Opinion Should Minson spend more time at FF?

[patto#27]

Obviously I am fairly biased as Minno has been my favourite player for quite a few years, but i honestly think he isn't a terrible option in the forward line, and quite possibly should be playing more minutes there, especially when we are playing 3 ruckmen.

Although he is slow, he is generally quite good with the one on ones, and when he is out numbered, he is very good at creating a contest, breaking the packs and bringing the ball to ground and he is certainly one of our more reliable shots at goal. He has proven on a few occasions in the past 12 months that he can do it (Ala richmond last season and carlton this pre-season), as well as in the past (2008-2009), that he can kick goals, and maybe should be getting more time in the forward line.

Of course I understand that on the flip side, Minson is head and shoulders our best ruckman, and would be a valuable asset to lose.

Are Roughead and Campbell good enough to ruck for an extra 15-20 minutes a game to give Minson those extra minutes to perhaps prove himself up forward in 2012?

Of course I am not expecting him to kick a bag every week, and most likely will never kick a huge number of goals, but even if he is just able to break the packs and bring the ball to ground, that would warrant more time spent down in the forward line. (just a quick add, yes i know cordy is a half decent contested mark at times, I don't believe he is great at making a contest, breaking a pack, and bringing the ball to ground, not yet anyways).

 

[dogzrule]

he might be able to kick the odd goal but he will not consistently deliver at FF. He is not a forward he is a ruckman

Cordy is not a forward he is a ruckman

Roughead is not a forward he is a ruckman

Cambpell is not a forward he is a ruckman

Enough of short sighted plugging holes, develop a key position player not a stop gap

 

[TedDougChris]

he might be able to kick the odd goal but he will not consistently deliver at FF. He is not a forward he is a ruckman

Cordy is not a forward he is a ruckman

Roughead is not a forward he is a ruckman

Cambpell is not a forward he is a ruckman

Enough of short sighted plugging holes, develop a key position player not a stop gap

While I agree with what you have said, who are we going to develop as a key forward target ?? Who ???????? Jones is the only one I can think of. And I think he's better suited to CHF...

In some regards, I think playing Minno at FF is a reasonable idea for this year and I have suggested it previously. It gives our future rucks more time in the middle, it gives us a better target to kick to, and a target that can actually kick.... How many misses have Jones, Cordy and Roughead had this year...

 

[King_snow]

No. His work around the group is missed to much when his up forward

 

[Olde 54]

he might be able to kick the odd goal but he will not consistently deliver at FF. He is not a forward he is a ruckman

Cordy is not a forward he is a ruckman

Roughead is not a forward he is a ruckman

Cambpell is not a forward he is a ruckman

Enough of short sighted plugging holes, develop a key position player not a stop gap

This.

 

[mackem]

he might be able to kick the odd goal but he will not consistently deliver at FF. He is not a forward he is a ruckman

Cordy is not a forward he is a ruckman

Roughead is not a forward he is a ruckman

Cambpell is not a forward he is a ruckman

Enough of short sighted plugging holes, develop a key position player not a stop gap

Who do you suggest we develop into a KP if Cordy, Roughhead & Campbell are ruckman and not forwards.

We recruited Brain Harris(Lake) as a forward but played him at full back.

I get annoyed when people make statements like yours but don't suggest anyone to do the job.

As I don't get to watch the Williamstown games I don't know who is good enough to develop as a full forward.

 

[dogwatch]

While I agree with what you have said, who are we going to develop as a key forward target ?? Who ???????? Jones is the only one I can think of. And I think he's better suited to CHF...

In some regards, I think playing Minno at FF is a reasonable idea for this year and I have suggested it previously. It gives our future rucks more time in the middle, it gives us a better target to kick to, and a target that can actually kick.... How many misses have Jones, Cordy and Roughead had this year...

We have Hill, Redpath and maybe Panos as FF prospects. Possibly even Roberts. I thought that would have been clear by now as the topic has been done to death here. Jones is probably more a CHF. That's also been discussed at length.

I disagree about Cordy. I think he is worth persevering with as a KPF. But yes, the other three are ruckman. Roughead could maybe be OK as a KPP but looks more of a ruckman to me.

Minno could snag a few goals at FF but is worth more to us in the ruck and if played as a FF it only hinders development of a genuine long term prospect and perhaps hides the current deficiency (i.e. we have no mature FF yet).

