pretty much sums it up, right or wrong.
Even a GC Sharks w/ an alignment with southport is fraught with risk in that respect.
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Even a GC Sharks w/ an alignment with southport is fraught with risk in that respect.
What Southport would have brought to the table is actual facilities. The Suns were training out of tin sheds for the best part of a decade because the AFL set them up so shoddily. And their ground is a lot easier to reach than Carrara, which is in a swamp in the middle of nowhere.
So in essence, Southport looks very good by comparison to what the Suns actually were, but if the AFL weren't incompetent they could probably have set up a club even better than Southport could have.
Lived there. Southport has an amazing club with 50k members and awesome discounts on roasts. This does not translate into AFL power. If the Sharks got into the AFL, they would have done it under the conditions North Melbourne would have been subjected to if they accepted the relocation offer - the Kangaroos flipped a giant bird at the AFL when they demanded complete control of their board in return for the $50m cash, and went back to writing NORTH MELBOURNE in capital letters on their logo. The AFL then had to establish their own franchise, and the advantage of doing this as opposed to Southport was that they had control over training facilities and the running of the club without having to make a deal. If Southport tried to get a bit uppity under this arrangement, the AFL had the option of taking their business to one or two other teams on the GC without affecting the viability of the franchise.
Do remember we're talking about the GC here, a corporate mentality unto itself, and when the AFL was marching into town there had never been a successful sporting franchise in any sport, due mainly to the ridiculous way megalomaniac suits would hijack teams and run them into the ground. The AFL was never going to allow the locals to run any part of the side, which is what would have happened if Southport got a licence. At that point in time, the Gold Coast Titans were going through all sorts of issues administratively, so you can imagine the AFL wouldn't have looked at local businessmen with any great admiration if they couldn't handle Qld's favourite sport, let alone a new start up franchise in hostile territory with potential billion dollar tv rights attached to it...
Do remember we're talking about the GC here, a corporate mentality unto itself, and when the AFL was marching into town there had never been a successful sporting franchise in any sport, due mainly to the ridiculous way megalomaniac suits would hijack teams and run them into the ground. The AFL was never going to allow the locals to run any part of the side, which is what would have happened if Southport got a licence. At that point in time, the Gold Coast Titans were going through all sorts of issues administratively, so you can imagine the AFL wouldn't have looked at local businessmen with any great admiration if they couldn't handle Qld's favourite sport, let alone a new start up franchise in hostile territory with potential billion dollar tv rights attached to it...
Southport isn't that easy to get to. It's stuck up the top a million miles from the GC south, with terrible traffic movement going south and coming in from the NW. Carrara is more central, between the Pacific Motorway and the strip, right next to the motorway you'd use if you were trying to avoid the coast...
The Suns did use Fankhauser early on, not sure when that stopped, but by that time the Suns were doing way better with facilities at Carrara than the Bears did in the 1980's...
This would have been fine had the AFL been any better at setting up a club than all those businessmen. Instead they set it up to fail, then had to come in and resuscitate it after 7-8 years.
This isn't the 70s, most people don't drive to games anymore. Fankhauser Reserve is near the light rail line. Carrara is not. And there's very little parking available at Carrara anyway.
They have a good set up now, but that only came in several years after the club started. I'm sure Jirik13 or Billy ray can tell you all about how terrible the training and admin facilities used to be.
Bjo187
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I'm sure Southport would have been up for a power sharing arrangement if it meant an afl license. 55 percent AFL ownership, 45 percent sharks.
Exactly. But the AFL didn't want to share any of it. Therefore the Sharks were never going to be more than an outsourced training facility...
The majority of fans drive and walk in combination to any sporting event. There's transport to Carrara if you park at a place with a shuttle service, no different to taking the bus from Roma St to the Gabba. There was no light rail until 2014. Fankhauser has more onsite parking, but it's also right in the middle of suburbia, and has the hospital precinct right next to it on the other side. You'd know how restrictive the Gabba parking is - I used to live in Norman St in East Brisbane with room to park 6 cars underneath the house, and for a while there I mistakenly thought my popularity with mates was because of my sparkling personality. They would have done the same thing with Southport, because the last thing you'd want is a blocked ambulance...
When Skase bought the Bears, Carrara was a country oval in the middle of miles of paddocks. By the time moves were made for expansion, well before any actual proposals were made, the oval had a lot of redevelopment done for the Chargers, and the next decade saw a few AFL-aligned improvements, partly because the Lions were taking pre-season games down there...the 2006 Commonwealth Games gave GC footy a real shot in the arm because the AFL needed alternative venues. It was a mile ahead of Fankhauser when the expansion team became a thing, and noone was backing anywhere else...
