List Mgmt. The Whipping Boys?

[baldandbroke]

I’m still holding out some hope for the BF most loathed players to win over some of the haters.

Of those yet to make the regular 22 OR are perceived as being place holders until we get better players … where do we see these guys in 2024?

(Add anyone you think fits the bill that I forgot or left off on purpose)

Sloane - can he become a role player of worth? If not, he must play SANFL in the break glass role. Just no wiggle room with him.

Keays - would be in every other clubs best 22, will not be dislodged easily … he brings a lot to the table and even with his deficiencies is an important cog for us.

ROB - better than most realise as a ruckman, still improving?

Murphy - Stats based hate? I don’t have him on my naughty list.

Butts - on the edge because we have so many good options coming through in this area … don’t see him beating Woz or Muz for the big man role when they are available. I think he is also behind Keane now as the placeholder.

McHenry - lots of effort, lots of fumbles. My new #1 on the “No thanks” list.

Sholl - my 2nd biggest fingers crossed in the list behind Berry. Just so much upside imo.

Berg - we know what dragon is by now, right?

Berry - my great hope is that he returns to the 22 and takes the step up. Loved him in 2022.

Parnell - not sure where he fits in, like a lot of what he does - but is rightly down the order at this stage.

Cook - must play more games in 2024. Half forward or wing please.

Gollant - has to replace McAdam in the forward line. He flies for his marks, tackles hard and converts pretty well.

Borlase - back up for now. Let’s see if he keeps developing.

Nank - I think everyone loves this kid, just added him because he is on the fringe.

 

[whattagun07]

I’m still holding out some hope for the BF most loathed players to win over some of the haters.

Of those yet to make the regular 22 OR are perceived as being place holders until we get better players … where do we see these guys in 2024?

(Add anyone you think fits the bill that I forgot or left off on purpose)

Sloane - can he become a role player of worth? If not, he must play SANFL in the break glass role. Just no wiggle room with him.

Keays - would be in every other clubs best 22, will not be dislodged easily … he brings a lot to the table and even with his deficiencies is an important cog for us.

ROB - better than most realise as a ruckman, still improving?

Murphy - Stats based hate? I don’t have him on my naughty list.

Butts - on the edge because we have so many good options coming through in this area … don’t see him beating Woz or Muz for the big man role when they are available. I think he is also behind Keane now as the placeholder.

McHenry - lots of effort, lots of fumbles. My new #1 on the “No thanks” list.

Sholl - my 2nd biggest fingers crossed in the list behind Berry. Just so much upside imo.

Berg - we know what dragon is by now, right?

Berry - my great hope is that he returns to the 22 and takes the step up. Loved him in 2022.

Parnell - not sure where he fits in, like a lot of what he does - but is rightly down the order at this stage.

Cook - must play more games in 2024. Half forward or wing please.

Gollant - has to replace McAdam in the forward line. He flies for his marks, tackles hard and converts pretty well.

Borlase - back up for now. Let’s see if he keeps developing.

Nank - I think everyone loves this kid, just added him because he is on the fringe.

I want them all to succeed. In general though, my whipping boys are ROB and Berg, but I also expect a lot from Milera, and he generally fails to deliver consistently. He had a pretty good end to the year, and has had his injury troubles, so I'm hoping he's arrived as a consistent player.

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Keays is in our best dozen players. If his field kicking was better he’d be pushing top 5.

His gut running is reminiscent of peak Sloane.

I’ve been watching a few replays. Sloane was very good in the first half of last season but fell off a cliff. Was it the end for him or poor fatigue management?!?!?

 

[Eagleboy2011]

I’m still holding out some hope for the BF most loathed players to win over some of the haters.

Of those yet to make the regular 22 OR are perceived as being place holders until we get better players … where do we see these guys in 2024?

(Add anyone you think fits the bill that I forgot or left off on purpose)

Sloane - can he become a role player of worth? If not, he must play SANFL in the break glass role. Just no wiggle room with him.

Keays - would be in every other clubs best 22, will not be dislodged easily … he brings a lot to the table and even with his deficiencies is an important cog for us.

