Other Muhammad Ali beats Sir Donald Bradman to title of greatest

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I heard that Eddy Merckx missed out on the top 100 completely. That probably sums up the list, not really worth discussing.
 
Bullshit. Ali IMO wasnt even the best boxer of all time.

Bradman is the best ever cricketer by a long, long way.

Eddie Merckx >>>>>>. Lance Armstrong. I wonder how many TDF's Lance would have won if he tried to win other tours like Merckx did.

Also, Maradona > Pele, WTF?
 

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Cycling is a yuppie sport, and one thing history has shown, is that yuppies are basically useless.

In all seriousness, until the working class embraces a sport, you can't honestly include a sportsman from that sport in this discussion. The top 5 should come basically exclusively from:

Soccer
Basketball
Boxing
Tennis

Simply because they have so many quality players/athletes to choose fr5om, and so much of the world's population takes part in these sports. Does anyone care about curling? Or Gaelic Football? Or afl? Of course not. The talent pool is way too shallow to matter.

Not to single out cycling or anything, but really, everyone I've ever known who is right into it, is a knob. And I imagine I'm not the only person who feels this way.

Any list is pretty flawed anyway unless it defines great properly. I can accept Ali at number 1 if you're talking about the influence he had on sports in general, and what it meant to be a sportsman. But its debatable if he was even better than Foreman (Yes, I know he beat Foreman in their one matchup, but aside from that fight Foreman's record stands up much stronger against the very same opponents Ali lost to).

I think the general consensus is that influence wise you couldn't really go past Pele, Jordan and Ali in any order.

After that you'd want Laver or Federer in there I think, then maybe Bradman but I'd hesitate to put a cricketer into even the top 10, unless they were a freakish all rounder (and none come to mind).
 
I think to be named as one of the greatest sports people of all time; you need to be one of two things:

1. Widely regarded as one of, if not the best ever, in one of the main world-wide sports.
OR
2. Indisputably a dominant best ever at a mid-major international sport.

One of the best ever in world-wide sports:

Athletics:
Usain Bolt
Michael Johnson
Carl Lewis
Hicham El Guerrouj
Haile Gebrselassie

Swimming:
Michael Phelps

Cycling:
Eddy Merckx
Lance Armstrong

Soccer:
Pele
Diego Maradona

Motor Racing:
Michael Schumacher
Valentino Rossi

Tennis:
Roger Federer
Rod Laver
Pete Sampras

Golf:
Tiger Woods
Jack Nicklaus

Basketball:
Michael Jordan

Boxing:
Muhammed Ali
Others?

Indisputably a dominant best ever in mid-major sports:

Cricket:
Don Bradman

Ice Hockey:
Wayne Gretzky

Baseball:
Babe Ruth


If Bolt ever goes up to the 400m, wins Olympic and World Championship Gold in that event and breaks the WR, he is indisputably the greatest sportsman ever in my mind. Sprinting is such a pure event which everyone has access to, and he is the already best ever sprinter by a long way.
 
No one can say Ali was the greatest sportsman of all time.

Ali was the greatest sporting personality, in that he was the king of self promotion and promotion of his sport.

He isnt even considered by most good judges to be in the top 5 of boxers based on career output.

Look at someone like Rocky Marciano, think it was 46 heavyweight fights undefeated, now that's a record.

My no.1 sportsman, and it's a tough one, is Valentino Rossi.

World Champion in 3 classes.
Over 100 GP wins.
When he is finished, will hold just about every record in the motorcycling book.

Ali would be my no 1 personality, but Rossi or Jordan would be my no.1. sportsman for pure ability and career achievement.
 
Motorcycle racing is such a small pol of talent involved though. Only like three or four countries even care about it, and none of those countries consider it a major sport.

Jordan is the most obvious choice because of how he transcended his own sport (like Ali) dominates the individual achievements and stats (like a guy like Rossi does) and because he came up in so many massive moments (like Pele). And he did it in the second most played sport in the world.

He's the triple threat really. There's no substantial weakness in choosing Jordan like there is with other candidates.
 
matty p said:
I think to be named as one of the greatest sports people of all time; you need to be one of two things:

1. Widely regarded as one of, if not the best ever, in one of the main world-wide sports.
OR
2. Indisputably a dominant best ever at a mid-major international sport.