This is 100% bullshit.
Southport discussed joining the AFL before the Suns, but the they would loose control over their club by becoming an "AFL Franchise", so they decided not to pursue it.
Southport are one of the richest sporting club in the country, and everything they do for their members turns to gold. They didn't want to give that up to be pawn of the AFL boys club and their politics/power games.
Southport have a very smart and well credentialed board and leadership team. A few years ago the AFL begged them to take over the Gold Coast Suns licence, as the Suns were so dysfunctional the AFL wanted them dissolved. Southport rejected the AFL's offer. They then decided to put a team in the VFL, with no plan at all to join the AFL.
This came from an Ex-Southport senior executive at the time of the events.
Not sure why the OP decided to make up false information.
So, according to your source, Southport wanted to enter the league in the 90s/2000s but then changed their mind when they found out the AFL wanted full control of the club. Then the AFL begged them to take over the Suns and Southport said no. Then the AFL let the Sharks into the VFL but again Southport had no desire whatsoever to enter the AFL. You realise how unbelievable that chain of events sounds, right?
For those interested in actual reports, here's one from 2004 when Southport were trying to lure the Demons into relocating to the Gold Coast to merge with the Sharks. Would have been an interesting venture if had played out and I assume we would have the Gold Coast Demons based in Southport and competing in the AFL today.
No Champ - they didn't want to enter the league, they considered it.
Not sure what you think is unbelievable, but I'd believe the word of people actually running the club over a newspaper article from 19 years ago that contains unfounded speculation.
Is it the part about the Suns that has your panties in a bunch? I know people that have been involved at a few different levels at the Suns, and the Board, Exec team and head coach were all an absolute disaster the last few years, that's why the AFL wanted to pull their licence.
Bjo187
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Now I'm not one of those people that is critical of people with inside info just coz they don't have any info themselves, but it does sound pretty far fetched.
Why would the afl with their arrogance pull a licence of a club that they invented and put all their cronies in to manage initially? It is basically admitting their own incompetence.
Then why would the sharks that have always wanted to play in the AFL reject any offer to be in the AFL in some form?
It would be dumb decisions from both the afl and sharks if it were true.
Why would the afl with their arrogance pull a licence of a club that they invented and put all their cronies in to manage initially? It is basically admitting their own incompetence.
Then why would the sharks that have always wanted to play in the AFL reject any offer to be in the AFL in some form?
It would be dumb decisions from both the afl and sharks if it were true.
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Say you were part of the Shark’s board, a very successful club in its own right, and wanting to join the AFL… how disappointing would it be to find out that to join the AFL you and your fellow board mates have to step down? Why would you ever agree to a deal so heavily weighted in favour of the AFL like that? And so weighted against your own individual interests as a board member? That’s a lot of trust to put on the AFL and whoever they decide (strangers, really) to put in control of a club you love (and love running, let’s be honest). Remember, this isn’t a new start-up. This is a 60+ year old club with its own identity. So imagine the relief and “thank god we didn’t” you’d feel years later after it all came out about how atrociously run the Suns were in the beginning, too. Basically, Southport dodged a major bullet.
Mind, I don’t know about the AFL ‘begging’ Southport to step in, there’s a bit of mayo there for sure, but I don’t doubt the AFL would rekindle a conversation to see if Southport were still interested in an AFL license (but now under the proviso they merge with the Suns - because the AFL won’t just kill the Suns, that’d be admitting they failed at setting them up - but a merger would be a different beast and a different conversation). But the Sharks would have no interest in merging with the Suns (North Melbourne supporters, are you interested?). They’d maybe be interested in a merger with a big club with history, like a relocation, but I can’t imagine they’d ever agree to merge with a ten year old club just to save the AFL’s face (presumably).
Those are the facts. Don't care if you want to live in fantasy land or not - just correcting a bullshit OP.
I'll mention another thing that is related to the topic (I posted this a while ago in a rumours thread).
Southport have so much money they struggle to spend it. They are a massive contributor to sport in SEQLD. They were gifting the Suns approx $1.2 million per year. Didn't require anything in return, except a corporate box, which also comes with a couple of signs.
Southport built a hotel near their ground. A few years ago they went to the Suns - who have pretty much no assets, and said instead of giving you $1.2 million per year (which is not guaranteed), how about we give you 20% ownership of our new hotel? This would guarantee income and an asset to leverage in borrowing or a profit by selling in the future.
Tony Cochrane told them 'no, just keep giving us the money'.