ROB - better than most realise as a ruckman, still improving?

Murphy - Stats based hate? I don’t have him on my naughty list.

Butts - on the edge because we have so many good options coming through in this area … don’t see him beating Woz or Muz for the big man role when they are available. I think he is also behind Keane now as the placeholder.

McHenry - lots of effort, lots of fumbles. My new #1 on the “No thanks” list.

Sholl - my 2nd biggest fingers crossed in the list behind Berry. Just so much upside imo.

Berg - we know what dragon is by now, right?

Berry - my great hope is that he returns to the 22 and takes the step up. Loved him in 2022.

Parnell - not sure where he fits in, like a lot of what he does - but is rightly down the order at this stage.

Cook - must play more games in 2024. Half forward or wing please.

Gollant - has to replace McAdam in the forward line. He flies for his marks, tackles hard and converts pretty well.

Borlase - back up for now. Let’s see if he keeps developing.

Nank - I think everyone loves this kid, just added him because he is on the fringe.

I actually expect 2 or maybe 3 of our new recruits to jump ahead of a few of these players. Curtin will be a starter for sure. Burgess will play more than some expect, at least until some of the long term injured come back.
Berg needs to come out swinging or his career is over.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Keays

Seems a great bloke, great team mate, great club man, gives his all, has provided the youth with protection through the rubuild..

But does anyone in here, ANYONE AT ALL, want to see Ben streaming toward the forward 50 with ball in hand with a minute to go in a Prelim whilst the crows are 1 point down?..

Tell you who would.. Powa supporters would.

Thats why we need to move on from Ben and replace him with talent before our next GF attempt.

Murphy

Shouldve stayed behind the counter in the merch shop. Just a GARBAGE footballer.

Sholl

Seriously… we let Atkins walk without a fight to the Suns for a reason..

Then we immediately replaced him like for like with another soft prick in sholl.

Himmelberg

Good depth. Thats about it.

ROB

Constantly reminds me of the late, great Shane Warne…

Can just hear Warnie’s voice saying “Cant tap, cant kick, cant mark” everytime ROB goes near it.

Sloane

Rory should never be on a “whipping boy” list.. club great and, at his peak, a bloody good player.

But Rory’s problem is, like a stale old fart that just seems to have infiltrated the fabric at the club, he shouldve removed himself and retired this year with his dignity intact.

But unfortunately Rory cares more about Rory than he does about the future of the team and good of the club.

Berry, parnell, cook, Bond, Borlase, nank, gollant

All either still too young to pass judgement on yet or simply get starved of opportunity due to being on the list of a club that has a nutjob policy of “experience and continuity” over anything else when selecting the 22 week in week out.

NEVER write the youth off until they’ve been given a solid run at it.

Although Berry needs to pull his finger out as he’s had some decent opportunities. But dont write him off just yet. Re-assess at the end of 2024.

Cue the usual Mutineer “thumbs down”..
which generally means I’m right on the money.

 

[Scorpus]

Players that aren't consistently in the 22 are hard to label as whipping boys. So players like Cook, Borlase, Gollant, Nankervis don't really qualify

To me the definition of a whipping boy is a frequently picked player whose output is mediocre, who has no further scope for improvement and whose role could be played to a similar standard right now by someone with scope for improvement.

Right now those players are Murphy, Sloane and Sholl.

ROB sucks but we have no replacement for him.

Keays I think is a fairly average player but his output is generally better than guys not getting games. Swapping him out would give us lesser output right now, which I think has merit and isn't a bad choice for development, but it's not like a Sloane situation where there are numerous options with upside that would give us just as much right away.

Himmelberg sucks but doesn't play very often and his status as a depth player is sealed. If he played more he'd be a frustrating whipping boy but the coaches don't rate him which is good and so he isn't much of a worry. Same with McHenry.

Butts isn't a whipping boy because his selection is typically justified either due to form or quality of others in the squad.

Berry is a developing player, hard to rate him as a whipping boy when he hasn't been in the system for long

 

[Sir Ronald Mac]

Berry is so underrated by Crows supporters. He's still a kid, potential A-Grader along with Pedlar.

