Analysis Ross Lyon

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would
sproketman said:
It's a waste of a season to play such an old and experienced team and not win the premiership.
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well we can try win it and luck/injury does play a part. afl lists are small and we have had some good results with recent drafting. but we are not favourites but we are maximising what we have. enjoy the ride and trying is not a waste
 
sproketman said:
It's a waste of a season to play such an old and experienced team and not win the premiership.
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And yet, even if we do everything right between now and the Grand Final - if we make it - we still may not win the premiership. I think winning a flag is 80-85% hard work and 15% luck. A bounce of the ball, an injury or injuries at the wrong time, a bad call - any and all of these can derail a season on the Big Day, and has. What is obviously proven is that Ross Lyon has the coaching nous to cover the 80-85%. That's all we can really hope for, to be honest.
 
riteo said:
At least we're not North. As old as Sydney, Hawthorn and us and Scott has them firmly entrenched in mediocrity this year after going full Schwabolly in the offseason.
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It's not panic stations, but tek87's argument is that the talent base of the team hasn't improved since 2013. I agree with him, but that doesn't make it a blameless situation. For Ross, 2014 was a lost opportunity to do something different, and if we don't take home a flag in 2015 the same applies. He is pushing the same risk averse model - based around defence first, effort and experience - that he fine tuned at St Kilda, and it is increasingly apparent that it can only take him so far.
 

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tek87 said:
would


well we can try win it and luck/injury does play a part. afl lists are small and we have had some good results with recent drafting. but we are not favourites but we are maximising what we have. enjoy the ride and trying is not a waste
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Had Ross given debutants more games in 2014 and finished 8th instead of 4th at the end of home and away, what would have been lost for that season, and what might have been gained for this one?
 
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sproketman said:
It's not panic stations, but tek87's argument is that the talent base of the team hasn't improved since 2013. I agree with him, but that doesn't make it a blameless situation. For Ross, 2014 was a lost opportunity to do something different, and if we don't take home a flag in 2015 the same applies. He is pushing the same risk averse model - based around defence first, effort and experience - that he fine tuned at St Kilda, and it is increasingly apparent that it can only take him so far.
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I agree with all of that, just wanted to pot Norf. In light of Hawthorn's fearful scoring power, the "score 1 goal more, concede 1 less" benchmark was in hindsight far too conservative. What was a bit scary was how similar today was, in the first half at least, to his first derby in 2012 where we just couldn't score at all.
 
The issue with that argument is that we were contending for the flag, and we had the runs on the board to finish top 4. Had we not scraped into the 4, we would have backed ourselves to try to win from outside the 8. The difficulty with being a side in contention is that it makes it extremely difficult to blood the youth. And which of our young people would we have played last year consistently?
 
Grape Bear said:
And yet, even if we do everything right between now and the Grand Final - if we make it - we still may not win the premiership. I think winning a flag is 80-85% hard work and 15% luck. A bounce of the ball, an injury or injuries at the wrong time, a bad call - any and all of these can derail a season on the Big Day, and has. What is obviously proven is that Ross Lyon has the coaching nous to cover the 80-85%. That's all we can really hope for, to be honest.
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Yes, he is a good coach in the true sense of the word. But lacking on game day when needing to make a tactical call.
 
Its funny, if the people had their way and we started playing the likes of Weller, Blakely, Langdon, Grey etc. all at once without giving them a proper hazing and conditioning process and we slid outside the 8, the same people would be baying for blood. Ross gave the likes of Sheridan and Neale a proper development period and they are blossoming. Next year he will undoubtedly give the likes of Weller, Blakely, Langdon a half dozen games or so and by 2017 one or two of them will be playing full time.

Lets not forget the problems we've had grabbing a KPF in the trade and FA period either. If we get a big fish to replace Pav, I honestly can't see any major holes in our list in the medium term if Alex Pearce grows into a decent KPD. We're not going to bottom out anytime soon.
 
Silent Alarm said:
The appointment of Ross Lyon was when this footy club got serious. It was a bizarre day in footy but a momentous one – Freo was finally bold, cut-throat, and full of intent. It showed that the administration had some balls and nous. It was cunning. Ross Lyon is no doubt Freo's best ever coach, he was an absolute coup, and you couldn't even imagine who would've been next in line if Schwabby and co. were still in charge.

However, people are rightfully starting to get confused and angry over Ross Lyon.

Most of this lays in his selection policy, which is essentially picking the same 25 core players on rotation, persevering with them, and constantly showing (blind) faith in guys like Matt DeBoer (who should be good for six or seven games a season as depth, but not a walk up in the 22).

