted by BTige


Maybe that's the case, but it's still all relative. Even downunder it's a static game compared to real Rugby.

Then what do you consider to be 'real rugby'? (serious question) and who plays this 'real rugby'?

 

[Brett Li]

"Wilkinson too gutless to take on the Wallaby midfield, so he just drop kicks another goal. "

BSA, are you an irrational pommie hater, or is it just Wilko that gets you mad?. I find it incredible that you can call Wilkinson, easily the hardest tackling fly-half, "gutless".

I think we got ourselves a really poor loser here. England won two very tight "tests" the last two times the countries met. Accept it. It doesn't mean every Pom expects to win the World Cup!(despite what you may think to the contrary), anyway, what's wrong with that?, don't the Aussies tend to back themselves?

As for the Pommie bashing and talk of "drop goals", I'm sure you weren't crying into your VB when Janie deBeer dropped 6 to put England out of the last World Cup. Are the Springboks "gutless" or is this just something the Poms excel at?.

Seriously, why do you hate England so much? Have you ever been?

 

[Brett Li]

"I hope what you refer to as my lot (Hate the English kick n kwapers) do get beat in any comp by whoever they meet. "

BTige, why do you live in a country you so obviously hate?

 

[BTige]

Brett, I don't hate the UK or England. But when it comes to RU I always support whoever the English are playing, they are the evil empire of World Sport.

Beside's, how do you know I'm not Welsh?

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

I've criticised any team in the past or present fdor relying on goal kicking to win games.

I've had a go at the Naas Botha-led Springboks, I've had a go at various All Black sides that have relied on goal kicking to win games, I've ebven had a go at Wallaby teams that kick too many goals.

Goal kicking is blot on the game.

What makes me angry is the craven, stupid arrogance of Clive Woodward and his acolyte Johhnny Wilkinson for insisting that England are somehow a powerful rugby team because they win games by kicking goals.

and not just penalties either - drop - goals

a fly half who prefers to drop goals rather than pass outside and set up try scoring opportunities as a gutless wonder, a gimp, and a loser.

Wilkinson and Co. are gonna get their arses kicked so badly if they think winning that World Cup is a matter of drop kicking goals.

And yes BrettLi - I did cry in my VB when Janie DBeer won that game with drop-goals. I tought it was a fuking disgrace actually.

The sooner a drop goal is awarded just 1 point or even better banned from the game altogether the better the game will be.

Its not a question of hating Poms - if they played a good game of running, attacking, exciting rugby - I would be singing thier praises, but they don't - so I feel entirely justified in calling them imposters and their game an eyesore.

cheers

 

[Brett Li]

"Its not a question of hating Poms - if they played a good game of running, attacking, exciting rugby - I would be singing thier praises, but they don't - so I feel entirely justified in calling them imposters and their game an eyesore. "

Were you watching "Mork & Mindy" when the six-nations were on?

 

[Booze Hound]

And Australia played lots of exciting rugby in the last World Cup didn't they?

That's sarcasm by the way.

 

[Brett Li]

"What makes me angry is the craven, stupid arrogance of Clive Woodward and his acolyte Johhnny Wilkinson for insisting that England are somehow a powerful rugby team because they win games by kicking goals. "

define arrogance?. England have beaten Australia the last two times they played them, they beat South Africa the last three times they have played them. I would have thought, traditionally, these team represented a "benchmark" most Northern Hemisphere teams would have aimed for.

They are not a powerful team because they kick goals they are a powerful team because against Southern Hemisphere teams they have played recently, they have score more points than the opposition. Roll yer neck back in a accept that FACT!.

I have never seen Wilko crowing about any success, if anything he strikes me as a subdued mature youngster. Pleas tell me a time when the aussie haven't backed themselves and mouthed off about their talent (a certain Campo springs to mind) and I'll show you a flying fire engine.

BSA, you comments so far have just demonstrated that you are a pommie hater with a real chip on his shoulder.

See if one of your Pommie chums will kindly lend you a video of the England/Ireland game you so obviously missed while crying into your VB.........

 

[colin]

Originally posted by Brett Li



See if one of your Pommie chums will kindly lend you a video of the England/Ireland game you so obviously missed while crying into your VB.........