 

[BRL121]

Berry is so underrated by Crows supporters. He's still a kid, potential A-Grader along with Pedlar.

I doubt he's an A-grader.
I still can't work out what was his problem last year. I haven't looked at his stats, but I reckon his tackling was down on his previous years, and he was more easily caught when trying to exit the packs.

 

[Golumless]

I’m still holding out some hope for the BF most loathed players to win over some of the haters.

Of those yet to make the regular 22 OR are perceived as being place holders until we get better players … where do we see these guys in 2024?

(Add anyone you think fits the bill that I forgot or left off on purpose)

Sloane - can he become a role player of worth? If not, he must play SANFL in the break glass role. Just no wiggle room with him.

Keays - would be in every other clubs best 22, will not be dislodged easily … he brings a lot to the table and even with his deficiencies is an important cog for us.

ROB - better than most realise as a ruckman, still improving?

Murphy - Stats based hate? I don’t have him on my naughty list.

Butts - on the edge because we have so many good options coming through in this area … don’t see him beating Woz or Muz for the big man role when they are available. I think he is also behind Keane now as the placeholder.

McHenry - lots of effort, lots of fumbles. My new #1 on the “No thanks” list.

Sholl - my 2nd biggest fingers crossed in the list behind Berry. Just so much upside imo.

Berg - we know what dragon is by now, right?

Berry - my great hope is that he returns to the 22 and takes the step up. Loved him in 2022.

Parnell - not sure where he fits in, like a lot of what he does - but is rightly down the order at this stage.

Cook - must play more games in 2024. Half forward or wing please.

Gollant - has to replace McAdam in the forward line. He flies for his marks, tackles hard and converts pretty well.

Borlase - back up for now. Let’s see if he keeps developing.

Nank - I think everyone loves this kid, just added him because he is on the fringe.

It's a bit rough to consider some of these players loathed or even whipping boys. Really, you've got to be best 22 to be eligible.

Keays is never going to be a liked player - after all, people don't really give a flying * about effort and overvalue skills - but if this guy is your 5-6th forward, you're a very strong position moving forwards. The Keays there is to make sure there is always a good amount of talent ahead of Ben but he's likely a walk up starter for the next 5 years seeing the lad knows how to accumulate/run and generally be a pest in a difficult role. Well, unless we hit on the second coming of Charlie Cameron in the draft.

Sloane? Too many moments last year where it looked like he's lost his reaction time. I think he's done, but I wouldn't be surprised if we're not willing to admit it is over just yet. Shocking management from the club.

ROB is an ok ruckman and not much more. I wouldn't say he's still improving, but ROB a guy who can do a job at an ok level. I think his 2024 is going to depend on where we see Thilthorpe moving forward and if we see Thilthorpe as a ruck, it's time to make him a starter. Otherwise, we're stuck with ROB and I'd be throwing wads at cash at rucks to get an upgrade at seasons end to try to up our midfield power.

Murphy? Hard to say really. I think he's got through the year that was most likely to end his career with flying colours, however he's always in danger due to the role he plays is not one that supports long-term consistency. He's also in danger as his position does depend on Adelaide being an offensive juggernaut just to prevent us valuing goal kicking power in a bottom forward as he's really someone where you're sacrificing the position to help the outside game - right now, it's a good trade off however, it doesn't take much for it to be unviable. I think he gets through 2024 as a best 22 member but this one might depend on our three headed monster in Tex, Fog and Rankine more so than anything Murphy does or does not do.

Butts is probably quietly thankful Murray did his ACL as it does give him a bit more time before he's on the hot-seat. 2024 is a very big year for him and Jordon could easily be in a dire spot coming into 2025 if he can't find that uptick in production. After all, Keane and Worrell both did very well in 2023 and third tall is a pretty natural spot to start Curtin off.

