Kane Lucas

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CrippsonBlue said:
I don't disagree, but players need to have awareness on how umps adjudicate. Not making an attempt has been in place for some time now; everyone watching Lucas knew it was going to be called ball but Lucas apparently.


New method to settle debates on BF? I'd prefer a good old fashioned duel myself.


Proof? So watching that footage, are you really claiming Lucas is actually trying to get his arm free but the tackle is so great that to the observer it looks like he is in fact laying completely still? Come on...

He doesn't have to hit the ball, he doesn't have to get his arm free, he just needs to be seen to be trying. If the tackle impedes him to the point that he can only flop his torso around slightly, fine that would still be ball up, but he doesn't move a muscle.
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Have it your way... he is clearly at fault and couldnt do s**t because he just lay there.
 

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invinciBlues said:
You should take a look at how hard you've been arguing that poor adjudication. Its almost like you honestly believe that because of that decision by the ump Lucas had the shittest of s**t games and his performance should be water under the bridge by now.

He had 6 possessions. I wouldnt accept such a poor output from a 1st gamer, why should I accept it from Lucas?
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He had a s**t game... I am not disputing that. but... there were several decisions that were crap. People are blaming Kane for that holding the ball when he could do nothing about it.

Henderson had a s**t game as well... but he gets a pass because 'he has the runs on the board'.

Everyone has been on Lucas's case since the day we recruited him because so many of you had hard-ons to get Talia. But would Talia have been the same player if we had recruited him? Our development of players is shite. We took 3 good young talls and basically killed the careers of 2 of them and Watson is in everyones sights as well to be delisted... but everyone still raves about getting Talia.

We would have screwed his career as well if we had recruited him because we cant develop players.

Casboult... kicked 41.14 in his TAC year... now he cant kick for s**t. What does that tell you?
 
CrippsonBlue said:
No duel? :(
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what weapons?

I'm good with knives, swords, pistols, rifles, and fisticuffs.

I was just saying wrestling because I didnt want to scare you... and grappling like in that picture is straight out of a wrestling handbook... just not the WWE and the like ones.
 
pjhad1 said:
I know
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So what was he supposed to do, let the ball hit the deck with 3 Collingwood players ready to pounce... he would have been castigated even worse if he had done that.

But god forbid that he tries to take the ball, get wrapped up in a tackle he cant get out of and had no priors to dispose of the ball and hope that there is a ball up which allows us to reset 60m out from our goals.

Would have been a good move if the umpire had actually played the correct interpretation...
 
Dramoth said:
He had a s**t game... I am not disputing that. but... there were several decisions that were crap. People are blaming Kane for that holding the ball when he could do nothing about it.

Henderson had a s**t game as well... but he gets a pass because 'he has the runs on the board'.

Everyone has been on Lucas's case since the day we recruited him because so many of you had hard-ons to get Talia. But would Talia have been the same player if we had recruited him? Our development of players is shite. We took 3 good young talls and basically killed the careers of 2 of them and Watson is in everyones sights as well to be delisted... but everyone still raves about getting Talia.

We would have screwed his career as well if we had recruited him because we cant develop players.

Casboult... kicked 41.14 in his TAC year... now he cant kick for s**t. What does that tell you?
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Henderson had a s**t game because he was getting double and triple teamed, he presented as well as he could and covered much ground and got up in the faces of the Collingwood players.

Lucas wasnt even tagged out of the game. I dont even think Buckley even bothered to give him a direct opponent. He went to water the second the intensity of the match became apparent to him. You pointed out earlier about a smart play he did and the commentators agreed it was clever. That was in the first 5 or so minutes of the game when we were still having our way.

Lucas' problem is all mental. Doubt you or anyone at the club can coach or train him out of it.
 
CrippsonBlue said:
I've seen plenty of WWE to know that any grappling can be broken.
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ok... what ever you reckon... are we allowed to take chairs and ladders out onto the field these days? to help out our team mates who are being picked on by the opposition?
 
Dramoth said:
So what was he supposed to do, let the ball hit the deck with 3 Collingwood players ready to pounce... he would have been castigated even worse if he had done that.

But god forbid that he tries to take the ball, get wrapped up in a tackle he cant get out of and had no priors to dispose of the ball and hope that there is a ball up which allows us to reset 60m out from our goals.

Would have been a good move if the umpire had actually played the correct interpretation...
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Next time Cripps plays, watch what he does when he gets tackled. You might be pleasantly surprised at what Lucas should have done.
 
invinciBlues said:
Henderson had a s**t game because he was getting double and triple teamed, he presented as well as he could and covered much ground and got up in the faces of the Collingwood players.

Lucas wasnt even tagged out of the game. I dont even think Buckley even bothered to give him a direct opponent. He went to water the second the intensity of the match became apparent to him. You pointed out earlier about a smart play he did and the commentators agreed it was clever. That was in the first 5 or so minutes of the game when we were still having our way.

Lucas' problem is all mental. Doubt you or anyone at the club can coach or train him out of it.
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That clever move comment by the commentators was 30 seconds before he got wrapped up in that tackle.
 

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Dramoth said:
He had a s**t game... I am not disputing that. but... there were several decisions that were crap. People are blaming Kane for that holding the ball when he could do nothing about it.


We would have screwed his career as well if we had recruited him because we cant develop players.

Casboult... kicked 41.14 in his TAC year... now he cant kick for s**t. What does that tell you?
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Not disputing that several umpiring decisions were poor, especially the one on Lucas, but we see poor decisions every game and from both sides of the fence. But the first thing I thought when I saw him tackled was "FFS look like you're trying to get rid of it". Knowing the way they umpire now they probably still would have paid the free but I would have been more angry. No doubt it's a s**t rule that the umps try to avoid using too often by blowing the whistle straight away until they decide it's time and they wait for, what seems like a minute, and you know the players gone.

