Is 'Scoring Involvement' the Most Important Stat in Football?

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As most players will tell you...totally overrated stats - watch the bleedin game..oh, that's not pretty, shocking how pooer the game is now, with so much pressure and flicking the ball out and around cos the rules now penalize anyone who goes to grab the ball and dares take a step or too (before being tackled) Just awful. Lost interest after many decades. Neil Kerly Memorial Monday. The fact he was not a Legend of the game according to the AFL but was to anyone who heard his name even shows how much respect anyone should give to this organisation - STAND STAND STAND INSUFFICIENT STANDING Lol
 
As far as icing on the cake is concerned it is a good starlt I think. Over the long term it should bear out those players who's ball use is ultimately effective.

But it is just that icing on the cake. The foundations of a good team include a lot of work rate stuff like running both ways, spoiling, chasing, contested marking, hard ball gets, etc that don't show up in this stat. And if you are no good in those then you'll have no cake to put your icing on so to speak.
 

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Lavender Bushranger said:
Firstly, apologies for starting a thread posing a question, that I then go onto answer. I f**king hate it when people do that. Along with the 'Lol' button reaction (are you laughing at my post, at me, laughing with me, laughing in outrage, being sarcastic, laughing in agreement?? IDK WTF it means), it's the most annoying thing on BigFooty.

But I digress....

Surely we can directly measure a guy's worth by the amount of times he is directly involved in his team's scoring?

Score Involvement: Number of scoring chains where a player was involved with either a disposal, hitout-to-advantage, kick-in or knock-on. If a player has two disposals in the same scoring chain, he is credited with one score involvement.

I'd prefer if some defensive acts were included in it, such as blocks, tackles, spoils etc. - but in terms of a player's offensive impact, this is clearly THE stat that we should be referencing.


Ok. Good chat.
Click to expand...
Are stats important? I say no.

On CPH2005 using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
Lavender Bushranger said:
Firstly, apologies for starting a thread posing a question, that I then go onto answer. I f**king hate it when people do that. Along with the 'Lol' button reaction (are you laughing at my post, at me, laughing with me, laughing in outrage, being sarcastic, laughing in agreement?? IDK WTF it means), it's the most annoying thing on BigFooty.

But I digress....

Surely we can directly measure a guy's worth by the amount of times he is directly involved in his team's scoring?

Score Involvement: Number of scoring chains where a player was involved with either a disposal, hitout-to-advantage, kick-in or knock-on. If a player has two disposals in the same scoring chain, he is credited with one score involvement.

I'd prefer if some defensive acts were included in it, such as blocks, tackles, spoils etc. - but in terms of a player's offensive impact, this is clearly THE stat that we should be referencing.


Ok. Good chat.
Click to expand...

Another in a growing list of extremely useless, boring & inane stats that are primarily used by TV commentators & analysts to make them sound important & knowledgable.

Give me kicks, marks, handballs & tackles any day.
 
RUNVS said:
I wish they had an effective disposal/metres gained stat, so only counting the metres gained of effective disposals.
Click to expand...

Hmm good idea actually, stops people just getting stats by bombing it.


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LordLucifer said:
Give me kicks, marks, handballs & tackles any day.
Click to expand...
Why?

The intent of the game is not to just get the ball. That's all those stats measure. They give no indication if you played well or not.

The intent of the game is to score, and to stop your opponent from scoring.

The premise of the OP was that stats such as kicks, marks, handballs etc. (and others) are not providing any indication as to a player's actual value in terms of impact on the game. Whereas if a statistical category shows that when certain players are involved in a chain of play their team is highly likely to score, surely that makes them an important and valuable player?

That is surely data of value.
 
Lavender Bushranger said:
Score Involvement: Number of scoring chains where a player was involved with either a disposal, hitout-to-advantage, kick-in or knock-on. If a player has two disposals in the same scoring chain, he is credited with one score involvement.
Click to expand...

What is a scoring chain? I'm assuming if there is a ball up or throw in that resets as the start of the next potential scoring chain? If I handball to a teammate and he is tackled and loses the ball then wins it back and the chain of possession leads to a score am I counted as involved in that?
 
LordLucifer said:
Another in a growing list of extremely useless, boring & inane stats that are primarily used by TV commentators & analysts to make them sound important & knowledgable.

Give me kicks, marks, handballs & tackles any day.
Click to expand...
You do realise that the effective version of these stats leads to effective chains, hence score involvements, rather than ineffective stat padding
 
Lavender Bushranger said:
Along with the 'Lol' button reaction (are you laughing at my post, at me, laughing with me, laughing in outrage, being sarcastic, laughing in agreement?? IDK WTF it means), it's the most annoying thing on BigFooty.
Click to expand...
Annoys the hell out of me too.
 
Perhaps better would be total expected points from score involvements. A chain that results in a better scoring opportunity should valued more. eg. a scoring chain that results a certain goal from the goal-line is clearly better than a chain that ends in a set shot from 50 on the boundary.
 

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Coaches talk about post stoppage contested possession count being one they place a lot of credence in.
 
JyeDye said:
No it isn’t and no stat will ever be the most important or the be all and end all. Stats purposes are to help a point not build it. You watch a game and notice something and look at the stats to further that point.
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The only important stat is the score.
And you only have the lead that stat at the end of each match.
Even the composite for the year is less important.
 
RUNVS said:
I wish they had an effective disposal/metres gained stat, so only counting the metres gained of effective disposals.
Click to expand...
To take it a step further, I believe there is a rating on executing difficult kicks to advantage.

A 40m attacking kick into the middle would have a great impact than a 40m kick along the boundary for instance. Even if the distance forward was shorter.
 
And AFL Player Ratings have got to be the most questionable. For instance, Ed Richards is rated significantly higher than Sam Docherty.

And Jarrod Lyons is equal to Sam Walsh who is significantly worse than Hewett.

Go figure….
 
FRUMPY said:
Are stats important? I say no.
BigFooty.com mobile app
Click to expand...
Of course they are. Every professional sport around the world uses team or individual stats for a wide range of reasons.

Without them your left with a bunch of individual subjective opinions trying to make decisions over large sample sizes and datasets. It's impossible.

The key is the intelligent use of stats, the stats themselves are just data.
 
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