Neddy Betts, Berg, Parnell and Sholl all look to be heading towards the delist pile. All had their moments at the pro level but it looks like they've lost out to other players and with kids coming through, so the likelihood is they'll get flicked at years end. It's kind of hard to see us looking at these players unless we get smashed with injuries. I'm not particularly impressed with Adelaide's insistence to retain Berg this offseason due to this.

Berry and Cook both have a big year ahead of them. They need to be a locked in best 22 member by the end of the year else we should be looking to move on. I think both have a reasonable shot at doing so, seeing the McAdam spot has opened up for Cook as a forward or wing, and my read on Nicks and Matt Crouch is Nicks will look for any reason to flick Matty back to the SANFL if he's not preforming at a lights out pace.

Gollant and Burgess are in the same situation as Berry and Cook, except I don't think they have a shot - let alone a reasonable one - of doing so. The big problem for both is their one wood is a tall forward and Adelaides tall forwards stocks are well and truly stacked coming into 2024 with Tex/Fog and Thilthorpe. Their situation gets easier if we see Thilthorpe as a ruck. Burgess could also get time doubling as a KPD but I'm not holding my breathe there that it's a direction he could end up a best 22 member in.

Nankervis, Dowling and Taylor if we're including them look promising but do need to take that next step and get a best 22 spot. I wouldn't want to be any of them if they're on the outer come 2025.

Borlase also is thanking his lucky stars Murray did an ACL as it's likely the only reason he's an AFL footballer in 2024. Likely the first one we delist at the end of the year. Did well when required though.

 

[Jcpdragonx]

It is very frustrating watching Sloane take mid time from the kids, and Murphy doesn't kick enough goals as a forward. Other than that no real frustrations. Not expecting Sholl, Butts or McHenry to be in the side long term.

 

[Sir Ronald Mac]

I doubt he's an A-grader.
I still can't work out what was his problem last year. I haven't looked at his stats, but I reckon his tackling was down on his previous years, and he was more easily caught when trying to exit the packs.

Same age as Thilthorpe, Pedlar, Cook.
They're kids

 

[cleanhands]

It's a bit rough to consider some of these players loathed or even whipping boys. Really, you've got to be best 22 to be eligible.

Keays is never going to be a liked player - after all, people don't really give a flying * about effort and overvalue skills - but if this guy is your 5-6th forward, you're a very strong position moving forwards. The Keays there is to make sure there is always a good amount of talent ahead of Ben but he's likely a walk up starter for the next 5 years seeing the lad knows how to accumulate/run and generally be a pest in a difficult role. Well, unless we hit on the second coming of Charlie Cameron in the draft.

Sloane? Too many moments last year where it looked like he's lost his reaction time. I think he's done, but I wouldn't be surprised if we're not willing to admit it is over just yet. Shocking management from the club.

ROB is an ok ruckman and not much more. I wouldn't say he's still improving, but ROB a guy who can do a job at an ok level. I think his 2024 is going to depend on where we see Thilthorpe moving forward and if we see Thilthorpe as a ruck, it's time to make him a starter. Otherwise, we're stuck with ROB and I'd be throwing wads at cash at rucks to get an upgrade at seasons end to try to up our midfield power.

Murphy? Hard to say really. I think he's got through the year that was most likely to end his career with flying colours, however he's always in danger due to the role he plays is not one that supports long-term consistency. He's also in danger as his position does depend on Adelaide being an offensive juggernaut just to prevent us valuing goal kicking power in a bottom forward as he's really someone where you're sacrificing the position to help the outside game - right now, it's a good trade off however, it doesn't take much for it to be unviable. I think he gets through 2024 as a best 22 member but this one might depend on our three headed monster in Tex, Fog and Rankine more so than anything Murphy does or does not do.

Butts is probably quietly thankful Murray did his ACL as it does give him a bit more time before he's on the hot-seat. 2024 is a very big year for him and Jordon could easily be in a dire spot coming into 2025 if he can't find that uptick in production. After all, Keane and Worrell both did very well in 2023 and third tall is a pretty natural spot to start Curtin off.

