Time To Reduce 18 to 16?

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Jan 14, 2002
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I acknowledge how hard it is for many footy supporters to embrace change - I'm often one of them - and new rules generally receive the same reception here as the onset of a particularly nasty sexually transmitted disease. However, I've felt for some time (I may even have posted on it at some stage in the past) that we seriously need to consider a reduction of onfield playing personnel from 18 players to 16 per team. It seems that in the next couple of years the timing for such a move would be perfect.

Firstly, watching the Saints-Swans game from Saturday night (don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the tenacity and tenseness of the match) reiterated my thoughts on this matter - two less players per team means four less players choking up forward-50s. This reduction in clutter might go some way to overcoming the uber-floods imposed by both of these teams (and others). The most effective way of doing this on the teamsheets is to simply remove the "wings", VFA style.

Secondly, the use of 18 players per team goes back to an era where players did not have the same level of fitness, stamina and ground speed to get to parts of the arena as often or as quickly as they are now capable. In addition to this, ground surfaces are in far better condition to fifty years ago and enhance this free movement around the ground. Move with the times - players are now far more than 11 (two-eighteenths) percent quicker and capable of "staying" than they were in the deep past, so maybe we need 11 per cent less players on the playing surface.

Thirdly, we would need to consider whther such a change would result in a reduction of a teams overall playing lists from 38 to 36 (plus vets) or not. In the former case, it would mean that the salary cap goes further, whereas the latter case would free up an extra two players on for club depth. Either way, it's beneficial.

Finally, the imminent expansion of AFL clubs from 16 to 18 is the perfect time to reduce playing personnel from 18 to 16, thus preventing any dilution of the talent pool available for any given weekend of football. i.e. there will still only be the best 18X16=288 players involved onfield (plus four interchange per team, of course) in the elite competition each round of footy, and hence we will not need to find an extra 36 players capable of matching it.

This alteration to the current format for player line-ups does not seek to change the game for change sake, just address the contemporary game. It seeks to take care of a few of the issues that we might have with the way the game is and will be played, without actually changing any onfield rules per se.
 
I think team lists are too short, most clubs are now dedicating more and more space to development and need to have 20 or more players that I would consider not fit to be playing senior football. It is also the reason why good depth players are not being retained and let go to make room for another development player.
 
You have to look at how coaches will use more space.
IMO it will mean slower ball movement and more short kicking/uncontested play.
Call me old-fashioned but I like hard contested games, even if they are low scoring.
 

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I actually think this should be trialled. It would have to slow the game down, would cause less congestion.

There are always negatives (fatigue, injuries, etc), but worth a go. NAB cup I say :)
 
In some ways I like the idea, it could free up more space, etc. But would it also mean favouring, even further, the use of "athletes" over "footballers"?
The running game would become even more important than it is now, and the game could get too open (on the larger grounds such as Subiaco; at the SCG or Docklands it wouldn't be an issue).

In some respects I'm with Port01 here. There's nothing wrong with low scoring games, quite often they have more contested footy, the goals mean more when they come, and the game is often tighter than a high scoring side where a slight advantage in play can force a blowout on the scoreboard. So long as teams are trying to movethe ball forward, I don't mind if pressure is applied and as a result of that they have trouble actually doing so.
 
I posted a near identical thread a few months back.

It should be trialed. Some games are just so conjested as to be unwatchable.

Or just get rid of the toy sized grounds like the Dome & SCG.
 
id like to see swans leave the scg purely from a ground size point of view. It cannot help to play on that ground so often.

16 a side would be worthwhile to trial in the nab cup to start with is a better idea than limited interchange or 9 point goals and the other rubbish they try. :thumbsu:
 
I'm all for it, in fact I'd also reduce the team size by 2 as well back to 20. 16 onfield with 4 on the interchange bench.

Either that or just make it a 20 man team with 2 on the reserve bench just like the old days, once you come off, you can't go back on again.

The game is becoming too stereotyped and predictable with the flooding etc. If there were some subtle variations in a 50over one-day cricket match, 20/20would never have been created.
 
Teams like Geelong and Hawthorn can still manage to kick 20+ goals week in, week out, so the rule shouldn't be changed. Just because Sydney play unattractive football doesn't mean we should change rules.
 
