Opinion The Roughy Experiment - should we persist?

[Libba39]

Nothing has changed for me since last year (see my post further up the page).

Not mobile enough or good enough at ground level to play as a permanent back. Apart from being tall and a solid mark he doesn't have the other weapons to hurt the opposition the other way. For example Lake can play in the air and off the ground and has a penetrating kick on the run.

The only thing that might change my opinion would be if he turned into a physical monster of a player but at this stage in his career I can't see it happening.

Needs to move to ruck/forward if he is going to stay on the list for the next few years.

 

[dogzrule]

He has gone backwards this year, more likely because of injury but he just doesnt seem mobile enough to go with the better Forwards

 

[Dogsman16]

I brought this up last night in another thread but whilst I was having a read at AA related article regarding Tom lonergan and found the stat that out of any number 1 KPD in the game Roughy on average concedes the most goals per game at (2.5). This cannot be blamed on our midfield or other defenders as teams similarly placed as us such as Carlton and Brisbane, well their respective no 1 KPD, Jamison and Clarke only concede (1.2) and (1.4) goals on average per game. I'd love to find a stat saying how many marks conceeding by KPD's on the lead or inside 50 but you would have to presume Roughy would be high up there.

I don't think Moz too would be high up their either having been beaten comprehensively by Franklin, Carlisle, Schulz and J.Riewoldt but in all circumstances Moz was forced to play on bigger sized opponents and often on forwards who had their confidence earlier by taking Roughy to the cleaners.

Austin at times to would have been beaten badly (most notable was Jarrdy Roughead) when he kicked 6.

Quite simply we absolutely cannot maintain our current seniors backline Structure as Roughy isn't mobile enough, Moz isn't big enough and Austin either loses his feet or makes poor decisions.

My opinion is that in 2015 both Fletch (put on a bit more size) and Talia come straight into the 22 and that we trade in a KPD of some description.

Roughy moves to a KPF/2nd Ruck spot in direct competition with Campbell for a plan that these 2 become our fulltime ruckman.

 

[lachy]

I brought this up last night in another thread but whilst I was having a read at AA related article regarding Tom lonergan and found the stat that out of any number 1 KPD in the game Roughy on average concedes the most goals per game at (2.5). This cannot be blamed on our midfield or other defenders as teams similarly placed as us such as Carlton and Brisbane, well their respective no 1 KPD, Jamison and Clarke only concede (1.2) and (1.4) goals on average per game. I'd love to find a stat saying how many marks conceeding by KPD's on the lead or inside 50 but you would have to presume Roughy would be high up there.

I don't think Moz too would be high up their either having been beaten comprehensively by Franklin, Carlisle, Schulz and J.Riewoldt but in all circumstances Moz was forced to play on bigger sized opponents and often on forwards who had their confidence earlier by taking Roughy to the cleaners.

Austin at times to would have been beaten badly (most notable was Jarrdy Roughead) when he kicked 6.

Quite simply we absolutely cannot maintain our current seniors backline Structure as Roughy isn't mobile enough, Moz isn't big enough and Austin either loses his feet or makes poor decisions.

My opinion is that in 2015 both Fletch (put on a bit more size) and Talia come straight into the 22 and that we trade in a KPD of some description.

Roughy moves to a KPF/2nd Ruck spot in direct competition with Campbell for a plan that these 2 become our fulltime ruckman.

Roughy offers much more as a KPF back up KPD and short stints int the Ruck.

Campbell is a ruckman who at best could spend 5 minutes per quarter up forward.

they are not now nor will they ever be in direct competition.

Campbell is in direct competition with Minson and Cordy to fill the 1st and 2nd ruck positions particularly if the substitute role is abolished.

Roughy is complimentary to not in competition with Roberts

 

[Dogsman16]

Roughy offers much more as a KPF back up KPD and short stints int the Ruck.

Campbell is a ruckman who at best could spend 5 minutes per quarter up forward.

they are not now nor will they ever be in direct competition.

Campbell is in direct competition with Minson and Cordy to fill the 1st and 2nd ruck positions particularly if the substitute role is abolished.