That was not the reason Lucas had a poor game and, as I said before, one bad game should not see him dropped. Happy to see him keep getting a chance but, deep down, I think we should have seen more from him in his 5th year.

As for us not being able to develop players, how do you explain the fact that no less than a third of our list are ex-rookies?

Doesn't matter how good you are no one yet has been able to spin straw into gold. How many of our discards have been picked up and had, even halfway, decent careers after we've kept them for a couple of years too long waiting for them to blossom?

It's much more about our list management than it is about our development.
 
Dramoth said:
Where was the rest of the team?

IIRC, we only kicked 1 more goal for the next hour...
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Almost every bloke we put on the park had a piss poor game. Every single one of them though was better than Lucas.

You can blame Murphy's handball - even though his collection was woeful. Taking it on the chest? Come on man!
You can blame the umpire for that one decision - even though he knew he was going to be tackled immediately and didnt try and keep his arms free.
You can even point out that a key position forward had a similar possession count.

None of that, and I mean none of that, will change the fact that when a game has that sort of intensity he looks like a deer caught in headlights. He doesnt have the intestinal fortitude to be a good player in finals.

Thats the ultimate goal right? For our club to play and win finals. If we do ever play finals again and by some strange twist of fate your gods have answered your prayers and he's still on our list then he will be a liability.
 
blue healer said:
Not disputing that several umpiring decisions were poor, especially the one on Lucas, but we see poor decisions every game and from both sides of the fence. But the first thing I thought when I saw him tackled was "FFS look like you're trying to get rid of it". Knowing the way they umpire now they probably still would have paid the free but I would have been more angry. No doubt it's a s**t rule that the umps try to avoid using too often by blowing the whistle straight away until they decide it's time and they wait for, what seems like a minute, and you know the players gone.

That was not the reason Lucas had a poor game and, as I said before, one bad game should not see him dropped. Happy to see him keep getting a chance but, deep down, I think we should have seen more from him in his 5th year.

As for us not being able to develop players, how do you explain the fact that no less than a third of our list are ex-rookies?

Doesn't matter how good you are no one yet has been able to spin straw into gold. How many of our discards have been picked up and had, even halfway, decent careers after we've kept them for a couple of years too long waiting for them to blossom?

It's much more about our list management than it is about our development.
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In a way, you are right. Our list management hasnt been the best... but our development has been atrocious for years as well. Why do our discards not get picked up... it isnt because they were'nt talented. It's because no club could be arsed picking up someone who has been in the system for a number of years... and would need intensive training to get them to where they should be.

While you are at it... out of our senior list of 38 players, can you name the 12 or 13 players who are ex-rookies?

Because I could only see the following:

Tom Bell
Ed Curnow
Jeff Garlett
Michael Jamison
Levi Casboult
Simon White
Andrew Carrazzo
David Ellard

I dont know whether Zach qualifies because he was an international recruit... but I could be wrong.

If you do count him... thats only 9 players from the rookie list and 9 is only 25% of the senior list... who are the others who take it to in excess of 1/3 of our senior list... or were you counting the rookies on the list as well?
 
Dramoth said:
In a way, you are right. Our list management hasnt been the best... but our development has been atrocious for years as well. Why do our discards not get picked up... it isnt because they were'nt talented. It's because no club could be arsed picking up someone who has been in the system for a number of years... and would need intensive training to get them to where they should be.

While you are at it... out of our senior list of 38 players, can you name the 12 or 13 players who are ex-rookies?

Because I could only see the following:

Tom Bell
Ed Curnow
Jeff Garlett
Michael Jamison
Levi Casboult
Simon White
Andrew Carrazzo
David Ellard

I dont know whether Zach qualifies because he was an international recruit... but I could be wrong.

If you do count him... thats only 9 players from the rookie list and 9 is only 25% of the senior list... who are the others who take it to in excess of 1/3 of our senior list... or were you counting the rookies on the list as well?
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Yeah, my apologies, I knew it was 9 but typed a third instead of a quarter. Too late to blame auto-correct?

Probably a s**t excuse anyway as I'm using a PC>
 
invinciBlues said:
Almost every bloke we put on the park had a piss poor game. Every single one of them though was better than Lucas.

You can blame Murphy's handball - even though his collection was woeful. Taking it on the chest? Come on man!
You can blame the umpire for that one decision - even though he knew he was going to be tackled immediately and didnt try and keep his arms free.
You can even point out that a key position forward had a similar possession count.

None of that, and I mean none of that, will change the fact that when a game has that sort of intensity he looks like a deer caught in headlights. He doesnt have the intestinal fortitude to be a good player in finals.

Thats the ultimate goal right? For our club to play and win finals. If we do ever play finals again and by some strange twist of fate your gods have answered your prayers and he's still on our list then he will be a liability.
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Funny... I thought that the games against the dogs and the wet toasters had just as much intensity as the game last night, if not more... but obviously I'm wrong.

Look... you have your views. I have mine. If is still on the list next year and goes on and has a ripper... then it's a win.

If he doesnt make it and the club trades him to another club... I will be following him and seeing how he goes. And if he ends up being a star and all you guys who wanted him gone start bitching and moaning about how we should have kept him. I will go looking through all these 'I hate Kane Lucas, he's useless' posts and pull out choice ones for each poster.

Sound like a plan?
 
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