No Oppo Supporters Jack Watts - Traded to PA for pick 31, Thanks Jack

[Saint]

Exactly the type of player who would be better in a good team. It almost seemed like a shame that he was playing in a bad team that looked like it might never get better and I think Melbourne would have got good return for trading him in a deal which would have been good for player and club.

But now that he's improving and the club is improving, how good would it be to see him being a dominant lead-up outside player on the wing or forward for the Demons. Would be one of the great vindications in AFL history if this were to occur over the next 2-3 years.

Very happy for a guy who's copped way too much flack his whole career, as just a 24 yr old.

 

[Topkent]

[QUOTE="Saint, post: 39282051, member: 22426"]Exactly the type of player who would be better in a good team. It almost seemed like a shame that he was playing in a bad team that looked like it might never get better and I think Melbourne would have got good return for trading him in a deal which would have been good for player and club.

But now that he's improving and the club is improving, how good would it be to see him being a dominant lead-up outside player on the wing or forward for the Demons. Would be one of the great vindications in AFL history if this were to occur over the next 2-3 years.

Very happy for a guy who's copped way too much flack his whole career, as just a 24 yr old.[/QUOTE]

I hate this line of thinking, who doesn't look better in a good team ?

the only benefit it would have had is that he would have sat in the 2's until his intensity had risen to AFL standard , meaning there wouldn't have been as much pressure either

 

[Saint]

[QUOTE="Saint, post: 39282051, member: 22426"]Exactly the type of player who would be better in a good team. It almost seemed like a shame that he was playing in a bad team that looked like it might never get better and I think Melbourne would have got good return for trading him in a deal which would have been good for player and club.

But now that he's improving and the club is improving, how good would it be to see him being a dominant lead-up outside player on the wing or forward for the Demons. Would be one of the great vindications in AFL history if this were to occur over the next 2-3 years.

Very happy for a guy who's copped way too much flack his whole career, as just a 24 yr old.

I hate this line of thinking, who doesn't look better in a good team ?

the only benefit it would have had is that he would have sat in the 2's until his intensity had risen to AFL standard , meaning there wouldn't have been as much pressure either[/QUOTE]

People who win their own ball look better in bad teams because there's lots of ball to be won. People who would be great outside runners and receivers do better when somebody else can win them the ball and the ball is moving freely.

Jack Watts would have been an outright gun at Hawthorn or Geelong from year 1 (maybe 2), he would have taken 5+ marks a game and probably averaged 1-2 goals with loads of inside 50's. Not just because he'd get more delivery, but he's the kind of guy who uses space and time well so could do with fast ball movement. He'd have done well under Port's current game plan and probably the Kangas and Eagles too.

Have a look at Bernie Vince's numbers to see somebody who does better at a worse team than a better team.

 

[Topkent]

I hate this line of thinking, who doesn't look better in a good team ?

the only benefit it would have had is that he would have sat in the 2's until his intensity had risen to AFL standard , meaning there wouldn't have been as much pressure either

People who win their own ball look better in bad teams because there's lots of ball to be won. People who would be great outside runners and receivers do better when somebody else can win them the ball and the ball is moving freely.

Jack Watts would have been an outright gun at Hawthorn or Geelong from year 1 (maybe 2), he would have taken 5+ marks a game and probably averaged 1-2 goals with loads of inside 50's. Not just because he'd get more delivery, but he's the kind of guy who uses space and time well so could do with fast ball movement. He'd have done well under Port's current game plan and probably the Kangas and Eagles too.

Have a look at Bernie Vince's numbers to see somebody who does better at a worse team than a better team.[/QUOTE]

Jack watts wasn't ready for afl football in his first year , wouldn't have mattered if he was surround by brisbanes triple premiership team , the fact is he tried to play a completely uncontested style of footy for his first 7 years which wouldn't cut it at any club at afl level ..

Also your thinking on inside midfielders is wrong, Geelong are struggling for the first time in his career and yet Selwood is having his worst year , you contradict yourself by saying there's plenty of ball to be won? Sure then that inside midfield would be shovelling it to the outside

Bernie Vince is having his best patch of form because he is as motivated as he has ever been since 2009 , not because we are 4-7

 

[Cannon82]

Can you guys sort your quoting out?[UNQUOTE]

[/Quoth the Raven]

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

[/QUOTE]

[/B]

[QUOTE="Saint, post: 39282051, member: 22426"]Exactlked like it might never get bd.