Neddy Betts, Berg, Parnell and Sholl all look to be heading towards the delist pile. All had their moments at the pro level but it looks like they've lost out to other players and with kids coming through, so the likelihood is they'll get flicked at years end. It's kind of hard to see us looking at these players unless we get smashed with injuries. I'm not particularly impressed with Adelaide's insistence to retain Berg this offseason due to this.

Berry and Cook both have a big year ahead of them. They need to be a locked in best 22 member by the end of the year else we should be looking to move on. I think both have a reasonable shot at doing so, seeing the McAdam spot has opened up for Cook as a forward or wing, and my read on Nicks and Matt Crouch is Nicks will look for any reason to flick Matty back to the SANFL if he's not preforming at a lights out pace.

Gollant and Burgess are in the same situation as Berry and Cook, except I don't think they have a shot - let alone a reasonable one - of doing so. The big problem for both is their one wood is a tall forward and Adelaides tall forwards stocks are well and truly stacked coming into 2024 with Tex/Fog and Thilthorpe. Their situation gets easier if we see Thilthorpe as a ruck. Burgess could also get time doubling as a KPD but I'm not holding my breathe there that it's a direction he could end up a best 22 member in.

Nankervis, Dowling and Taylor if we're including them look promising but do need to take that next step and get a best 22 spot. I wouldn't want to be any of them if they're on the outer come 2025.

Borlase also is thanking his lucky stars Murray did an ACL as it's likely the only reason he's an AFL footballer in 2024. Likely the first one we delist at the end of the year. Did well when required though.

Did I read that right ………… over value skills

 

[Golumless]

Did I read that right ………… over value skills

Yup. Skills are really important but they are not the be all and end all. They are treated as the be all and end all.

Really, no team in the league gives a s**t if a player is a hit and miss kick if they're going to reliably go in hard and produce at a good level without too many fumbles. They'll just eventually find them a role where they can hide those kicking skills if they're not producing at a top line midfielder level (i.e. mid-to-bottom rotation forward or lock down defender).

 

[Jeffcrowe]

I want them all to succeed. In general though, my whipping boys are ROB and Berg, but I also expect a lot from Milera, and he generally fails to deliver consistently. He had a pretty good end to the year, and has had his injury troubles, so I'm hoping he's arrived as a consistent player.

I reckon milera is a bit of an AA smoky next year if he can catapult off that last half of season and stay injury free

 

[cleanhands]

Yup. Skills are really important but they are not the be all and end all. They are treated as the be all and end all.

Really, no team in the league gives a s**t if a player is a hit and miss kick if they're going to reliably go in hard and produce at a good level without too many fumbles. They'll just eventually find them a role where they can hide those kicking skills if they're not producing at a top line midfielder level (i.e. mid-to-bottom rotation forward or lock down defender).

Yeh they’ll eventually be overtaken by someone with the same input with better skills

 

[CrowToon]

Butts and Berry are victims of their first exposed seasons being pretty damn good (Schoey also suffered this). We forget quickly how green they are.

Sloane I just think is now taking up a spot of another player who may well be in our next flag tilt. He's okay on his day still but it's that opportunity cost that irks me.

Murphy I have no issue with.

Keays I just don't see a future with except possibly as a pressure forward once we have some of our players kick on. He hasn't been a bad player for us (and value for money he is top bins) but he is just so...unsilky. Stands out in a team like ours which is developing some class. But hey, those games he bobs up with 3 goals, keep them coming.

Murphy I don't have a huge issue with.

Nothing wrong with ROB other than, I reckon, the fact he looks like a slow lumbering bloke with a weird kicking style. Oh and he has a bloody good knack for finding the oppos best midfielder with a tap. But I reckon some of the hate is due to aesthetics because he is a decent mover old ROB.

McHenry is one of those players who will annoy the fk out of friend and foe alike. No issue with him as a player, he can be handy as a sub but he will always be harrassed due to him costing a first rounder (not his fault).

Berg - Enough with the annual 'I wonder if he will make it' string of selections. He won't, at least not for us.

My best 22 whipping boy will be Keays. My fringes will be Sholl and Berg.

With that being said I whinged Hinge into decent form so maybe there is hope for the above yet.

