Autopsy Round 5, 2024 - Suns destroy hopeless Hawks

[Arkadia]

The great John Kennedy was also a Collingwood man who came in and transformed this magnificent club of ours into the most successful modern club in the AFL….??????? That's news to me. And to John, I suspect.

Mad Collingwood supporter , however he saw the light and came over to the good side

 

[Stratton_Gun]

Ive never been one to really judge coaches as it's hard to determine tactics etc etc but from what I'm looking at its not looking good for Mitch

See my review for players

Meek: Actually been impressed the last couple of weeks. Didn't have much hope for him.
Worpel: Always thereabouts but gets caught way to often. Good tryer but has a lot of limitations
Chol: Hope we kept a receipt. Putrid
Ginnivan: Probably realising its a lot harder to crumb in an average team. Has been ok but that's about it
Butler and Hustwaite: Keep getting told they are tearing it up at BHH but I'm not seeing anything special at AFL level.
Ramsden: Looks promising but very raw
Frost: Actually been ok this year tbh but similar to Worpel is very limited
Hardwick/Impey: Good average players who im happy to stick around
Ward/Mackenzie: along with DGB and indictment on our drafting and or development. Would not think they are all Top 10 picks in the slightest.
Newcombe: Good player but won't get much better than what he is now. Already but bodied
D'Ambrosio: Like him as a role player. Great kick
CMac: liked him the last couple of years but has gone backwards this year

Sure I'm missing a couple.

Yes he have injuries but Will Day isn't prime Judd and Lewis isn't Buddy.

At most they may have added a few goals and we still lose by 40 odd against a mid table team at best

I'd love to know when as part of this rebuild we are meant to start winning games.

 

[hk89]

A lot of unneeded panic in here IMO.

Yes, GC fielded a team which was only slightly more experienced, and very slightly older than ours. However they had an almost full list to choose from. Only 4 players on their injury list, and 2 of those had played 0 and 2 games. Compare that to ours, with 9 players on the injury list and arguably only one of them (McCabe) not best 22. We are also a very young list overall, so don't have a lot of experience sitting at Box Hill to come in, and are therefore playing a LOT of players who are not ready to step up yet, and it showed bigtime tonight. DGB is the only other player in the injury list other than McCabe who wouldn't normally walk straight into the side, and with Blanck out, I'd say he will probably come in when his rehab is complete. Missing 8 of your best 22 when you're already young, inexperienced, and languishing in the bottom 4 is always going to make you look like a rabble. The lack of leadership and experience that creates is also a problem, and the team will be lacking in confidence now too. Basically a perfect storm for the rubbish performance we saw tonight. The less experienced kids will look better when they are playing in a team that includes more of those 8 injured best 22 players, and the others that are not ready can go back and work on their game at box hill instead of filling holes in the senior side.

We've got talent on the list, but they are not top 3 picks who often tend to be so good they can play at a high level very early and don't need the development time as much as the players going later in the first round. Players like Rowell and Anderson who went #1 and #2, certainly showed more early than some of our first rounders, but that doesn't mean ours are rubbish, and will not develop into excellent players in time. Right now they don't have the games in them to perform at a consistently high level, but comparing them to the freaks that go #1 and #2 in each draft isn't a fair comparison.

The biggest concern for mine is the midfield. Having Day and Wingard to rotate through will improve it, but Worpel is actually playing well, and we are still mostly atrocious. If Jai has a bad game - and he's probably only had one decent one - we are worse than terrible, and we've lost too many out of the forward and back halves to carry a poorly functioning midfield.

Hopefully the board is less short sighted than the fans. I'm still confident Mitchell is the right person for the job, just hard to handle the injury list right now with such a young and experienced set of cattle to draw on.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I still haven’t seen the game, but I hope everyone’s had a chance to listen to the full press conference after the game.

Especially those who are saying that we played like the coach wanted us to. He seems genuinely frustrated at the lack of strength in the contest and the refusal to play to the conditions.

 

[SSSSSS]

I still haven’t seen the game, but I hope everyone’s had a chance to listen to the full press conference after the game.

Especially those who are saying that we played like the coach wanted us to. He seems genuinely frustrated at the lack of strength in the contest and the refusal to play to the conditions.

That's twice this season that our players have failed to play to instructions according to Sam.