I hate this line of thinking, who doesn't look better in a good team ?

the only benefit it would have had is that he would h[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE="Saint, post: 39282754, member: 22426"]I hate this line of thinking, whoen to AFL standard , meaning there wouldn't have been as much pressure either[/QUOTE]

People who win their own ball loo

Jack Watts would have been an outright gun at Hawthorn or G

Have a look .[/QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Says it all really

 

[Saint]

Selwood's had more clearances this year than any previous, he's just not getting as many disposals because nobody else is winning the contested ball to feed him handballs as well. I wouldn't say Nathan Jones has played much better the last two years than the years prior to that, but he's getting more disposals now that Vince is also winning contested ball.

Jack Watts isn't built for contested footy, more of a James Hird type who works better with a little space and time (and creates his own space and time). If you're waiting for him to develop into a player who wins most of his own footy, you're going to be disappointed. There wouldn't have been much point for a light framed kid to throw himself into contests that he would never win just like Libba never took an overhead contested mark.

Jack and his coaches know what he is and he's going to be bloody good at it. Saying he wasn't trying or was being soft for the previous 6 years is exactly the type of crap he's been copping his whole life and is miles wide of the mark.

 

[Theseventhhamster]

He is soft though and has had sub par work rate for most of his career. If he's not soft then pretty much nobody ever has been. Ok maybe still Morton and a bunch of Richmond guys.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Selwood's had more clearances this year than any previous, he's just not getting as many disposals because nobody else is winning the contested ball to feed him handballs as well. I wouldn't say Nathan Jones has played much better the last two years than the years prior to that, but he's getting more disposals now that Vince is also winning contested ball.

Jack Watts isn't built for contested footy, more of a James Hird type who works better with a little space and time (and creates his own space and time). If you're waiting for him to develop into a player who wins most of his own footy, you're going to be disappointed. There wouldn't have been much point for a light framed kid to throw himself into contests that he would never win just like Libba never took an overhead contested mark.

Jack and his coaches know what he is and he's going to be bloody good at it. Saying he wasn't trying or was being soft for the previous 6 years is exactly the type of crap he's been copping his whole life and is miles wide of the mark.

Spot on mate. He'll be a match-winner when we can a) find the right role for him and b) actually support that role in our side. Until then we're destroying his confidence by continually tearing him down for not doing the things he isn't good at. Although he doesn't really help his case by lagging behind packs, moving slowly towards contests, etc.

 

[Pat_Footy]

Selwood's had more clearances this year than any previous, he's just not getting as many disposals because nobody else is winning the contested ball to feed him handballs as well. I wouldn't say Nathan Jones has played much better the last two years than the years prior to that, but he's getting more disposals now that Vince is also winning contested ball.

Jack Watts isn't built for contested footy, more of a James Hird type who works better with a little space and time (and creates his own space and time). If you're waiting for him to develop into a player who wins most of his own footy, you're going to be disappointed. There wouldn't have been much point for a light framed kid to throw himself into contests that he would never win just like Libba never took an overhead contested mark.

Jack and his coaches know what he is and he's going to be bloody good at it. Saying he wasn't trying or was being soft for the previous 6 years is exactly the type of crap he's been copping his whole life and is miles wide of the mark.

What makes you come to this conclusion? You've just stated that as fact and provided no basis. He has a tall body, reasonable frame and flexible enough. He is able to engage in contested footy if he wanted.

Using Libba as a comparison is just ridiculous - he doesn't have the physical attributes to take contested marks inside 50. Watts does have the physical attributes to lay tackles and get involved.

 

[Saint]

He probably has a weaker core than most inside mids as well as a much higher centre of gravity. He's less able to change direction while laying a tackle than somebody with a lower centre of gravity, and stronger core (somebody more stocky).

These are physical attributes not attitude. Not only does being built like that restrict his inside abilities, it also meant he probably spent the majority of his developmental stages improving his strengths, which is also the result of him probably playing those types of position in his junior years.

It doesn't mean he can't work on his weaknesses, but you don't recruit a tall forward and spend their first years working on their tackling, spoiling and roving work. You send them to the gym to work on their shoulders, contested marking, kicking and running.

Tall and flexible means he should win contested footy? Nonsense. Go to the afl website and rank the players by contested possessions and you scroll to 45th before you find Blicavs as the first "tall, flexible" player then a few ruckmen, all of whom just grab quick kicks out of stoppages.

