Michael Hibberd

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Marc_Remillard said:
Are you comparing Hibberd to Vince?

Seriously wtf
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No, I wasn't comparing them. But you seem to put a premium on draft picks. So I asked you whether you were saying the same about Bernie Vince - when he was touted as coming to Melbourne? Were you? Honestly, because we will track back through your history and find out if you aren't consistent.
 
Farm Boy said:
No, I wasn't comparing them. But you seem to put a premium on draft picks. So I asked you whether you were saying the same about Bernie Vince - when he was touted as coming to Melbourne? Were you? Honestly, because we will track back through your history and find out if you aren't consistent.
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Go ahead, knock yourself out. I'm very flattered that you care about my opinion that much.

I think we can do better with that pick, or do you think Hibberd is worth more than a first round pick?
 

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BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!! said:
Because you're hoping that Melbourne get Hibberd for peanuts.
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Comprehension fail.

Quote the post that i have stated that I want to get him. I dare you to. I'm arguing that i think he is worth our third rounder but I would prefer to miss him rather than spending our 2nd. I've been consistent with this.

Why do you feel the need to make things up?
 
Marc_Remillard said:
Comprehension fail.

Quote the post that i have stated that I want to get him. I dare you to. I'm arguing that i think he is worth our third rounder but I would prefer to miss him rather than spending our 2nd. I've been consistent with this.

Why do you feel the need to make things up?
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Melbourne are gunning for Hibberd.

To me that says that they rate him very highly so he's worth more then a 3rd round.
 
Marc_Remillard said:
The Melksham deal was clearly a massive mistake, in my opinion we threw that pick away. If anything it reinforces my opinion not to trade for a player who has been found guilty of being a drug cheat.

Many? How many really good seasons has he had? Two? Other Essendon supporters have already admitted that his last good season was 2014. That equates to a massive risk for a 2nd rounder, especially considering it's our first pick in the draft. Far too risky. For it to be worthwhile he would have to immediately get back to the best he's ever played. Everyone is just assuming it will automatically happen, but it's not guaranteed. This years draft runs deeper than last year, our pick will still get a talented kid. Much prefer that over a 27 with queries over him.

Selection at Essendon last season is irrelevant to what our club will be like next year.

Him being contracted or not is irrelevant to my opinion.
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Hibberd was very solid in 2012 despite missing a chunk with injury (still played 13 games), was outstanding in 2013 and 2014, and after a shaky start to 2015 still ended up averaging 22 disposals, 5 marks a game while shutting a player down. His 2015 is being over-stated here, although it also wasn't as good. But his 2015 is probably better than anyone you currently have.

I think the Melksham trade is an interesting one. I see him as a pure inside-midfielder with still a high ceiling, and given where academy picks pushed the pick we got back to I don't think you overpaid. But there are certainly a lot of risks with him and I don't see how he fits into your side. I would have thought he'd do much better at a side like St Kilda where he could play his best position.

If he goes back to the best he's ever played - which was for several seasons so not a flash in the pan - a second round pick is way unders and he's worth a late first. So it isn't like this is a one sided risk, you have upside as well as downside. And as I said, even 2015 form he'd be a walk up start to your back line. Who else do you have who averages 22 possessions while shutting a man down?

Marc_Remillard said:
Show me evidence that Melbourne thinks he is worth a 2nd round pick

I dare you to. You avoided the last one, let's see if you can prove this claim
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He's just given as much evidence as he has, or is possible. He's heard Melbourne are pushing hard, which seems odd if the player is only worth a third round pick. Which would mean he's fringe or worse.

Nobody gives up established best 22 players for third rounders unless they're in their thirties.
 
Ants said:
Hibberd was very solid in 2012 despite missing a chunk with injury (still played 13 games), was outstanding in 2013 and 2014, and after a shaky start to 2015 still ended up averaging 22 disposals, 5 marks a game while shutting a player down. His 2015 is being over-stated here, although it also wasn't as good. But his 2015 is probably better than anyone you currently have.

I think the Melksham trade is an interesting one. I see him as a pure inside-midfielder with still a high ceiling, and given where academy picks pushed the pick we got back to I don't think you overpaid. But there are certainly a lot of risks with him and I don't see how he fits into your side. I would have thought he'd do much better at a side like St Kilda where he could play his best position.

If he goes back to the best he's ever played - which was for several seasons so not a flash in the pan - a second round pick is way unders and he's worth a late first. So it isn't like this is a one sided risk, you have upside as well as downside. And as I said, even 2015 form he'd be a walk up start to your back line. Who else do you have who averages 22 possessions while shutting a man down?


He's just given as much evidence as he has, or is possible. He's heard Melbourne are pushing hard, which seems odd if the player is only worth a third round pick. Which would mean he's fringe or worse.

Nobody gives up established best 22 players for third rounders unless they're in their thirties.
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Pushing hard? That's a massive jump from being interested. You lot are starting this as a fact, but all i've seen in the media is interest. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but i continually get replies doing this with no back up.

The fact is by the time he plays in 2017 it will be two full seasons since he's had a good full season, even you agree on this. That represents enough risk to put doubt on a 2nd rounder without even considering the drug cheating guilty verdict.

Then there's the other issue of what else we could do with the pick. If it was your club who had the option of packaging that pick with others to get a good first rounder from one of the academy clubs would you have second thoughts? Hibberd will be 27, he may only have 3 years left in him.
 