 

[Bulldog1954]

With all due respect to Minno who is a good player but its a bit sad that a guy who did play a lot for Willi last season is now our best ruckman and probably our best key forward

 

[King_snow]

I like Ayce at FF and i really look forward to seeing him develop

 

[UnCani]

With all due respect to Minno who is a good player but its a bit sad that a guy who did play a lot for Willi last season is now our best ruckman and probably our best key forward

About explains where we are at. He is at best a 'serviceable' ruckman. In our team he is one of the better players this year.

Probably will be the one that leaves or is moved on at the end of the season.

 

[Unnamed1]

About explains where we are at. He is at best a 'serviceable' ruckman. In our team he is one of the better players this year.

Probably will be the one that leaves or is moved on at the end of the season.

I doubt he'll leave, and I doubt even more so he'll be moved on. You simply don't "move on" players who are likely to finish in the B&F top 5 without having a good reason...usually an off-field reason.

 

[_Mike_]

Pointless trying Minson at FF now, its better to use him in tandem with Campbell for the remainder of the season. As for Roughhead, Jones and Cordy, what do you do with so many talls.

Cordy is the only one viable for developing as a FF but he's way off at the moment and looks out of position. Is the answer with Panos or Redpath being developed into FF's? I think so.

 

[TedDougChris]

We have Hill, Redpath and maybe Panos as FF prospects. Possibly even Roberts. I thought that would have been clear by now as the topic has been done to death here. Jones is probably more a CHF. That's also been discussed at length.

I disagree about Cordy. I think he is worth persevering with as a KPF. But yes, the other three are ruckman. Roughead could maybe be OK as a KPP but looks more of a ruckman to me.

Minno could snag a few goals at FF but is worth more to us in the ruck and if played as a FF it only hinders development of a genuine long term prospect and perhaps hides the current deficiency (i.e. we have no mature FF yet).

I agree that Minno is our #1 ruck at the moment. That's not in dispute. But the guys you have mentioned above as our prospects have played a combined 0 senior games. That's right - 0. For a massive combined total of 0 goals. I'm not writing them off, they may prove to be fantastic forwards, but they aren't playing at the moment. If they aren't going to get a game, and we need to look at alternative options up front, who else is there ?

I understand your last comment and agree, we are shuffling decks chairs on the titanic here. But, at present we cannot take a mark or kick a goal in F50. The only one, who has actually shown he can do this (even if it's hit and miss) is Minson.

Longer term, it may be beneficial to have Cordy/Campbell/Roughead spend more time in the centre square, particularly if we do not keep Will (or he decides to leave) at the end of the year. Just like last year it would have been beneficial to give Will the last 8 - 10 games as #1 ruck, as we all knew Hudson wasn't going to be here this season.

Will isn't the permanent solution at FF. We all know that, but if we aren't going to play a young kid to develop them, and we know the current approach isn't working, suggest a valid alternative ?

 

[Morta23]

Big no for Minno at FF for me. Much prefer seeing Cordy up there if we are to have any ruckmen playing that role.

 

[dogwatch]

Will isn't the permanent solution at FF. We all know that, but if we aren't going to play a young kid to develop them, and we know the current approach isn't working, suggest a valid alternative ?

This is what amazes me, with all the talk of developing young players and the obvious lack of results at FF, we still haven't tried Hill (languishing in Willi 2nds where he kicked another 5 on Sunday) or Panos (6 goals in his last 6 quarters as a forward at Willi). Both have been in the system for at least 2-3 years so it's not like they are still skinny kids.

So, yes, if you are NOT going to try out any of the young players, I don't give a stuff. Put Gilbee there or, let's see, who else is 30-ish? Hargrave? Lake? I really don't care because it is not taking us forward.

 

[Mutt]

This is what amazes me, with all the talk of developing young players and the obvious lack of results at FF, we still haven't tried Hill (languishing in Willi 2nds where he kicked another 5 on Sunday) or Panos (6 goals in his last 6 quarters as a forward at Willi). Both have been in the system for at least 2-3 years so it's not like they are still skinny kids.

So, yes, if you are NOT going to try out any of the young players, I don't give a stuff. Put Gilbee there or, let's see, who else is 30-ish? Hargrave? Lake? I really don't care because it is not taking us forward.

Not claiming any inside knowlege here but trying to read the tea-leaves a bit. I would say that Panos will definitely get a run at AFL level but not until he is finished his "program" at Willi. I expect him to come into the side in the next month or so. Hill might be a bit further back and may not get an AFL run until very late in 2012 or even NAB cup next year.

