One year on Feb 7 - Anybody still think infractions are coming?

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kelvin_sheedy said:
To the people baying for infraction notices and for arguments sake let say they do come, do you want to see the same 12 months ASADA investigation repeated with Melbourne and Gold Coast?
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If they had a club wide doping program like Essendon's, then yes. If not I would hope a full investigation into the claims of Bock and Trengrove are done.
 
This has never happened before under the close scrutiny of the WADA code...
Prepare for the outcome...
 
Laphroaig said:
This, however, is not a valid possibility.

We know from the unambiguous statement of the CEO in Senate Estimates that briefs of evidence and Notices to Show Cause are being written right now.
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There is some way to go from writing a brief to get to recommending infraction notices. Gary Downes still needs to 'decide' to take the case forward - based on the evidence at hand. So again - we won't know if they have sufficient evidence or not.
 

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kelvin_sheedy said:
To the people baying for infraction notices and for arguments sake let say they do come, do you want to see the same 12 months ASADA investigation repeated with Melbourne and Gold Coast?
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No, i'd hope if Essendon get infractions, the other players would save themselves and their clubs the stress and heartache, and plead guilty to get it all over with.
 
ThatsjustDappa said:
Yeah I dunno, to be fair ASADA are bound by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority Act 2006 (now 2013).

I don't know much about unapproved substances but surely there are laws to protect the general public from being administered anything? (I bloody hope so anyway).
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AOD whatever is a food supplement in the US.
Amino Acids are simply protein chains....
The number of people who have had their mini brain explosions in this and numerous other threads because THEY erroneously believe this is about illegal drugs is amazing.
 
Pie eyed said:
AOD whatever is a food supplement in the US.
Amino Acids are simply protein chains....
The number of people who have had their mini brain explosions in this and numerous other threads because THEY erroneously believe this is about illegal drugs is amazing.
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In fairness, it has been the EFC that has been predominantly trying to make the narrative about whether the drugs were illegal or not. The majority on here are aware the actual situation is the drugs being prohibited under the ASADA code.
 
Duckworth said:
There is some way to go from writing a brief to get to recommending infraction notices. Gary Downes still needs to 'decide' to take the case forward - based on the evidence at hand. So again - we won't know if they have sufficient evidence or not.
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A thin difference. I suggest.

But I'll rephrase. They clearly believe they have enough evidence.
 
Pie eyed said:
AOD whatever is a food supplement in the US.
Amino Acids are simply protein chains....
The number of people who have had their mini brain explosions in this and numerous other threads because THEY erroneously believe this is about illegal drugs is amazing.
Click to expand...


And steroids are used for a multitude of medical reasons. Which doesn't make steroid ABUSE by athletes any less dangerous or any less wrong.

What's amazing is that despite the silly little justification lines, folk like you are unable to comprehend that performance enhancing drugs are prohibited in our sport because they are * ing performance enhancing.

It's cheating.
 
mediumsizered said:
Which is why, in his carefully worded statements, Paul Little persists in stating substances administered to EFC players were not illegal. In doing so he appeased the members at the clubs AGM, whilst at the same time not ruling out the players having been administered with substances prohibited by ASADA. Should players receive infractions he will be able to stand by his statement without being accused of lying to the club's members.
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Well if he is claiming that no Essendon player has received any illegal drug or illegal substance, which is the gist of your post,then he is in complete agreement with WADA, ASADA, the ACC, the AFL, the Australian Federal Police, every State and Territory Police force in the country and the facts of the case.

Hard to lampoon him for that.

The same substances, were not specifically banned by ASADA or WADA at the time either and ASADA admitted as much when asked, before the event by several sporting organisations. After the event WADA informed ASADA that technically under the S0 catch all clause any substance on earth not specifically cleared for competition by them was banned...even air, which is yet to be cleared by any government body for human consumption....you sort of get the sweeping stupidity of S0 if you understand how it has been used in this case to save ASADA's arse from total humiliation.
There is still no evidence whatsoever that any of the substances alleged to have been used by Essendon has any performance enhancing properties at all.
I would truly love to see ASADA/WADA try to provide such evidence in a court case.
 
Pie eyed said:
AOD whatever is a food supplement in the US.
Amino Acids are simply protein chains....
The number of people who have had their mini brain explosions in this and numerous other threads because THEY erroneously believe this is about illegal drugs is amazing.
Click to expand...
Take it up with WADA, they are the ones who have clearly stated that AOD-9604 is and always has been banned under the WADA Code. Are you aware of where WADA sit in the pecking chain in terms of their position and what it means to those signed up to the WADA code. I heard somewhere that they are the ones that make and Govern the rules and not the Essendon Football Club.
 
Name the injuries!!
EFC must have had some yeh?!
 
Pie eyed said:
Well if he is claiming that no Essendon player has received any illegal drug or illegal substance, which is the gist of your post,then he is in complete agreement with WADA, ASADA, the ACC, the AFL, the Australian Federal Police, every State and Territory Police force in the country and the facts of the case.

Hard to lampoon him for that.

The same substances, were not specifically banned by ASADA or WADA at the time either and ASADA admitted as much when asked, before the event by several sporting organisations. After the event WADA informed ASADA that technically under the S0 catch all clause any substance on earth not specifically cleared for competition by them was banned...even air, which is yet to be cleared by any government body for human consumption....you sort of get the sweeping stupidity of S0 if you understand how it has been used in this case to save ASADA's arse from total humiliation.
There is still no evidence whatsoever that any of the substances alleged to have been used by Essendon has any performance enhancing properties at all.
I would truly love to see ASADA/WADA try to provide such evidence in a court case.
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So emphatic. SO many errors of fact.