Roughy is complimentary to not in competition with Roberts

I think next year Minson will stay number 1 ruckman and the 2nd ruck/forward spot is Campbell's or Roughy's.

Backline should be Talia, Roberts, Moz and we should be trading in a KPD also and if we do then 1 of the three comes out.

 

[BRWB]

I just have a feeling Roughy will end up playing more forward. Like others have said I don't think he is quick enough to be a genuine FB. Yeah he can probably take a resting ruck. But he may be more value fwd and perhaps his stint in the backline has better prepared him for another shot fwd.

If as I suspect, Cordy doesn't make it and as Will's career winds down, it may well be Campbell and Roughy alternating between forward and ruck.

 

[Lex22]

Just out of curiosity, why are people obsessed with playing Roughead as a forward? He's never showed anything there and has looked lost and well out of his depth whenever he's played in the forward half.

Admittedly he has his faults as a defender with his positioning being he's biggest weakness (I think he needs to play a bit more in front of his opponents to accentuate his aerial skills and as such not get caught behind as much) but he can work on that and he's defense with high ball coming in is brilliant (prior to his shoulder injury).

I thought he showed some promise in the ruck a few years ago but Campbell and to a lesser extent Cordy are now ahead of him in that department.

I'd be getting his body right and keeping him in defense. He's game needs work sure, but he has showed so much more in the backline than anywhere else.

 

[Mofra]

Just out of curiosity, why are people obsessed with playing Roughead as a forward? He's never showed anything there and has looked lost and well out of his depth whenever he's played in the forward half.

I disagree - he did show an ability to get to the contest and take a contested mark.
His kicking for goal was terrible though: since then his kicking and contested work has improved, as you would expect with years of development in a professional system.

Nobody is expecting him to become Simon Beasley overnight, but R2 is a very difficult role to play (which is why so few teams have a good one) and if Roughy can make it as an R2/swingman, we'll be ahead of the pack in at least one position.

 

[Lex22]

I disagree - he did show an ability to get to the contest and take a contested mark.
His kicking for goal was terrible though: since then his kicking and contested work has improved, as you would expect with years of development in a professional system.

Nobody is expecting him to become Simon Beasley overnight, but R2 is a very difficult role to play (which is why so few teams have a good one) and if Roughy can make it as an R2/swingman, we'll be ahead of the pack in at least one position.

I'm really struggling to see why Jones can't play that role to be honest, I know he's ruck work needs some fine tuning but he's got all the natural attributes to play 2nd ruck/2nd or 3rd forward role.

It depends on how much importance we place on that position. If we see that role as purely a guy that can give the first ruck a chop out for 10-20% of the game and provide a stronger forward option than perhaps persevere with Jones. If we want the 2nd ruck role to ruck at least 1/3 of the game then we're probably better off with Campbell or Cordy and just get them to be more of just a contest provider alongside a Patton type as a forward or maybe go into the backline if we want to be more nimble up front.

I get the feeling that the genuine 2nd ruckman will come right back into AFL footy should the interchange rotations be considerably reduced, but we can't really act on that until it happens.

 

[immortalmike]

I disagree - he did show an ability to get to the contest and take a contested mark.
His kicking for goal was terrible though: since then his kicking and contested work has improved, as you would expect with years of development in a professional system.

Nobody is expecting him to become Simon Beasley overnight, but R2 is a very difficult role to play (which is why so few teams have a good one) and if Roughy can make it as an R2/swingman, we'll be ahead of the pack in at least one position.

When has he ever taken s contested mark forward? I'd suggest that has never happened. At least I've never seen it.

Roughie is a back and he's a leader. Yes he can be found out a bit but he's still learning and hasn't exactly been healthy. Second half of last year and the early part of this year is enough for me.

 

[Mofra]

When has he ever taken s contested mark forward? I'd suggest that has never happened. At least I've never seen it.

He did plenty of times, especially early in his career as a forward learning his craft between VFL & AFL level.
He's taken 78 contested marks at AFL level over his career. He one of our better contested marks, and having a ruckman's nous he knows how to bring the ball to ground in an advantageous area.