One of the best ever in world-wide sports:

Athletics:
Usain Bolt
Michael Johnson
Carl Lewis
Hicham El Guerrouj
Haile Gebrselassie

Swimming:
Michael Phelps

Cycling:
Eddy Merckx
Lance Armstrong

Soccer:
Pele
Diego Maradona

Motor Racing:
Michael Schumacher
Valentino Rossi

Tennis:
Roger Federer
Rod Laver
Pete Sampras

Golf:
Tiger Woods
Jack Nicklaus

Basketball:
Michael Jordan

Boxing:
Muhammed Ali
Others?

Indisputably a dominant best ever in mid-major sports:

Cricket:
Don Bradman

Ice Hockey:
Wayne Gretzky

Baseball:
Babe Ruth


If Bolt ever goes up to the 400m, wins Olympic and World Championship Gold in that event and breaks the WR, he is indisputably the greatest sportsman ever in my mind. Sprinting is such a pure event which everyone has access to, and he is the already best ever sprinter by a long way.
Click to expand...

Bolt is close to being a great but not yet, although what he has done in Berlin is definitely the greatest 100 meter run ever.
 

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betterthanu said:
Mike Tyson is a better boxer than Ali. Both in their absolute prime, Tyson wins.
Click to expand...

Debatable. I reckon Tyson in his prime might have KO'd Ali if they had one fight, but if they fought two or three times (assuming training programs being identical etc to make up for different eras) Ali would emerge with the better record.
 
Alpha1 said:
Bolt is close to being a great but not yet, although what he has done in Berlin is definitely the greatest 100 meter run ever.
Click to expand...

2008 Beijing Olympics

WR - 100m, 200m 4*100m relay

2009 World Champs Berlin

WR - 100m, 200m

The way he has beaten WR in the biggest events in his sport in the last 2 years has been phenomenal.
 
Karl Pilkington said:
Cycling is a yuppie sport, and one thing history has shown, is that yuppies are basically useless.

In all seriousness, until the working class embraces a sport, you can't honestly include a sportsman from that sport in this discussion. The top 5 should come basically exclusively from:

Soccer
Basketball
Boxing
Tennis

Simply because they have so many quality players/athletes to choose fr5om, and so much of the world's population takes part in these sports. Does anyone care about curling? Or Gaelic Football? Or afl? Of course not. The talent pool is way too shallow to matter.

Not to single out cycling or anything, but really, everyone I've ever known who is right into it, is a knob. And I imagine I'm not the only person who feels this way.

Any list is pretty flawed anyway unless it defines great properly. I can accept Ali at number 1 if you're talking about the influence he had on sports in general, and what it meant to be a sportsman. But its debatable if he was even better than Foreman (Yes, I know he beat Foreman in their one matchup, but aside from that fight Foreman's record stands up much stronger against the very same opponents Ali lost to).

I think the general consensus is that influence wise you couldn't really go past Pele, Jordan and Ali in any order.

After that you'd want Laver or Federer in there I think, then maybe Bradman but I'd hesitate to put a cricketer into even the top 10, unless they were a freakish all rounder (and none come to mind).
Click to expand...

I completely agree (plus athletics), aussie rules and american football should be no where near the list. Even cricket is a bit iffy, only 10 countries play at test level (possibly even 9 coz I think zimbabwe was kicked out of the ICC). Rugby Union would have a good case though.

I'm not sure where to find a list, but did margaret court make it?
 
hirdy_is_champ said:
I completely agree (plus athletics), aussie rules and american football should be no where near the list. Even cricket is a bit iffy, only 10 countries play at test level (possibly even 9 coz I think zimbabwe was kicked out of the ICC). Rugby Union would have a good case though.

I'm not sure where to find a list, but did margaret court make it?
Click to expand...

As I said in a previous post, people considered for this list should either be:

One of the best ever in a world-wide sport:
Athletics
Swimming
Cycling
Soccer
Motor Racing
Tennis
Golf
Basketball
Boxing

OR

Indisputably a dominant best ever in a mid-major sport:
Cricket (Don Bradman)
Ice Hockey (Wayne Gretzky)
Baseball (Babe Ruth)
 
mattys123 said:
No one can say Ali was the greatest sportsman of all time.