  • Prohibited under S0 is not a technicality.
  • Nor is it a catch all clause
  • Nor does it refer to human consumption
  • Nor does it refer to air or "any substance on earth."
  • Nor is it an after the event change
  • ASADA does not have to prove substances are performance enhancing, they have to prove they are prohibited. On that there is no doubt, despite the best efforts of the Essendon spin doctors and the gullible who swallow their cynical trash.
Apart for all those * ups, you did ok.
 
Laphroaig said:
And steroids are used for a multitude of medical reasons. Which doesn't make steroid ABUSE by athletes any less dangerous or any less wrong.

What's amazing is that despite the silly little justification lines, folk like you are unable to comprehend that performance enhancing drugs are prohibited in our sport because they are **** ing performance enhancing.

It's cheating.
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If they have no performance enhancing properties...?
Then what?

You see the problem ASADA have?
You also have a trouble with the the concept of "illegal", against the Law and "banned", by opinion.

I don't really give a seconds thought to the misguided over-reactions of people who fail to even comprehend the facts of the case. Your head popping has absolutely no relevance in the eyes of the law.

Nothing illegal has even been alleged to have been used let alone used.

You want to express your moral outrage feel free.
 

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Pie eyed said:
Well if he is claiming that no Essendon player has received any illegal drug or illegal substance, which is the gist of your post,then he is in complete agreement with WADA, ASADA, the ACC, the AFL, the Australian Federal Police, every State and Territory Police force in the country and the facts of the case.

Hard to lampoon him for that.

The same substances, were not specifically banned by ASADA or WADA at the time either and ASADA admitted as much when asked, before the event by several sporting organisations. After the event WADA informed ASADA that technically under the S0 catch all clause any substance on earth not specifically cleared for competition by them was banned...even air, which is yet to be cleared by any government body for human consumption....you sort of get the sweeping stupidity of S0 if you understand how it has been used in this case to save ASADA's arse from total humiliation.
There is still no evidence whatsoever that any of the substances alleged to have been used by Essendon has any performance enhancing properties at all.
I would truly love to see ASADA/WADA try to provide such evidence in a court case.
Click to expand...

What are you on about? Little is being lampooned (by some) because it can easily be (mis)construed that if they took nothing "illegal" then their supporters should feel relieved that their club is therefore in the clear. As you point out yourself, illegal and banned are not the same thing.
As for your sook about S0, you and I both know that is there to stop cheats being ahead of the list of banned substances by finding something that may be performance enhancing but not yet banned explicitly.
Really, we had this discussion months ago.
 
chelseacarlton said:
Players named in drug shame?
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I'm sorry, I don't get where you're coming from? The players were named from the interim report - which at that stage ASADA did not have evidence to proceed with show cause or recommend infraction notices. They may be issued down the track, but a retrospective naming of the players is hardly justified
 
Pie eyed said:
If they have no performance enhancing properties...?
Then what?

You see the problem ASADA have?
You also have a trouble with the the concept of "illegal", against the Law and "banned", by opinion.

I don't really give a seconds thought to the misguided over-reactions of people who fail to even comprehend the facts of the case. Your head popping has absolutely no relevance in the eyes of the law.

Nothing illegal has even been alleged to have been used let alone used.

You want to express your moral outrage feel free.
Click to expand...


Now you're being obtuse. Is it deliberate, or just a natural talent?

Proving performance enhancing properties is impossible in many cases. Which is why the standard is whether it's prohibited.

Keeping track of new drugs and supplements is impossible. So S0 exists. If it's not tested, don't use it.

And. Regardless of these simple considerations. If the s**t is not performance enhancing why was it used, at great expense, in a HIGH PERFORMANCE PROGRAM?
 
Laphroaig said:
So emphatic. SO many errors of fact.

  • Prohibited under S0 is not a technicality.
  • Nor is it a catch all clause
  • Nor does it refer to human consumption
  • Nor does it refer to air or "any substance on earth."
  • Nor is it an after the event change
  • ASADA does not have to prove substances are performance enhancing, they have to prove they are prohibited. On that there is no doubt, despite the best efforts of the Essendon spin doctors and the gullible who swallow their cynical trash.
Apart for all those **** ups, you did ok.
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Yeah yeah...Have a sook.
Totally accurate summation. ASADA have no power not ceded them by idiots and sheep.
 
Laphroaig said:
Now you're being obtuse. Is it deliberate, or just a natural talent?

Proving performance enhancing properties is impossible in many cases. Which is why the standard is whether it's prohibited.

Keeping track of new drugs and supplements is impossible. So S0 exists. If it's not tested, don't use it.

And. Regardless of these simple considerations. If the s**t is not performance enhancing why was it used, at great expense, in a HIGH PERFORMANCE PROGRAM?
Click to expand...
I don't care how obtuse you think reality is.
That is your problem.

I don't care how hard ASADA's job is.
I think they have no place in the scheme of things. I think they are irrelevant and simply exist for purely political reasons.
 
Pie eyed said:
I don't care how obtuse you think reality is.
That is your problem.

I don't care how hard ASADA's job is.
I think they have no place in the scheme of things. I think they are irrelevant and simply exist for purely political reasons.
Click to expand...

Lets be clear on one thing. It's not reality that I think is obtuse.

It's an angry little chap making multiple major errors of fact, demonstrating a stunning ignorance of the subject at hand, while contemptuously ranting about how wrong others are..
 
Pie eyed said:
I don't care how obtuse you think reality is.
That is your problem.

I don't care how hard ASADA's job is.
I think they have no place in the scheme of things. I think they are irrelevant and simply exist for purely political reasons.
Click to expand...

So do you think that the players should all be able to be injected with whatever substance, performance enhancing or not, without knowing anything about that substance by their club?
 
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