The Sharks board were dumbfounded at the stupidity of Cochrane and his team. They pulled the offer of the equity in the hotel and stopped the $1.2 annual gift.
Now they only pay about $40k per year for a corporate box.
In the latest financial reports the EBITDA on the hotel is $3.3m, which would have meant $660k to the Suns, plus any other money gifted from Southport, and an asset worth about $5m-$6m, with growth expected to continue.
Southport have so much money they struggle to spend it. They are a massive contributor to sport in SEQLD. They were gifting the Suns approx $1.2 million per year. Didn't require anything in return, except a corporate box, which also comes with a couple of signs.
Southport built a hotel near their ground. A few years ago they went to the Suns - who have pretty much no assets, and said instead of giving you $1.2 million per year (which is not guaranteed), how about we give you 20% ownership of our new hotel? This would guarantee income and an asset to leverage in borrowing or a profit by selling in the future.
Tony Cochrane told them 'no, just keep giving us the money'.
The Sharks board were dumbfounded at the stupidity of Cochrane and his team. They pulled the offer of the equity in the hotel and stopped the $1.2 annual gift.
Now they only pay about $40k per year for a corporate box.
In the latest financial reports the EBITDA on the hotel is $3.3m, which would have meant $660k to the Suns, plus any other money gifted from Southport, and an asset worth about $5m-$6m, with growth expected to continue.
Cal Silky
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I'm glad the Sharks didn't become an AFL franchise. As a few have said already, it wouldn't have gone down well with the other GC clubs. I played junior footy on the GC too and everyone hates Southport.
Yeah the Suns have taken a decade plus to get going, but Southport would have been the same if not worse. It has everything to do with the 'casual culture' on the GC meaning that people from there don't really have the same passion for hometown teams as just about every other place in the country does. All you have to do is look at every pro sports team in GC history--they're pretty much all defunct. QLD fans in general are also very fair weather. Suns have been a basketcase their whole existence but are just now looking like they're coming good. The fans will come if they stay good. Just a few years ago you could throw a blanket over all the Lions fans at a Gabba game. This year you had to buy tickets in advance as it was often selling out. Obviously rising support for good teams isn't unique to QLD, but it's certainly accentuated here.
The AFL has done really well growing the game in SEQ. Even when I was playing junior footy only a decade ago it was still pretty niche. I was one of three guys in my grade who played footy (and no girls), compared to everyone else who played union, league or soccer. These days so many more kids are playing footy, and it's because of the Suns and their academy. Now we've got a situation where their academy is so good that people are rethinking draft rules. This is quantifiably a massive tick for the AFL.
Southport wouldn't have been able to achieve this without handing everything over to the AFL, and changing their colours (Collingwood) and identity (Southport -> GC), ultimately eroding any identity the club had anyway. Way easier to just start a new franchise.
Yeah the Suns have taken a decade plus to get going, but Southport would have been the same if not worse. It has everything to do with the 'casual culture' on the GC meaning that people from there don't really have the same passion for hometown teams as just about every other place in the country does. All you have to do is look at every pro sports team in GC history--they're pretty much all defunct. QLD fans in general are also very fair weather. Suns have been a basketcase their whole existence but are just now looking like they're coming good. The fans will come if they stay good. Just a few years ago you could throw a blanket over all the Lions fans at a Gabba game. This year you had to buy tickets in advance as it was often selling out. Obviously rising support for good teams isn't unique to QLD, but it's certainly accentuated here.
The AFL has done really well growing the game in SEQ. Even when I was playing junior footy only a decade ago it was still pretty niche. I was one of three guys in my grade who played footy (and no girls), compared to everyone else who played union, league or soccer. These days so many more kids are playing footy, and it's because of the Suns and their academy. Now we've got a situation where their academy is so good that people are rethinking draft rules. This is quantifiably a massive tick for the AFL.
Southport wouldn't have been able to achieve this without handing everything over to the AFL, and changing their colours (Collingwood) and identity (Southport -> GC), ultimately eroding any identity the club had anyway. Way easier to just start a new franchise.
Yeah good post.
I think what some people fail to understand about support for teams on the Gold Coast - there is so much to do on a weekend that people choose to enjoy other things.
Melbourne is the opposite - it's the Sports Watching Capital of Australia. They get big crowds to 6 games of football on the weekend in winter, because quite frankly - there's not much else to do.
Cunnington Cartel
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If you’ve been to Melbourne before and struggled to find things to do then you’ve done it very, very wrong my friend. You can accuse that place of being many things, but boring is not one of them.