Ali was the greatest sporting personality, in that he was the king of self promotion and promotion of his sport.

He isnt even considered by most good judges to be in the top 5 of boxers based on career output.

Look at someone like Rocky Marciano, think it was 46 heavyweight fights undefeated, now that's a record.

My no.1 sportsman, and it's a tough one, is Valentino Rossi.

World Champion in 3 classes.
Over 100 GP wins.
When he is finished, will hold just about every record in the motorcycling book.

Ali would be my no 1 personality, but Rossi or Jordan would be my no.1. sportsman for pure ability and career achievement.
Click to expand...

Ali would be comfortably in the top 5 boxers of all time. He is the only boxer to have beaten three other fighters generally considered to be in the top 10 of his division
[Liston, Frazier and Foreman]. To suggest he is behind Marciano is laughable, because he simply hides behind his zero, his competition was pretty terrible. Ali is comfortably the best heavyweight of all time [ahead of Louis], and given the heavyweight division is the icon of the sport, he certainly has a case. Nonetheless, in my eyes, only Robinson and Armstrong are ahead of Ali, with Willie Pep having a case.

Bananayard said:
lol

Please

Rocky Marciano for one. Far better record than Ali.
Click to expand...

If you're going to comment, make sure you know something about the sport. To say "please" to Sugar Ray Robinson is like saying "please" to Bradman being the best batsman of all time. Robinson was by far the most complete boxer to ever step into the ring, and notched up something a record of 128-1 before he started a gradual decline. He beat the best fighters of his generation in the two deepest divisions of his generation, his accomplishments are only remotely challenged by Henry Armstrong, who was nothing in comparison in terms of talent.

Marciano's record is a myth. Well, the numbers aren't, but it's "greatness' is. Who did he beat? Ezzard Charles, former middleweight who was a great LIGHT-heavyweight. Jersey Joe Walcott, a heavyweight journeyman who was quite skilled, but was extremely inconsistent. Archie Moore? A great light-heavyweight, but nothing amazing at heavyweight. Joe Louis' corpse? That's pretty much it. He retired at the right time, that's all that went in his favour. compared that to Ali, who defeated three top 10 heavyweights a total of 5 times, plus a depth of wins unchallenged by any other heavyweight [Norton, Patterson, Lyle, Quarry, Terrell etc.] Marciano is a top 5-7 heavyweight, yes... but a LONG way behind Robinson and Ali. I would say on a pound-for-pound list he would rank somewhere around 30-40.

betterthanu said:
Mike Tyson is a better boxer than Ali. Both in their absolute prime, Tyson wins.
Click to expand...

Based on what? He was certainly destructive in his prime, but no different to Liston in the 50s-60s and Foreman in the 70s. Tyson never beat a great fighter in his prime. Holmes was 38, Spinks was a light-heavyweight [but still a great victory for Tyson], the rest were merely contenders who didn't offer that much. Head-to-head, Tyson was an animal at his peak, but he struggled when challenged in the ring [Holyfield, Douglas] and never cemented his greatness because he lost when it mattered. Ali proved himself when it mattered both in his prime [where he never lost a fight], and even when he was a shell of himself [after his government induced layoff]. That speaks volumes, Tyson was more like a Roy Jones Jr., who needed his physical assets to succeed... because he was horrible without them, Ali had the physical tools and intangibles second to none.

Karl Pilkington said:
Debatable. I reckon Tyson in his prime might have KO'd Ali if they had one fight, but if they fought two or three times (assuming training programs being identical etc to make up for different eras) Ali would emerge with the better record.
Click to expand...

I for one, cannot see a prime Ali getting knocked out. His recuperative powers were simply too good, his chin was granite and he only got caught when he got careless. Watch Ali vs. Williams or Terrell, that was him at his peak. The Ali for the 70s could certainly be KO'd by Tyson though.
 
Bananayard said:
Bullshit. Ali IMO wasnt even the best boxer of all time.

Bradman is the best ever cricketer by a long, long way.

Eddie Merckx >>>>>>. Lance Armstrong. I wonder how many TDF's Lance would have won if he tried to win other tours like Merckx did.

Also, Maradona > Pele, WTF?
Click to expand...

not much wrong with that.
 
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