Hey can't you pick another video instead? Romania or something

 

[BTige]

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel
Its not a question of hating Poms - if they played a good game of running, attacking, exciting rugby - I would be singing thier praises, but they don't - so I feel entirely justified in calling them imposters and their game an eyesore.

cheers

That's like hating someone for dumping excrement in your cesspit.

 

[NYPomme]

Bloodstained BIGOT!!!!!!

Originally posted by Bloodstained Angel

oh and Clive Woodwards........
He was so rude, abrasive, arrogant, self-serving, carping and mean spirited
... and England seriously belive they are a chance to win the World Cup - good greif what sort of rubbish is that ?

can't run, can't pass, can't ruck, can't tackle, have not a clue how to play modern attacking Rugby.


You wrote this..... then followed it up with this...


Wilkinson and Co. are gonna get their arses kicked so badly if they think winning that World Cup is a matter of drop kicking goals.

(re: kicking display) I tought it was a fuking disgrace actually.



this too....


You Northerners haven't got a clue have you ?

Boy are you gonna get massacred in the World Cup if you come down here with that attitude ...


...are you are hypocrit as well as racist? Never heard Woodward use language, rant or carp on like you, Bloodstained Bigot - did anyone else?



All they know is goal kicking - they are bit like the Naas Botha led Springboks from 20 years ago - not a Rugby team, just a goal kicking team.

utter rubbish and a complete blot on the game

England to win the World Cup ? - in your dreams


Judging by success of the Australian team in the last world cup - I would have thought you would have backed a team you consider a 'kicking team'

Doesn't matter what the subject is - you just go for the easy option - and the pommie bashing kit comes out.....I mean, your offensive comments on a cricket thread last month prompted this reply from another member.


..PS. IT'S ACTUALLY VERY GOOD ADVICE IF YOU ONLY LISTEN TO IT........

Originally posted by Dipper
BSA,

What gives mate?

You're a good guy & enjoy a lot of what you post but you have some deep rooted hatred of England/the English.

Any excuse for it to come out & the bile just flows-there have been so many examples of it I just don't understand why.Maybe you should preface any of your comments regarding England with a statement of your prejudice.


clearly words that went straight over your head last month.
Now I find you again - this time on Rugby - up to your old tricks.

By the way - I'm sure everyone can imagine that you don't think the England CRICKET team can bat, bowl, catch, run, pass, ruck, tackle, ski, paint, ride, sing, dance, skate, read, write, speak, or walk either - so please resist the urge to update anyone on the bile you where posting next door on the cricket site ......for that matter, can't you just cut it out altogether?.....PLEASE

 

[BTige]

Originally posted by Brett Li
"That's like hating someone for dumping excrement in your cesspit"

Who's the excrement?. What's the Cess pit? Please explain

Less of your impertinence, away with you!

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

Well I do apologise

I had no idea I wasn't allowed to barrack English people ...

Oh and by the way - with a mother from Wolverhampton and a Father from Great Yarmouth, I think I'm as English as any of you.

cheers

 

[NYPomme]

Originally posted by Brett Li
"I had no idea I wasn't allowed to barrack English people ...

Oh and by the way - with a mother from Wolverhampton and a Father from Great Yarmouth, I think I'm as English as any of you. "

Pommie hater, from 100% pommie-stock. This gets harder to follow every posting......

...yep, I'm recommending less internet and more therapy!

ps. BSA you are 50% more brit than me - maybe I should be barracking you!!!!!!!!

 

[Booze Hound]

Angel

The problem isn't barracking English people. Believe me, the English are more tolerant of that than pretty well any other nationality.

The problem for me is when you make downright stupid remarks.

You comment on CW's arrogant remarks last November. What remarks precisely? I watched the post match interviews and, despite much provocation to say England were the 'best team in the World' Clive (and in fact all members of the team) not only refused to say it but highlighted areas which he felt needed improvement. In fact Michael "emphysema" Lynagh was more glowing about the England than anyone else. Clive was, as always. gracious in victory (as he is in defeat) which is more than can be said for players and management from certain other countries over the years including, yes, Australia.

Re that game. Yes, England won through 'the boot' but only because they forced penalties. The same way as Australia beat England two years previously woithout scoring a try. England, as pointed out, also lost to the boot of De Beer in the last World Cup but played most of the 'ball in hand' rugby.

This 'boring England' tag just doesn't stand up. Even during the supposed 'negative' Carling era they played with as much dash as, oh lets's say Ireland, do at the moment. The problem is, and has been for some years, England have to play twice as well for half the praise. I didn't see Australia being knocked after the mind numbing World Cup final in 99, or the All Blacks when they 'grind out' a win.