Against the Dees and now the Suns.

 

[mustang]

How do you move on??
This List lacks AGrade talent. Who do we consider trading to get at least three first rounders.Recent drafts have masked where we are at.
With TAS coming in, we are going to be down a long, long time.
You can forget about Roughy’s role. FA and out of contract players and their managers want success.

The player on our list who would be worth something would be Sicily as someone posted on here also.

I’d be letting Nash go also if he can net us a second round.

 

[bigmaxi]

The free kicks against Scrimmers were absolute rubbish. The umpire may as well have grabbed the ball lined up and put it through himself.

Deplorable display of umpiring.

Didn't watch the game last night, probably a blessing, but i watched the Dogs/scum game and turned it off after a quarter, the umpiring was appalling. So it is AFL all over, they have made it unwatchable for mine. Needs to be addressed ASAP.

 

[fairdinks]

Id be throwing Butler in the midfield for Box Hill for an extended experience and see how that looks. He has some pace and burst, but not sure on his game sense. Looks so far out of his depth at moment.

Agree. Or perhaps in the backline. We need to find out if he can play at the level before end of year. What is his contract status? At present, its doubtful he would be renewed if OOC at year end.

He and Connor Mac don't look to have put on much strength since last year. They need to be stronger at the contest as a 3rd year player. No point having great endurance if you cant get the ball.

 

[mustang]

I actually think Frenchy and Ward will end up being very very good players for the club and don’t like impatience some people have. They both need games and experience and that’s what will pay dividends in the years ahead.

However Anderson was averaging 26+ touches a game at the point Ward was and Rowell was leading the Brownlow in his first season before a bad injury, I think they are unfair comparisons with our lot. They will be generational players.

The challenge I see at the moment is how we bring in that level for us. I’m not sure Ward and Mackenzie are that but it’s an unfair expectation for them to be.

We don’t have generational players coming through that’s the problem.

The late wins in each season has really hurts us long terms with getting these elite kids in the draft.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

That's twice this season that our players have failed to play to instructions according to Sam.

Against the Dees and now the Suns.

Not really.

Against the Dees, they played to the instructions, but perhaps overplayed it. Choosing to be very safe with the ball to the point that they were too safe and we just kept switching from wing to wing.

Haven’t seen the suns game, but Sam is talking about how they trained later on Saturday night to try a acclimatise to the conditions and they had some sort of discussion around what wouldn’t be the way to play those conditions and yet there was obviously moments within the game, where we would continue to do that anyway.
Whether that’s taking on tacklers or trying to play perfect football in conditions that we’re not very good in with younger bodies, that’s up for discussion I guess

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We don’t have generational players coming through that’s the problem.

The late wins in each season has really hurts us long terms with getting these elite kids in the draft.

You have no idea if we have generational players coming through. You’re just impatient.

 

[SSSSSS]

Our defensive intent is so poor. Again smashed in the tackles. Haven't got close to winning a tackle count all season.

We had 100 less touches. If there was any game where we should be tackling more it was last night.

We dont have the ability to play bruise free footy and get away with it.

 

[mustang]

I still haven’t seen the game, but I hope everyone’s had a chance to listen to the full press conference after the game.

Especially those who are saying that we played like the coach wanted us to. He seems genuinely frustrated at the lack of strength in the contest and the refusal to play to the conditions.

Probably best you don’t watch it save yourself the frustration.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Its times like these that supporters need to be reminded of the old classic sayings about football.

Its never as good or bad as it seems. Two 6 days breaks a disheartening loss last week.

A week is a long time in football. This time last week we were enjoying a great second half.

There is always next week

We play a team where we have a great chance to win. Its amazing what a win does for a team

 

[mustang]

Not really.

Against the Dees, they played to the instructions, but perhaps overplayed it. Choosing to be very safe with the ball to the point that they were too safe and we just kept switching from wing to wing.

Haven’t seen the suns game, but Sam is talking about how they trained later on Saturday night to try a acclimatise to the conditions and they had some sort of discussion around what wouldn’t be the way to play those conditions and yet there was obviously moments within the game, where we would continue to do that anyway.
Whether that’s taking on tacklers or trying to play perfect football in conditions that we’re not very good in with younger bodies, that’s up for discussion I guess

They can’t complain about those conditions it was very good for football.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Probably best you don’t watch it save yourself the frustration.

