DaSawx
Brownlow Medallist
Interesting one
Delisted #21: Courtney Johns
- Thread starter DaSawx
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Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Not to me anymore.
There are many excuses for why he hasn't produced yet and whilst they are valid i still believe he lacks a few key things to convince me he will make the grade.
Awareness - he has virtually none
Mobility - As above
Footy Smarts - as above
Versatility - as above
He is a one trick pony that has promised plenty and delivered little.
He struggles at VFL level and the sooner we get rid of him the better off we will be
Not to me anymore.
There are many excuses for why he hasn't produced yet and whilst they are valid i still believe he lacks a few key things to convince me he will make the grade.
Awareness - he has virtually none
Mobility - As above
Footy Smarts - as above
Versatility - as above
He is a one trick pony that has promised plenty and delivered little.
He struggles at VFL level and the sooner we get rid of him the better off we will be
ant555
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Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Im going to have an indepth go here. Ok first things first . He suffers from the extreme hype that he managed to get on him early. One good half of footy for Bendigo (where the number of marks he was supposed to have taken grows every year) combined with some good early under 18's reviews have seen him to be thought of as the new Coleman/Lloyd/Locket rolled into one before he played a game. Now becasue he isnt that the fall out has been huge.
Down to the facts about him.
He has been around for a while but has really only been able to train at full speed for jut under two years and has only ever had one decent pre season. This has resulted in his base fitness being very ordinary.
Currently he has really only got one trick and that is to lead straight up the ground and take a mark. He doesnt read the play all that well ( and im not really surprised as he missed a lot of his development years with injury) and his second efforts are poor at best.
He has struggled to really stamp himself at senior level. He has had a few handy games but nothing outstanding. In saying this i have really questioned how we have used him at times. When Lloyd has been in the side i really wondered why we where playing him as he is not good playing on the flanks as he has to lead to nothing positions and keep out of Lloyd and Lucas's way.
When Lloyd has been out we still dont use him that well. The guys knows only one thing up forward , why the hell do we try a get him to play roles he cant do.
Anyway back to the player himself. The one thing that may save him is he has shown some sort of promise as a backman in the VFL. Despite having the top speed of a WW2 tank and a truning circle to match a truck he does have very good speed of the mark. When he has been playing in defence he has shown if he concentrates on his man he can get to a marking contest and spoil very well. With his size he is pretty good body on body. Also in defence he seems to get a better read on the play as he see's the ball coming in but doesnt have to decide where or when it is best to lead. He simply covers his man and his closing speed over a short distance gets him to the contest.Wether any of the above mentioned defence work will stand up at senior level who knows but at least he is learning something new.
Im going to have an indepth go here. Ok first things first . He suffers from the extreme hype that he managed to get on him early. One good half of footy for Bendigo (where the number of marks he was supposed to have taken grows every year) combined with some good early under 18's reviews have seen him to be thought of as the new Coleman/Lloyd/Locket rolled into one before he played a game. Now becasue he isnt that the fall out has been huge.
Down to the facts about him.
He has been around for a while but has really only been able to train at full speed for jut under two years and has only ever had one decent pre season. This has resulted in his base fitness being very ordinary.
Currently he has really only got one trick and that is to lead straight up the ground and take a mark. He doesnt read the play all that well ( and im not really surprised as he missed a lot of his development years with injury) and his second efforts are poor at best.
He has struggled to really stamp himself at senior level. He has had a few handy games but nothing outstanding. In saying this i have really questioned how we have used him at times. When Lloyd has been in the side i really wondered why we where playing him as he is not good playing on the flanks as he has to lead to nothing positions and keep out of Lloyd and Lucas's way.
When Lloyd has been out we still dont use him that well. The guys knows only one thing up forward , why the hell do we try a get him to play roles he cant do.
Anyway back to the player himself. The one thing that may save him is he has shown some sort of promise as a backman in the VFL. Despite having the top speed of a WW2 tank and a truning circle to match a truck he does have very good speed of the mark. When he has been playing in defence he has shown if he concentrates on his man he can get to a marking contest and spoil very well. With his size he is pretty good body on body. Also in defence he seems to get a better read on the play as he see's the ball coming in but doesnt have to decide where or when it is best to lead. He simply covers his man and his closing speed over a short distance gets him to the contest.Wether any of the above mentioned defence work will stand up at senior level who knows but at least he is learning something new.
ant555
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Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Fair go Merv he has been as good if not better than a lot of our players at VFL level. Yes he has had a few ordinary ones but to say he struggles as a whole is wrong.