I reckon Hibberd is worth more than 2nd pick ... but Melksham is worth less than a 2nd so if Essendon trade 2nd pick for Hibberd then it's even over the two trades. This is the sort of attitude that clubs need to take. Not trying to "win" deals and realising that there isn't money to trade but commodities like players and picks.

Having said that I hope pig stays. Love to see him get down to business with his mates Hurley and Baguely in the backline next year. With Francis, Walla and Hartley added to the list we have a pretty decent back six.
 
Like most trades these days the team that the player is at currently values him more than what others are willing to give up.

Hibberd will be chasing $$
Essendon value him as a 2nd round pick. If we don't get this we would rather him stay.
Dees value him as a 3rd round pick - too risky to give up a 2nd

If this is the case it just makes sense for him to stay at Essendon. If the Dees are willing to give up 2nd (like with Melksham) then we will let him go.

Re-signing Hurley is where all of our effort should be going.
 

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fishardansin said:
I reckon Hibberd is worth more than 2nd pick ... but Melksham is worth less than a 2nd so if Essendon trade 2nd pick for Hibberd then it's even over the two trades. This is the sort of attitude that clubs need to take. Not trying to "win" deals and realising that there isn't money to trade but commodities like players and picks.

Having said that I hope pig stays. Love to see him get down to business with his mates Hurley and Baguely in the backline next year. With Francis, Walla and Hartley added to the list we have a pretty decent back six.
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Hooker needs to fit in that back six also.
 
daffo said:
Like most trades these days the team that the player is at currently values him more than what others are willing to give up.

Hibberd will be chasing $$
Essendon value him as a 2nd round pick. If we don't get this we would rather him stay.
Dees value him as a 3rd round pick - too risky to give up a 2nd

If this is the case it just makes sense for him to stay at Essendon. If the Dees are willing to give up 2nd (like with Melksham) then we will let him go.

Re-signing Hurley is where all of our effort should be going.
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There is only one Demon supporter in the thread saying a second round pick isn't fair. Most Essendon supporters rate him higher but think (if he wants to move to Melbourne) that would be the trade that would be done quickly to keep things moving.
 
fishardansin said:
I reckon Hibberd is worth more than 2nd pick ... but Melksham is worth less than a 2nd so if Essendon trade 2nd pick for Hibberd then it's even over the two trades. This is the sort of attitude that clubs need to take. Not trying to "win" deals and realising that there isn't money to trade but commodities like players and picks.
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I don't agree with this view that a few have on here. You need to take every trade on its merit. If they valued Melksham at a second round pick then so be it, who's to say he's not going to fire at Melbourne and finally hit his top 10 pick potential?

I'd be pissed off if we went into future trades thinking gee we did alright out of the last one I guess we can compromise on the next one.

Any edge you can get in trading/drafting etc you take and you don't look back.
 

Yes, badly.

Care to put the pieces together that ends up with the conclusion that they think he is worth a 2nd rounder?

No one else has been able to do it, why don't you have a shot.
 
Ants said:
There is only one Demon supporter in the thread saying a second round pick isn't fair. Most Essendon supporters rate him higher but think (if he wants to move to Melbourne) that would be the trade that would be done quickly to keep things moving.
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No, he got it right
 
Yoda_ said:
What makes you think he isn't worth a 2nd round pick?
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If you actually read my posts you would have realised that I've already stated my reasons, several times in fact. Try to keep up.

Thanks for replying though, reminds me that you still haven't responded to my question, this would have to be the third time I've asked but I'm not surprised that you're avoiding it though, it was truly a bizarre comment.

Yoda_ said:
being guilty as a drug cheat shouldnt be brought up wither but you felt the need #doublestandards
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So what did you mean by #doublestandards?
 
Marc_Remillard said:
Pushing hard? That's a massive jump from being interested. You lot are starting this as a fact, but all i've seen in the media is interest. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but i continually get replies doing this with no back up.

The fact is by the time he plays in 2017 it will be two full seasons since he's had a good full season, even you agree on this. That represents enough risk to put doubt on a 2nd rounder without even considering the drug cheating guilty verdict.

Then there's the other issue of what else we could do with the pick. If it was your club who had the option of packaging that pick with others to get a good first rounder from one of the academy clubs would you have second thoughts? Hibberd will be 27, he may only have 3 years left in him.
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No, I don't. I'm saying his 2015 season, while down by his standards, was better than anyone you have this year. Which I included stats about and said in the post you quoted.

You're the one who said "For it to be worthwhile he would have to immediately get back to the best he's ever played". Which is ridiculous. At his best he was unlucky to miss the AA squad (I can post news article links if you want saying as such). If he gets back to his best it won't make the trade worthwhile, it will make it a HUGE win for Melbourne. If he continues at his 2015 performance he'll still be a good buy for a second round pick. Especially with 11 odd academy players meaning your pick is likely to become a mid-thirties pick.

You've really listed a single "issue", which is the time off and his mental state getting back. He's missed one year. Players miss a year all the time due to injury, and have the same concerns. You don't see their value devalued like you're implying Hibberd's should be.

And of course you can do other things with the pick. But none of them are likely to get you as good a shot at a quality player as using it on Hibberd.
 
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