Super Rugby Japan and Argentina to join Super Rugby
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I don't mind the expansion so much as I'm concerned about the oddball conferences they are going to have.
LukeParkerno1
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Love it in theory. Hate he fact they are in a ridiculous conference. Just get rid of the conferences.
Maester
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They're never going to get rid of the conferences as they reduce travel and provide more blockbuster local games.
I think the format is a little weird but it's clearly a precursor to further expansion in Asia and the Americas - which has the potential to grow broadcasting and sponsorship revenue enormously. I think it's necessary and it'll also be great for the growth of the global game.
From the perspective of the Australian teams it's not radically different. Our teams will each play 6 matches against Australian teams (previously 8), 5 against NZ teams (previously 4), 3 against South African teams (previously 4) and 1 against the Japanese or the Argentinian team. So all but 2 matches of all our teams will be played in Australia or NZ. The season's also been reduced from 16 to 15 games so overall it's probably going to be a little easier on the players.
I think the format is a little weird but it's clearly a precursor to further expansion in Asia and the Americas - which has the potential to grow broadcasting and sponsorship revenue enormously. I think it's necessary and it'll also be great for the growth of the global game.
From the perspective of the Australian teams it's not radically different. Our teams will each play 6 matches against Australian teams (previously 8), 5 against NZ teams (previously 4), 3 against South African teams (previously 4) and 1 against the Japanese or the Argentinian team. So all but 2 matches of all our teams will be played in Australia or NZ. The season's also been reduced from 16 to 15 games so overall it's probably going to be a little easier on the players.
Yeh the conference concept isn't going anywhere as Maester says. It reduces travel costs greatly and, at least for Aus/SA/NZ teams it provides greater potential for crowds with local rivalries and such. At least that'd be their argument.
It allows for greater TV and sponsorship and in a more global sense it provides greater development for the Argentinian and Japanese rugby programs. The Pumas coach has already said that he will only be picking locally based players when their team is introduced into the tournament. Providing that kind of incentive to return to Argentina is a pretty big step for them.
Reducing the playing time on the athletes is a good thing too. Some of these guys have been playing professional rugby since about February which is a pretty ridiculous physical workload to put on them in such a taxing sport.
It allows for greater TV and sponsorship and in a more global sense it provides greater development for the Argentinian and Japanese rugby programs. The Pumas coach has already said that he will only be picking locally based players when their team is introduced into the tournament. Providing that kind of incentive to return to Argentina is a pretty big step for them.
Reducing the playing time on the athletes is a good thing too. Some of these guys have been playing professional rugby since about February which is a pretty ridiculous physical workload to put on them in such a taxing sport.
Maester
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Yep, good point. If a significant number of the European based players return then that Argentinian team will be very strong in Super Rugby. They'll destroy some of the weaker forward packs.
Having the national team play in super rugby has some positives and negatives. On the positive side, they should be the most cohesive team in world rugby. On the negative side they'll have to rotate their squad a lot to ensure their players all get adequate game time and preparation for test rugby (including the likely reserves and guys outside the best 23). This could affect their results at super rugby level and maybe also devalue the tournament a little. Super rugby shouldn't be used as a succession of trial games for test rugby. They have to take it seriously.
It will be interesting to see how they and Japan manages to populate their teams. For Argentina, they surely won't be able to convince every single national side player to return home and play Super rugby. Some will stay in Europe. I wonder what their import rules will be, will they be able to attract players from Europe who are not Argentinian to play with them?
And with Japan, how will their Super rugby side affect their national comp? Will that become a feeder comp for the Super side which then becomes a pseudo-national team, like Maester said?
And how successful will each side be in attracting Aus/NZ/SA players to play with them? Not many guys would choose to play in Argentina I think just due to the travel requirements. And Japan has been attracting players because they pay higher than Super rugby but now if the Japanese side is constrained by the Super salary cap, things will change somewhat.
And with Japan, how will their Super rugby side affect their national comp? Will that become a feeder comp for the Super side which then becomes a pseudo-national team, like Maester said?
And how successful will each side be in attracting Aus/NZ/SA players to play with them? Not many guys would choose to play in Argentina I think just due to the travel requirements. And Japan has been attracting players because they pay higher than Super rugby but now if the Japanese side is constrained by the Super salary cap, things will change somewhat.
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I would think Japan and Argentina would work in Super Rugby best if they serve as "Regional" teams for Asia (Japan base, source players from throughout Asia) and South America (Argentina base, source players from throughout South America).
Combine the best of the young local talent coming though the local teams in the region and returning Internationals (in Argentina's case as they clearly won't get them all) or the Internationals who do go to Japan long term but not on huge money. Could mean that Argentina still have players in Europe but get to mix though some via their Super Rugby team while developing their junior players and also helping the players in the region.
Likewise with Japan, but can't help but think that side will be more a side filled with expats than locals
Combine the best of the young local talent coming though the local teams in the region and returning Internationals (in Argentina's case as they clearly won't get them all) or the Internationals who do go to Japan long term but not on huge money. Could mean that Argentina still have players in Europe but get to mix though some via their Super Rugby team while developing their junior players and also helping the players in the region.
Likewise with Japan, but can't help but think that side will be more a side filled with expats than locals
Maester
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Argentina have said they will not be picking European based players for the test team from 2016.
"Until last year 90% of Pumas played in Europe," Daniel Hourcade told Midi Olympique. "The Argentinian franchise which will join Super Rugby in 2016, will therefore change things. The aim is to bring all our internationals back home.
"The rule will be the following: Any player who plays outside Argentina will not be able to wear the Puma jersey. Argentina will follow the Australian and New Zealand policy. The players are free to choose between the money and the jersey."
Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/argentina/rugby/story/248589.html#pHRZdEjMjXt7DZ4q.99
"The rule will be the following: Any player who plays outside Argentina will not be able to wear the Puma jersey. Argentina will follow the Australian and New Zealand policy. The players are free to choose between the money and the jersey."
Read more at http://www.espnscrum.com/argentina/rugby/story/248589.html#pHRZdEjMjXt7DZ4q.99
Maester
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I don't think the Argentinian side will have any imports - or need any. Their Pampas team made up entirely of locals (mostly young players who had played for Argentina U-20's in the last 3 years or so) beat all the Australian Super Rugby A teams earlier this year. Then the core of that team played for the Pumas against Ireland and Scotland in the June internationals and were very competitive (3 close losses). A few of those players also got game time in the Rugby Championship and did well. That will be the core of the new super rugby team and those guys will now have an extra year to develop and prepare. Then you add the guys that do return from Europe and I think they'll be quite strong. I imagine there will be more than a handful - there will be guys motivated to play international rugby. And I'm sure a lot of them will also be quite happy to be able to live in Argentina again.
The Japanese national comp is the company based league. I don't think it has any growth in it while it is what it is. But the seasons are different anyway. There's already a few guys that play both Super Rugby and the Top League (Potgieter, Horie, Sau etc). Not sure how it will work though. The Japanese may try and centrally contract most of the national team players so that they can just focus on Super Rugby and test matches and not have to play Top League. Then the Top League would act more as a feeder league for the next level guys.
Btw, there is no competitive wide super rugby salary cap. The ARU implement a salary cap, but it's just for the 5 Aussie teams. Not sure how it works in SA and NZ but I'm pretty sure the Australian teams pay more on salaries than both. I'm pretty sure the Japanese team will be able to spend whatever it likes. Though it won't have the money or the ambition to be the next Toulon. The JRFU wants to develop the national team and from all reports it will be the national team plus a limited number of imports to provide strength and depth. If they have a squad of 35 I doubt more than 10 would be ineligible for Japan.