Fair go Merv he has been as good if not better than a lot of our players at VFL level. Yes he has had a few ordinary ones but to say he struggles as a whole is wrong.
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
LOL, here we go again ant, seems we always come back to discussing CJ.
To say that he has been as good if not better than a lot of our current VFL players is not a large recommendation as a lot of our VFL players are either out of form and most are unlikely to make it AFL level.
You see a lot more of the players than i do at training and in games so i can only go on what i have seen and that has been reported.
When i say he struggles at VFL level, whilst sometimes true, ie on Saturday, i mean more that if he was a good chance at making it at AFL level he should be consistantly kicking 4+ goals with the occasional bag.
I also understand that he has played in defense a bit this year, something i called for a year ago as i could see the writing on the wall back then.
I doubt he will make a backman either but i am convinced that he won't make a forward.
I would love to be proved wrong and make an apology post, but i doubt it will happen.
Trade him now while he still has some value.
LOL, here we go again ant, seems we always come back to discussing CJ.
To say that he has been as good if not better than a lot of our current VFL players is not a large recommendation as a lot of our VFL players are either out of form and most are unlikely to make it AFL level.
You see a lot more of the players than i do at training and in games so i can only go on what i have seen and that has been reported.
When i say he struggles at VFL level, whilst sometimes true, ie on Saturday, i mean more that if he was a good chance at making it at AFL level he should be consistantly kicking 4+ goals with the occasional bag.
I also understand that he has played in defense a bit this year, something i called for a year ago as i could see the writing on the wall back then.
I doubt he will make a backman either but i am convinced that he won't make a forward.
I would love to be proved wrong and make an apology post, but i doubt it will happen.
Trade him now while he still has some value.
ant555
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Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Well i dont disagee with a lot you have said about him. I have pretty much mentioned a few negatives that you have pointed out. I was just pointing out that he hasnt struggled in all his VFL games. He has infact played 5 or so very good ones.
As far as kicking a bag as a forward and dominating in the VFL well he did. Early in the year in the last Bendigo practice game and then first two Bendigo games he kicked 4.3 , 3.5 and then 7.0 and did dominate the forward line for that period. He then played in the seniors for 4 weeks and did nothing. When he was dropped back to Bendigo he was sent to play in defence and had played limited time up forward until saturday where he was very ordinary.
I am not sold on him yet either infact if i was betting on him to make it i wouldnt even put your money on him
I just feel he cops a lot simply becasue the fact that he was hyped up way too much early and people have expected him to be something sensational right out of the blocks.
Well i dont disagee with a lot you have said about him. I have pretty much mentioned a few negatives that you have pointed out. I was just pointing out that he hasnt struggled in all his VFL games. He has infact played 5 or so very good ones.
As far as kicking a bag as a forward and dominating in the VFL well he did. Early in the year in the last Bendigo practice game and then first two Bendigo games he kicked 4.3 , 3.5 and then 7.0 and did dominate the forward line for that period. He then played in the seniors for 4 weeks and did nothing. When he was dropped back to Bendigo he was sent to play in defence and had played limited time up forward until saturday where he was very ordinary.
I am not sold on him yet either infact if i was betting on him to make it i wouldnt even put your money on him
I just feel he cops a lot simply becasue the fact that he was hyped up way too much early and people have expected him to be something sensational right out of the blocks.
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
All Australian
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
I see him as a development player that will remain on the list for at least another 2 years. If Bolton get's to stay on the list for as long as he has, then i think Johns should have that opportunity. Sheedy has put a lot into Johns so i don't think he'd want him to goto waste. He just needs time and if Essendon have patience (which i think they will) he will come good and Essendon will be rewarded with a great player. If he was played as a #1 forward with another pre-season behind him next season (hypothetically), i think he would show all alot more of what he is capaple of.
I see him as a development player that will remain on the list for at least another 2 years. If Bolton get's to stay on the list for as long as he has, then i think Johns should have that opportunity. Sheedy has put a lot into Johns so i don't think he'd want him to goto waste. He just needs time and if Essendon have patience (which i think they will) he will come good and Essendon will be rewarded with a great player. If he was played as a #1 forward with another pre-season behind him next season (hypothetically), i think he would show all alot more of what he is capaple of.