I have seen the game twice now. You take the good with the bad

 

[BobHawk]

You have no idea if we have generational players coming through. You’re just impatient.

Tend to agree. The list isn't as bad as posters seem to think it is. People need to stop being negative towards individuals and the list and look at the bigger issue that is playing out.

 

[mustang]

You have no idea if we have generational players coming through. You’re just impatient.

Nah I’m not impatient I just want to see improvement each game.

 

[toomanysquibs]

I still haven’t seen the game, but I hope everyone’s had a chance to listen to the full press conference after the game.

Especially those who are saying that we played like the coach wanted us to. He seems genuinely frustrated at the lack of strength in the contest and the refusal to play to the conditions.

From the moment Nash got caught ball watching at a center bounce, leaving Rowell free on the outside to leg it with an easy clearance, we were in trouble.

Doubly so maybe, because if you watch very little footy, you'd still know that Rowell had an identical highlight over the last couple of weeks. Only thing that changed was the jumper.

GC were very slick on the outside, and knew where to put the ball without having to think too much where their teammates were going to be. When they were up and about in the first, they made it look like as uncontested a game as I've seen.

Hardly end of the world stuff. Umpires stepped up to match our performance, with some puzzling calls. We weren't on at all though.

Fact is that we are not up to a slick, highly skilled team playing in sync with each other right now.

And GC look like a top four team if you let them burn you on the inside and give them space outside the contest like we did right off the bat. They have some super players with good size and speed.

Better times to come for us though, because we do too.

 

[offtherails9]

I haven’t actually seen the game but the result and stats to me suggest it’s a case of a young team pretty knackered after having a real crack at the Cats and Pies off a six day break. We’ll get a win next week

 

[madhawksfan]

Fitness and conditioning team need to be sacked. We have a team of runners who can’t tackle and a number of soft tissue/load related injuries already.

Sicily, Nash, Newk and Lewis have looked either injured or underdone all season.

Last night was a heartless performance (outside of Finn, Mass, Weddle, Amon, Frost, Scrim and Meek).

Every player on the list has regressed bar Meek, Worpel and Scrim and our midfield is a joke and forward line is soft. Backline is doing as well as can be expected with the lack of pressure from the mids.

Whatever game style we are going for, it is not going to beat anyone if you can’t win a clearance or apply consistent forward pressure. Butler can’t play AFL again and Chol is lucky Lewis is injured.

Time to get some players with X factor and/or mongrel into the square. Why not try Weddle in there? He seriously can’t do any worse.

Should be about 4-5 outs after last night (Butler, Ward, Nash, Chol and Meek injured). Frenchie and CMac would be close to being dropped as well.

Cannot see us winning against North this week sadly. They at least play with heart and system every week.

Mitchell should be under the microscope if things don’t turn around quickly. Is a very poor tactician who has been thoroughly out coached every game (bar last week).

 

[HedgeFund]

Possibly, but this season is shaping up as the worst i've seen...

Granted I have been very blessed to have started following the mighty Hawks from the golden year of 1983, so can't complain

2004 was the worst I can recall.

4 wins 18 losses and a percentage of 70.2

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Come on even with your sunshine and rainbows view of the list build how it’s going,
you must admit we have gone massively backwards then you were expecting.

It’s called being patient and rational rather than concluding that a bunch of players that are still 20-21 years old and have played less than 30 games are not going to be great players.

Go and have a look at what Sam Mitchell was averaging as a 20-year-old.

Your continued opinion that we just need to trade players out to “get more kid” is mind numbing when you continually jump to conclude that those kids we do have won’t be the difference anyway.

 

[Paul Kersey]

2004 was the worst I can recall.

4 wins 18 losses and a percentage of 70.2

Those Port losses. Ouch.

 

[H00t]

Compared to other clubs we don’t have the senior players and on field set up to ease our younger players in.

They are being asked to do a lot more than is ideal. It’s hard for younger players to play well in a team that’s struggling.

Put any of our younger players in a better team and they wouldn’t be finding it as difficult to get involved.

The problem is it’s a time thing having our players get the experience and build synergy with each other.

Just have to look for the small positives along the way.