People need a sense of reality when they talk about players.

 

[Pat_Footy]

He probably has a weaker core than most inside mids as well as a much higher centre of gravity. He's less able to change direction while laying a tackle than somebody with a lower centre of gravity, and stronger core (somebody more stocky).

These are physical attributes not attitude. Not only does being built like that restrict his inside abilities, it also meant he probably spent the majority of his developmental stages improving his strengths, which is also the result of him probably playing those types of position in his junior years.

It doesn't mean he can't work on his weaknesses, but you don't recruit a tall forward and spend their first years working on their tackling, spoiling and roving work. You send them to the gym to work on their shoulders, contested marking, kicking and running.

Tall and flexible means he should win contested footy? Nonsense. Go to the afl website and rank the players by contested possessions and you scroll to 45th before you find Blicavs as the first "tall, flexible" player then a few ruckmen, all of whom just grab quick kicks out of stoppages.

People need a sense of reality when they talk about players.

That is your explanation as to why he can't get a contested footy? A weak core and higher centre of gravity - What a load of shite. Nobody is asking him to be a contested inside midfielder.

 

[Topkent]

That is your explanation as to why he can't get a contested footy? A weak core and higher centre of gravity - What a load of shite. Nobody is asking him to be a contested inside midfielder.

Hasn't stopped Bont, Watson fyfe etc who are all around the same size

 

[deeco]

Hasn't stopped Bont, Watson fyfe etc who are all around the same size

Bont and Watson are slow, fat plodders. Wouldn't try and compare anyone to Fyfe, let alone poor Jack..

 

[Topkent]

Bont and Watson are slow, fat plodders. Wouldn't try and compare anyone to Fyfe, let alone poor Jack..

The bloke was saying Watts was tall , thus no core strength

I was comparing relative height midfielders who were strong through the core

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

The bloke was saying Watts was tall , thus no core strength

I was comparing relative height midfielders who were strong through the core

Not that I buy into this argument but leg length would be important in core strength/centre of gravity.

Anyway, this is a thread for Melbourne fans to talk about Jack - opposition fans are welcome but not if they are starting arguments.

 

[deeco]

The bloke was saying Watts was tall , thus no core strength

I was comparing relative height midfielders who were strong through the core

Comparing out and out inside mids to Jack isn't really a good comparison. But to be fair, completely agree with you that core strength being his problem is a load of s**t.

 

[Topkent]

Not that I buy into this argument but leg length would be important in core strength/centre of gravity.

Anyway, this is a thread for Melbourne fans to talk about Jack - opposition fans are welcome but not if they are starting arguments.

He has good core strength though, seen it especially against Geelong
Just doesnt have the confidence to use it properly..

Oh come on mate we never talk about Jack !

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

I can't believe our club hasn't invested in an Ab King Pro

 

[Cannon82]

I can't believe our club hasn't invested in an Ab King Pro

Problem is those things are usually advertised on infomercials late at night and any club officials watching probably end up ringing the chat line ads. Completely understandable.

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Problem is those things are usually advertised on infomercials late at night and any club officials watching probably end up ringing the chat line ads. Completely understandable.

Perhaps if quality viewing like Big Brother up late was still on the TV Dave Misson would be able to see the Ab King Pro adverts and players like Jack Watts would flourish.

I blame channel 10 for selling Big Brother to channel 9 for all Jack Watts' deficiencies.

#bringbackMikeGoldman

 

[Djcjdees]

That is your explanation as to why he can't get a contested footy? A weak core and higher centre of gravity - What a load of shite. Nobody is asking him to be a contested inside midfielder.

Yes they are. Most people's main gripe with him is his lack of contested possessions

 

[Saint]

Watts averages 5.5 contested possessions per match. The same as Jarrad McVeigh and Heretier Lumumba and more than Houli and Enright.

No wonder Melbourne have been so poorly run, the fans don't even understand the difference between player types. Apparently everyone should be good at everything and core strength is a made up attribute to sell ab-pros.

I'll leave you to it.

 

[Djcjdees]

Watts averages 5.5 contested possessions per match. The same as Jarrad McVeigh and Heretier Lumumba and more than Houli and Enright.

No wonder Melbourne have been so poorly run, the fans don't even understand the difference between player types. Apparently everyone should be good at everything and core strength is a made up attribute to sell ab-pros.

I'll leave you to it.

Correct. Won't stop dees fans complaining that Watts isn't Fyfe though