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
I totally agree and he had waaaay too much expected of him waaaay too early because of it.
You can blame Sheeds for that as he hyped more than anyone
and NOOO you can't use my money...
Well i dont disagee with a lot you have said about him. I have pretty much mentioned a few negatives that you have pointed out. I was just pointing out that he hasnt struggled in all his VFL games. He has infact played 5 or so very good ones.
As far as kicking a bag as a forward and dominating in the VFL well he did. Early in the year in the last Bendigo practice game and then first two Bendigo games he kicked 4.3 , 3.5 and then 7.0 and did dominate the forward line for that period. He then played in the seniors for 4 weeks and did nothing. When he was dropped back to Bendigo he was sent to play in defence and had played limited time up forward until saturday where he was very ordinary.
I am not sold on him yet either infact if i was betting on him to make it i wouldnt even put your money on him
I just feel he cops a lot simply becasue the fact that he was hyped up way too much early and people have expected him to be something sensational right out of the blocks.
I totally agree and he had waaaay too much expected of him waaaay too early because of it.
You can blame Sheeds for that as he hyped more than anyone
and NOOO you can't use my money...
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
My thoughts exactly, but with Neagle, Gumby and Bradley do you realistically think we will let him develop.
The best thing is that whilst we were blowing up his tyres others got to get through under the radar without all the media scrutiny (Stanton, watson, Nash. Slattery)
My thoughts exactly, but with Neagle, Gumby and Bradley do you realistically think we will let him develop.
The best thing is that whilst we were blowing up his tyres others got to get through under the radar without all the media scrutiny (Stanton, watson, Nash. Slattery)
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
All Australian
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
-Neagle as a Half Forward like O'Keefe
-Gumby as our CHF
-Bradley, a 2nd CHF to Gumby, so if Gumby is playing then just let him play HFF or maybe we could have 2 CHF's (not sure it that would work).
Leaving Johns with FF. So yes, do think we will let him develop as they have put so much into him and wouldn't want to see it goto waste as i said earlier.
This is how i would like to see them develop at Bendigo:
-Neagle as a Half Forward like O'Keefe
-Gumby as our CHF
-Bradley, a 2nd CHF to Gumby, so if Gumby is playing then just let him play HFF or maybe we could have 2 CHF's (not sure it that would work).
Leaving Johns with FF. So yes, do think we will let him develop as they have put so much into him and wouldn't want to see it goto waste as i said earlier.
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Interesting theory and one worth trying at BB level, might be sometihing they can take to next level (seniors) if works, would like to see Heffernan in the middle feeding and teaching them.
Interesting theory and one worth trying at BB level, might be sometihing they can take to next level (seniors) if works, would like to see Heffernan in the middle feeding and teaching them.
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
I'm really confident he will become a good player for the EFC. More experience and a better fitness base, with the physical tools he has, will make him a force to be reckoned with in coming years, imo
I'm really confident he will become a good player for the EFC. More experience and a better fitness base, with the physical tools he has, will make him a force to be reckoned with in coming years, imo
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Courtney Johns is a battler. He really needs to tune up is fitness if he wants to become a regular senior player
Courtney Johns is a battler. He really needs to tune up is fitness if he wants to become a regular senior player
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Should be on a program next year to trim right down and get mobility and improve engine.
Needs to lose a bit of muscle mass.
I think he can make it at AFL level but needs a lot of work.
Should be on a program next year to trim right down and get mobility and improve engine.
Needs to lose a bit of muscle mass.
I think he can make it at AFL level but needs a lot of work.
monty1104
Premium Platinum
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
I reckon he would be a good player if we have a midfield that is able to constantly feed him the ball on leads. Lloyd and Lucas arent really strong leading forwards. They are more workhorse type players where if on lead doesnt work, they will double back and go again. Johns is the opposite. He makes one lead and if it isnt honoured then he's spent. But when he gets on the lead it is usually goodenough to atleast shake his defender. The problem is that the spots he leads to sometimes arent the best spots and require a very good kick to hit him on the run. Once he learns this I think he can be very good.
And in all honesty, he wont get axed for 2 reasons:
1) He is our next best FF behind Lloyd. All our other forwards are more CHF type players
2)While Sheeds is there, Johns wont go anywhere. They have put too much time and effort into getting him good to go again just to chuck him out after one poor season.