Given the flexibility B-Mac wants in players, I wouldn't be surprised to see him spend more minutes forward in 2015 provided we can find defensive cover,

 

[Lex22]

He did plenty of times, especially early in his career as a forward learning his craft between VFL & AFL level.
He's taken 78 contested marks at AFL level over his career. He one of our better contested marks, and having a ruckman's nous he knows how to bring the ball to ground in an advantageous area.

Given the flexibility B-Mac wants in players, I wouldn't be surprised to see him spend more minutes forward in 2015 provided we can find defensive cover,

I've just never really seen him go forward and play well for a good stretch of time, ie 2-3 games. Sure he might have bobbed up a few times and taken a mark and kicked a goal, hell even Brian Lake used to that on the odd occasion.

It would be great if Roughy could be a Harry Taylor type swingman, but I think that's asking way too much.

 

[Mofra]

It would be great if Roughy could be a Harry Taylor type swingman, but I think that's asking way too much.

Yep - but I don't think anyone is asking that of him.

 

[Sharkey66]

Yep - but I don't think anyone is asking that of him.

From what i've seen he has no problem getting the ball in the forward line, its what he does with it after woods that is the problem. seems to go anywhere but through the 2 big sticks.

 

[acker]

Something wrong with Roughead's shoulder

His performance after damaging it dropped off considerably

I was the one who started this xxxx - Roughy I'm sorry your playing with some kind of shoulder injury that needs to be fixed

 

[candymanwb]

Confirmed - Surgery this Thursday on his shoulder. Was at training this morning and the question was asked.

 

[fronkalicious]

The "roughy is an awful forward" thing is a bit weird to me. He was just a kid in a seriously shite team when he played there. I like him as a key defender, but i think he'd be an excellent forward/ruck also. He's a genuine talent IMO.

 

[VitalDread]

Once he gets healthy and has another preseason as a key back
he will show improvements in that area

 

[Unorth]

The "roughy is an awful forward" thing is a bit weird to me. He was just a kid in a seriously shite team when he played there. I like him as a key defender, but i think he'd be an excellent forward/ruck also. He's a genuine talent IMO.

I agree. I shudder when I remember the dark days of the 2012 forward line; Roughead, Cordy and Jones. With the development all of them lacked at that stage, combined with less than stellar delivery and the lack of coordination between them, none of them really had a chance to show something. If we play Talia/Roberts/Morris next year for a game or two with Roughie up forward (Maybe in the VFL first though, to get him used to it) I wouldn't complain. If we get a KPF though, then maybe he stays in defence to hopefully show improvement.

 

[stmookeyj]

Today probably provided more answers to this question, unless we attract someone better than Austin and Young (which really shouldn't be that hard) then we'll have to persist.

 

[Some Idiot]

When has he ever taken s contested mark forward? I'd suggest that has never happened. At least I've never seen it.

Roughie is a back and he's a leader. Yes he can be found out a bit but he's still learning and hasn't exactly been healthy. Second half of last year and the early part of this year is enough for me.

He did take a few very good grabs as a forward, but his set shot kicking was comical.

 

[immortalmike]

He did take a few very good grabs as a forward, but his set shot kicking was comical.

When? I watch every home game live and watch all others on television. I've never seen him take a contested grab in the forwardline. Never. So at the very least he hasn't been able to do it regularly. He is a defender, and will be a very good one at that.

 

[Some Idiot]

When? I watch every home game live and watch all others on television. I've never seen him take a contested grab in the forwardline. Never. So at the very least he hasn't been able to do it regularly. He is a defender, and will be a very good one at that.

2010/2011 when he played a few games as the second ruckman.

 

[Igloo]

I remember one against GC and one against Brisbane.

 

[immortalmike]

2010/2011 when he played a few games as the second ruckman.

I remember one against GC and one against Brisbane.

Fair enough. Will have to go through some of the old tapes I have, but it doesn't fill me with confidence that the two games quoted were against s**t opposition and next to Barry Hall.