With regard to the European Semi Final that prompted John Inverdale's comments and started this thread. Did any of you see the game. On a day of really foul weather Llanelli played a game which had two tactics in attack. Kick from 9 or kick from 10. These were the tactics they would have used in dry weather. Leicester looked to move the ball early and, because of the weather, this initially cost them. At the start of the 2nd half they switched to playing dynamically through the forwards and, gradually, fought back. Even then they used the backs well and cleverly. The win was well deserved because they played all the positive rugby (and sealed it with the finest kick I've ever seen in a Union game - I laughed so hard....).

I have discussed, more than once in the company of a couple of the posters here, the relative mrits of League and Union at Club and International level. I've held for some time that I would prefer to watch International Union and Club League. Now, at least in respect of the English game, I have come to prefer the club game in union as well. Even clubs like Gloucester, traditionally the home of hard, grinding forward play have a degree of flair, despite a 'kick first' fly half who is, interestingly, French.

If you'd seen the Zurich match between Sale and London Irish last week you might see what I mean (Charlie Hodgson might displace Wilkinson in the England team before long, and there's a young 2nd row called Jones who runs like a centre). This was a fine, flowing game with at least two (of seven) truly outstanding tries.

Final point. If you removed, or devalued, the penalty or drop goal from union, you'd see a lot fewer tries.

 

[NYPomme]

Originally posted by Booze Hound
Angel

The problem isn't barracking English people. Believe me, the English are more tolerant of that than pretty well any other nationality.

The problem for me is when you make downright stupid remarks.

You comment on CW's arrogant remarks last November. What remarks precisely? I watched the post match interviews and, despite much provocation to say England were the 'best team in the World' Clive (and in fact all members of the team) not only refused to say it but highlighted areas which he felt needed improvement. In fact Michael "emphysema" Lynagh was more glowing about the England than anyone else. Clive was, as always. gracious in victory (as he is in defeat) which is more than can be said for players and management from certain other countries over the years including, yes, Australia.

Re that game. Yes, England won through 'the boot' but only because they forced penalties. The same way as Australia beat England two years previously woithout scoring a try. England, as pointed out, also lost to the boot of De Beer in the last World Cup but played most of the 'ball in hand' rugby.

This 'boring England' tag just doesn't stand up. Even during the supposed 'negative' Carling era they played with as much dash as, oh lets's say Ireland, do at the moment. The problem is, and has been for some years, England have to play twice as well for half the praise. I didn't see Australia being knocked after the mind numbing World Cup final in 99, or the All Blacks when they 'grind out' a win.

With regard to the European Semi Final that prompted John Inverdale's comments and started this thread. Did any of you see the game. On a day of really foul weather Llanelli played a game which had two tactics in attack. Kick from 9 or kick from 10. These were the tactics they would have used in dry weather. Leicester looked to move the ball early and, because of the weather, this initially cost them. At the start of the 2nd half they switched to playing dynamically through the forwards and, gradually, fought back. Even then they used the backs well and cleverly. The win was well deserved because they played all the positive rugby (and sealed it with the finest kick I've ever seen in a Union game - I laughed so hard....).

I have discussed, more than once in the company of a couple of the posters here, the relative mrits of League and Union at Club and International level. I've held for some time that I would prefer to watch International Union and Club League. Now, at least in respect of the English game, I have come to prefer the club game in union as well. Even clubs like Gloucester, traditionally the home of hard, grinding forward play have a degree of flair, despite a 'kick first' fly half who is, interestingly, French.

If you'd seen the Zurich match between Sale and London Irish last week you might see what I mean (Charlie Hodgson might displace Wilkinson in the England team before long, and there's a young 2nd row called Jones who runs like a centre). This was a fine, flowing game with at least two (of seven) truly outstanding tries.

Final point. If you removed, or devalued, the penalty or drop goal from union, you'd see a lot fewer tries.

Alas....Bloodstained Angel ain't listening, Hound - why would you when there is so much barracking to be done?
It is actually sad to hear the sort of comments that he makes.....I would have thought most people would be ashamed of making bigoted comments...ah well......

He also knows clearly more about the game than Lynagh and Campo (check my signature picker for the quote - a point that Clive Woodward failed to make in post match interview).

cheers