I reckon he would be a good player if we have a midfield that is able to constantly feed him the ball on leads. Lloyd and Lucas arent really strong leading forwards. They are more workhorse type players where if on lead doesnt work, they will double back and go again. Johns is the opposite. He makes one lead and if it isnt honoured then he's spent. But when he gets on the lead it is usually goodenough to atleast shake his defender. The problem is that the spots he leads to sometimes arent the best spots and require a very good kick to hit him on the run. Once he learns this I think he can be very good.
And in all honesty, he wont get axed for 2 reasons:
1) He is our next best FF behind Lloyd. All our other forwards are more CHF type players
2)While Sheeds is there, Johns wont go anywhere. They have put too much time and effort into getting him good to go again just to chuck him out after one poor season.
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
All Australian
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Would a bit of Yoga or something like that help his mobility?
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Yoga... Karma Sutra... whatever it takes
I reckon he should not touch the footy for 3 months and just do aerobic long distance running, swimming or cycling.
Yoga... Karma Sutra... whatever it takes
I reckon he should not touch the footy for 3 months and just do aerobic long distance running, swimming or cycling.
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
He gets plenty of practice in the horizontal gymnastics.
Yoga... Karma Sutra... whatever it takes
I reckon he should not touch the footy for 3 months and just do aerobic long distance running, swimming or cycling.
He gets plenty of practice in the horizontal gymnastics.
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
His mobility yesterday was non existent.
He was turning slower than the Queen Mary.
Looks to big and bulky for CHB. Can only play FB as the AFL CHF's will run him into the ground.
His mobility yesterday was non existent.
He was turning slower than the Queen Mary.
Looks to big and bulky for CHB. Can only play FB as the AFL CHF's will run him into the ground.
RED AND BLACK SOLDIER
All Australian
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Agreed, looked magnificent yesterday. If Fletch is out next week aswell i'd like to see Johns come in and see how he goes in defence at AFL level.
ant555
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Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Thought he was really good on saturday. As Kelvin said he isnt mobile enough to be considered to play on most CHF but i think he can make a decent FB.
He does need to concentrate a bit harder as a few times he was caught out not watching his man and in that split second they got away.
It will be interesting to see his pre season ths year. Last year they increased his work load but it was still a modified program he was on aimed at a steady build up. I suspect it is pretty much time to really turn the screws and pump an ever bigger pre season into him. He has to drop a couple kg of muscle and increase his cardio work.
Thought he was really good on saturday. As Kelvin said he isnt mobile enough to be considered to play on most CHF but i think he can make a decent FB.
He does need to concentrate a bit harder as a few times he was caught out not watching his man and in that split second they got away.
It will be interesting to see his pre season ths year. Last year they increased his work load but it was still a modified program he was on aimed at a steady build up. I suspect it is pretty much time to really turn the screws and pump an ever bigger pre season into him. He has to drop a couple kg of muscle and increase his cardio work.
Re: 21. Courtney Johns
Courtney barely uses his aerobic system, his game as a CHF/FF or CHB/FB is almost completely reliant on his anaerobic system. As such, there's no real point in him taking a massive focus on aerobic training.
What Courtney has to improve his anaerobic endurance. I'd have him doing lots of shuttle runs so that he can work on repeat efforts which is the area of fitness that's letting him down at the moment. Aerobic training wouldn't help him at all with that and is mainly just for guys who play in the midfield/ruck.
Yoga... Karma Sutra... whatever it takes
I reckon he should not touch the footy for 3 months and just do aerobic long distance running, swimming or cycling.
Courtney barely uses his aerobic system, his game as a CHF/FF or CHB/FB is almost completely reliant on his anaerobic system. As such, there's no real point in him taking a massive focus on aerobic training.
What Courtney has to improve his anaerobic endurance. I'd have him doing lots of shuttle runs so that he can work on repeat efforts which is the area of fitness that's letting him down at the moment. Aerobic training wouldn't help him at all with that and is mainly just for guys who play in the midfield/ruck.
BigBoPBope
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courtney johns
Is Essendon going to delist Johns at the end of the year? Or will he get 1 more year to prove himself? What do you think the new coach will do with him?
Is Essendon going to delist Johns at the end of the year? Or will he get 1 more year to prove himself? What do you think the new coach will do with him?