 

[Golumless]

Yeh they’ll eventually be overtaken by someone with the same input with better skills

Sure, if they exist. Typically, they don't - especially once you get towards a high level production in a role. After all, 3-4 more touches and 0.5 clearances is worth more than a good kick.

 

[1970crow]

Berry is so underrated by Crows supporters. He's still a kid, potential A-Grader along with Pedlar.

no way Berry has the same high end as Pedlar. Always looked like he'd max out as a reliable B grader.

 

[cleanhands]

Sure, if they exist. Typically, they don't - especially once you get towards a high level production in a role. After all, 3-4 more touches and 0.5 clearances is worth more than a good kick.

Not if they are not hitting targets

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

I doubt he's an A-grader.
I still can't work out what was his problem last year. I haven't looked at his stats, but I reckon his tackling was down on his previous years, and he was more easily caught when trying to exit the packs.

Berry got injured preseason & never seemed to get his season back on track.

Apparently taken a different approach this preseason & looks sharper.

Can be a solid player for us, but agree won't be an A grader like Pedlar has the potential to be.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Yup. Skills are really important but they are not the be all and end all. They are treated as the be all and end all.

Really, no team in the league gives a s**t if a player is a hit and miss kick if they're going to reliably go in hard and produce at a good level without too many fumbles. They'll just eventually find them a role where they can hide those kicking skills if they're not producing at a top line midfielder level (i.e. mid-to-bottom rotation forward or lock down defender).

Biggest improvement from the Crows last season was our skill level which enabled better ball movement & less turnovers... which is critical to be successful.

 

[CrowinNT]

Same age as Thilthorpe, Pedlar, Cook.
They're kids

Agree have to have faith in our young lads good post

 

[Sir Ronald Mac]

no way Berry has the same high end as Pedlar. Always looked like he'd max out as a reliable B grader.

Next couple of years will show.

 

[Sir Ronald Mac]

Agree have to have faith in our young lads good post

Faith is important.

And lots of patience.

 

[Danger in Texas]

A few thoughts here:

ROB - would probably be the main whipping boy if we had a 3rd to 5th year ruck on our list, ready to go and make an impact. His impact only really comes from contested marking around the ground, which at this point is pretty inconsistent from game to game (great at best, non-existent at worst). The games where he has no marking impact usually means we play basically a man down, and we get a pretty dire net negative performance. He’ll do for now, especially as we’ve seen some great sides with average rucks, but we probably have to outsource a (hopefully) better ruck pretty soon

Murphy - probably in the best 22 going into round 1, and I don’t have a problem with it (unless Cook as a forward target has a blinder of a PS), but he’s pretty ‘meh’. Neat, good at stoppages, and knows how to get involved in scoring chains, but he’s not an extreme pressure type, a speedy/agile player, a huge gut runner, a top line accumulator, or a goalkicker. You can win with him in the 22, but if it’s a choice between him and a genuine medium forward marking target (a void that I think needs to be filled in the 22 sooner rather than later), I’m taking the latter

Keays - obviously shouldn’t be anywhere near the midfield now, but has a genuine spot in the 22 going forward, given he has a few standout abilities for his position (finds the goals, great pressure player and gut runner). If it’s a choice between Murphy and Keays, it’s Keays IMO

Sloane - just a sad situation, hopefully Nicks comes to his senses and does a Jonas with him

Butts - based on what I’ve seen here, Keane’s ceiling is quite a bit higher. As stated earlier, the first half of 2024 will be huge for Jordy, given Murray’s absence. If Keane shows more over that period, he could (and should) be relegated to a depth player pretty quickly (and that’s without even mentioning Curtin)

Ned/Sholl/Berg/Parnell/Borlase - ehh, reckon all of these guys are more unlikely to be on the list in ‘25 than likely, basically depth players that seem to have maxed out at AFL levels. Still have a season to show something, though

Berry/Gollant - the wildcards. Could really stamp their mark next year, could regress, or could knock down the door in the SANFL to no avail and ask for a trade. Could go any number of ways