Bjo187
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Cal Silky
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Personally I agree with you both and think there's way more to do in Melbourne than the Coast, but that's why I left as soon as I could.More to do on the gold coast that in Australia's biggest city, classic!
If you're a Gold Coast type you're usually pretty content with just the beach and the beers and not really bothered with the cultural stuff Melbourne has to offer--and there's no problem with that, it's just different lifestyles.
The Coast is more a long line of suburbs along the beach rather than a conventional city--nothing is central. PT is s**t. The light rail has been good but only services part of the city. So people generally choose one area to go out in and stay there because an Uber somewhere else will be $$$.
Carrara itself is suburbia, meaning there's * all to do before or after a Suns game and if you don't live close by then at the very least you're going to have to drive to a train station and get the shuttle from Nerang. If you're planning on a big night, this becomes costly and annoying (Uber there and back). Southport would be a little better in this regard with a few dive bars around as well as the light rail, although there's not heaps going on there either.
So usually it's not worth it, and there'll be 'better' (more convenient) things to do.
I always thought in a perfect world they would've put the Suns stadium somewhere in Broady or Mermaid, but this was never going to happen. If they somehow had a stadium in Broadbeach and marketed Suns games as pres they'd have so many more casuals going to games. Probably a lot more drunk gronks too but ticket revenue is ticket revenue.
Anyway, as always the biggest factor with attendance is onfield performance and hopefully they're turning the corner now.
Not buying the above story. Sounds like a wank from a suit at a club that thinks it's bigger than it is. If the Suns were that bad, the AFL wouldn't be outsourcing to a lower league admin - they would do what they did with the Swans and completely reel in the team. It's a bit different to the nominal $10 the AFL needed to buy back control of the Swans, but there is no way they would relinquish the control they have over the Suns franchise or the investment they put into it - in Andy's exact words, "$100m or whatever it takes". The AFL has installed puppet administration into every league across the country, with the exception of WA and SA - the Sharks operate under the umbrella of AFL Qld. And the original plan was to save $50m and get North to do all the moving, before seizing control of their board so the AFL could run the operation all by themselves. The notion that the AFL would treat a 99-season VFL/AFL established franchise with such contempt as part of a plan to dominate the SE of Qld (not for the first time either, ask any Fitzroy fan), but then be overawed by a country footy team's discounted Sunday roast and decent car park...it gets sillier the more you sit and contemplate...
Cunnington Cartel
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With all of the mistakes that were made with the Suns’ establishment, constructing the stadium at Carrara was one of the worst (alongside not having a high performance centre). Classic example of prioritising cost over practicality. If all of the drama in Hobart ends with a world class stadium in a kick arse location then the fight will have been well worth it.
Cal Silky
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It's a shame because in a different location the Suns could've really become a part of the culture. And a few rowdy GA sections would give the joint some atmosphere. Family friendly-marketing is generally the way to go if you're a national pro sport club but that just doesn't hit on the Coast, and it would be so much fun if they did something different.
Stadiums are hellishly expensive, the AFL couldn’t exactly pick and choose when they set the Suns up.
They couldn’t build their own. Getting the govt to build one for them in an awesome position on the Gold Coast would’ve been impossible. It’s an enormous project and wouldn’t be a huge vote winner given the sport’s profile in Qld. The government would’ve laughed at them.
The deal the AFL got to renovate and brand Carrara for the Suns was a very good one and the best that could be expected. Anything more is totally unrealistic.
It’s one for the next generation of the club. Another 20 years minimum, if they grow and have big support, a new stadium will be on the cards then.
Perhaps the Sharks could contribute as a way of getting some equity in the Suns, but even their contribution would be tiny in the scheme of a new stadium.
I’m no Eddie lover, far from it, but his quote on new, elite footy stadiums from earlier this year isn’t far off the truth - don’t expect much change out of $1 billion.
They couldn’t build their own. Getting the govt to build one for them in an awesome position on the Gold Coast would’ve been impossible. It’s an enormous project and wouldn’t be a huge vote winner given the sport’s profile in Qld. The government would’ve laughed at them.
The deal the AFL got to renovate and brand Carrara for the Suns was a very good one and the best that could be expected. Anything more is totally unrealistic.
It’s one for the next generation of the club. Another 20 years minimum, if they grow and have big support, a new stadium will be on the cards then.
Perhaps the Sharks could contribute as a way of getting some equity in the Suns, but even their contribution would be tiny in the scheme of a new stadium.
I’m no Eddie lover, far from it, but his quote on new, elite footy stadiums from earlier this year isn’t far off the truth - don’t expect much change out of $1 billion.