 

[TedDougChris]

This is what amazes me, with all the talk of developing young players and the obvious lack of results at FF, we still haven't tried Hill (languishing in Willi 2nds where he kicked another 5 on Sunday) or Panos (6 goals in his last 6 quarters as a forward at Willi). Both have been in the system for at least 2-3 years so it's not like they are still skinny kids.

So, yes, if you are NOT going to try out any of the young players, I don't give a stuff. Put Gilbee there or, let's see, who else is 30-ish? Hargrave? Lake? I really don't care because it is not taking us forward.

I'm happy to give Hill or Panos a go, I think that would be a better long term option. I'm hoping that we get another 5 - 6 games into each of Cordy, Campbell, Roughead, Hill, Panos etc before the year is out, for their development and for evaluation of their abilities a little further.

However, if we aren't ready to go down this path, there are potential short term and longer term benefits if we do stick Will at FF for a month or so. It doesn't solve the FF issue, but will help the longer term development of Campbell, Cordy et al as frontline ruckmen...

 

[TMoney22]

Minson is by far the best one on one mark in our side (except Lake of course). Yet in these situations i reckon 3 out of 10 times no one kicks it to him.
He is a ruckman who can rest forward. That is how he should be played.

 

[dogzrule]

Who do you suggest we develop into a KP if Cordy, Roughhead & Campbell are ruckman and not forwards.

We recruited Brain Harris(Lake) as a forward but played him at full back.

I get annoyed when people make statements like yours but don't suggest anyone to do the job.

As I don't get to watch the Williamstown games I don't know who is good enough to develop as a full forward.

Jones is the closest thing we have to a good KPF, once he builds more strength and presence.Apart from that until we see Panos or Hill given a go or Redpath etc mature the stocks are low

I am not saying Cordy, Roughead, Campbell and Minson are not good player or wont develop, what I am saying is that they have either been tried and failed as forwards (Minson prior to Hall) or they look to me as if they are naturally better at playing ruck so why not use their strengths instead of trying to fill holes and continually failing at kicking scores over 80 points

There is a big difference in the way Hall, Dunstall, Lockett & Lloyd went about being Key position forwards than our 4 ruck combination, IMO the key differences are Speed off the Mark and Agility, something you dont necessarily need to be a good ruckman but you do to be a key forward.

Let the Rucks Ruck and dont play them out of position

 

[King_snow]

Jones is the closest thing we have to a good KPF, once he builds more strength and presence.Apart from that until we see Panos or Hill given a go or Redpath etc mature the stocks are low

I am not saying Cordy, Roughead, Campbell and Minson are not good player or wont develop, what I am saying is that they have either been tried and failed as forwards (Minson prior to Hall) or they look to me as if they are naturally better at playing ruck so why not use their strengths instead of trying to fill holes and continually failing at kicking scores over 80 points

There is a big difference in the way Hall, Dunstall, Lockett & Lloyd went about being Key position forwards than our 4 ruck combination, IMO the key differences are Speed off the Mark and Agility, something you dont necessarily need to be a good ruckman but you do to be a key forward.

Let the Rucks Ruck and dont play them out of position

so your saying that in Ayce Cordys first year at FF he has already failed?

 

[dogzrule]

so your saying that in Ayce Cordys first year at FF he has already failed?

9 games 6 goals as a FF, yes I expect more from someone playing solely as a FF

 

[UnCani]

I doubt he'll leave, and I doubt even more so he'll be moved on. You simply don't "move on" players who are likely to finish in the B&F top 5 without having a good reason...usually an off-field reason.

We have a few good reasons.
He is as good as he is going to get - No upside.
He is worth a pick.
We have a ton of mediocre ruck men.

 

[Barkly St End]

I certainly think he can rotate through full forward, with either Ayce or Jordan - the question becomes whether we have a structure that allows two of the three to be camped deep in the forward line on a permanent basis.

 

[UnCani]

I certainly think he can rotate through full forward, with either Ayce or Jordan - the question becomes whether we have a structure that allows two of the three to be camped deep in the forward line on a permanent basis.

That would be awesome. Cant wait for it to be tried.
Two forwards that wont lead and can barley take a contested mark!
What a great idea

 

[Barkly St End]

That would be awesome. Cant wait for it to be tried.
Two forwards that wont lead and can barley take a contested mark!
What a great idea

Which are the two that can't take a contested mark - and which one is the one who can take a contested mark?