This isn't reactionary to the Eagles loss. Whatever. They're a bunch of pretenders. But the discontent is becoming pretty noticeable. As it bloody well should be, too.

So – what is the assessment of Ross Lyon? Was he the best Fremantle could've gotten? Is he the best for Fremantle? Will he forever be the bridesmaid?
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not being funny but can you name me a player from outside the 22 and available who is currently better than de beor?
 
Lord Laud said:
Yes, he is a good coach in the true sense of the word. But lacking on game day when needing to make a tactical call.
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He is a bit too slow to change things up when we are losing, but it's not always clear if he does that deliberately to see how the players hold up under pressure (if we are ahead and the defense comes under siege). The choice of sub and who to sub off is also sometimes mind-boggling, but hindsight is always 20/20 and we usually have the benefit of looking at how the sub affects the run of play.

I think that the anxiety that has come into our play may be related to the play-on philosophy to encourage quick ball movement... Which is fine, when it comes off, but not when we haven't really managed to set it up. The players just aren't finding the balance between moving the play quickly vs. taking the time to lower the eyes and find a target that isn't under pressure.
 

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Grape Bear said:
Decision-making and Skills wise? Blakely and Weller, to start. His edge is fitness and experience, though.
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But my question is not one of the future but one of the now. Can you honestly say that of right now Blakely and Weller are better than Deboer at AFL level?
 
gungho said:
But my question is not one of the future but one of the now. Can you honestly say that of right now Blakely and Weller are better than Deboer at AFL level?
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Hard to say as both haven't had an extended game, but if we can carry deBoer for most of the year, I suppose the point is we can't get any worse output from either to find out if they are up to scratch.
 
Lach72 said:
Clancee Pearce, Blakely, Weller, Langdon.
And Brady Grey due flexibility: can play back pocket too
Duffield with the ball in hand.
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Only one of all those that could replace Deboer is Clancee. (And he might next week) Blakely, Weller and Langdon might be the best recruits to have ever landed at Freo, but as of right now, they have not proven themselves to be better than Deboer. Duff plays in a completely different position so is probably not going to come in for him.
 
gungho said:
Only one of all those that could replace Deboer is Clancee. (And he might next week) Blakely, Weller and Langdon might be the best recruits to have ever landed at Freo, but as of right now, they have not proven themselves to be better than Deboer. Duff plays in a completely different position so is probably not going to come in for him.
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My used sock is better than De Boer. All of the above are an improvement
 
Grape Bear said:
Hard to say as both haven't had an extended game, but if we can carry deBoer for most of the year, I suppose the point is we can't get any worse output from either to find out if they are up to scratch.
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Look, I'm not adverse to risk, but new blood normally comes in somewhere at the start of a season because it is a bloody big gamble bringing in kids who have played limited game time for the finals.
 
gungho said:
Look, I'm not adverse to risk, but new blood normally comes in somewhere at the start of a season because it is a bloody big gamble bringing in kids who have played limited game time for the finals.
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Don't care. De Boer is not good enough for a premiership team. Mzungu, Danyle Pearce very marginal
 
gungho said:
Look, I'm not adverse to risk, but new blood normally comes in somewhere at the start of a season because it is a bloody big gamble bringing in kids who have played limited game time for the finals.
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Again, that supports the argument that we should have brought these kids in early on - maybe in the Brisbane or Carlton games, for starters - to see if they would be an upgrade to the incumbents. It's probably too late now, and so it's an opportunity missed.
 
Grape Bear said:
He is a bit too slow to change things up when we are losing, but it's not always clear if he does that deliberately to see how the players hold up under pressure (if we are ahead and the defense comes under siege). The choice of sub and who to sub off is also sometimes mind-boggling, but hindsight is always 20/20 and we usually have the benefit of looking at how the sub affects the run of play.

I think that the anxiety that has come into our play may be related to the play-on philosophy to encourage quick ball movement... Which is fine, when it comes off, but not when we haven't really managed to set it up. The players just aren't finding the balance between moving the play quickly vs. taking the time to lower the eyes and find a target that isn't under pressure.
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Eyes are too low already. Handballing to contests, kicking short to defensive positions. There were leads galore today that were ignored. Players seem confused to me.
 
Lord Laud said:
Eyes are too low already. Handballing to contests, kicking short to defensive positions. There were leads galore today that were ignored. Players seem confused to me.
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This baffles me as well, this hot potato handball to someone under pressure. Such a massive difference from the way we played even just last week. No composure.
 
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