No, I don't think it's time at all. The St Kilda - Sydney match wasn't all that high scoring, but it's not entirely representative of how each club plays week in, week out. It just seems like whenever these two teams play eachother, it's a catalyst for a low scoring, defensive, hard fought match. Personally, I found the match to be quite exciting, especially towards the end, when every goal counted for so much.

What you're forgetting is that there have been 6 other matches played this week, and the Bulldogs-Crows match stands out as a game which was high scoring, attacking and generally exciting to watch. If we still get matches like this played, then I think footy's in pretty good shape. The other matches this round have also generally been high scoring and interesting to watch.

I might have agreed with your idea a few years ago when it seemed like flooding and defense was the only way to win a match, but last year Geelong really turned that theory upside down and played a brand of footy which was attacking, yet still relied on good defensive strategies. With that in mind, I think more teams will adopt a "Geelong-style" gameplan which will result in higher scoring matches and quicker ball movement.
 
I guess a lot of people have had similar thoughts for some time now, especially as a way of combatting flooding. Perhaps reducing teams to 17 players during NAB cup games to see what impact that has (remove 1 midfielder, starting with 3 in the square). It would certainly remove congestion and bring the good ruck/roving combinations back into the game. It may make centre clearance too easy though but you'd have to trial it to see what happens. The downside is promoting the athletes v the footballers, especially on the larger grounds like Subi and AAMI. And as swansrule100 says - the SCG is ridiculously small for the modern game.

I wouldn't like to see the teamlists reduced as I believe they're too short now. There has been times when clubs have been forced to field players who aren't fit simply because there's nobody left on the list. It would be very embarrasing for the AFL let alone any club that couldn't get 22 players on the park one day.
 
no, there is no need for it.... no matter what happens, people will not be happy with the game. Get over trying to change it, leave it as is....

All that would happen by reducing the game to 16 players, whould be allowing teams like stkilda and sydney more space to chip the ball around.
 
no, there is no need for it.... no matter what happens, people will not be happy with the game. Get over trying to change it, leave it as is....

All that would happen by reducing the game to 16 players, whould be allowing teams like stkilda and sydney more space to chip the ball around.

Agreed.

Look at the Geelong v Port, Dogs v Crows, Hawthorn and even Collingwood. Lots of high scores and free flowing football.

The game doesn't need to change, the way a couple of teams play it need to change.
 

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From an elite AFL point of view, No, because that scrappy, strangling, dull style of play is the result of the games plan of the Swans (they are the worst team to watch, because they play a style of game that's neither interesting or entertaining), and not because of having 18 on the field, and as Geelong proved last year, if you move the ball quickly, no flood in the world can contain you.

But, from a rural viewpoint, I wholeheartedly agree with removing the wingmen and playing 16 a side because of the availability of players (especially in the Mallee, Sunraysia and the Wimmera, where this is quite profound), and helping clubs stay alive as seperate entities instead of merged ones, and I hope that the VCFL (and other similar bodies in Country Football) does this for all district leagues in the coming years (and keeping the bigger league like the Goulburn Valley FL, 18 a side).

I know that this is mainly about the AFL, but from my viewpoint, I can see that 16 a side as merit from a player viewpoint (less spots to fill) and from a viewer viewpoint (faster games, and less scrappy, congested contests).
 
They should go back to 20 players a side.

Congestion = chaos.
Chaos = fun.

Those games that finish in the double-digits for both teams rarely fail to excite.
 
16 a side didn’t make the VFA a better competition. 16 a side will open some space and make it a bit harder to flood but it will also make rotations even more vital and reduce the scope for big guys to occupy bench spots. It will increase the focus on athletic talls and reduce the scope for the big strong marking forwards. We need to stop over reacting to a 6 goal a side game and enjoy the fact that we have numerous forwards kick 5 and 6 goals on weekend. On a similar note, I’d reduce the bench to reduce rotations rather then play with caps. Less fresh legs will reduce flooding and that is best done by reducing the numbers on the bench to rotate. Maybe have an emergency as an injury replacement who can’t then leave the ground and be replaced unless himself injured and therefore unable to return.
 
16 a side didn’t make the VFA a better competition. 16 a side will open some space and make it a bit harder to flood but it will also make rotations even more vital and reduce the scope for big guys to occupy bench spots. It will increase the focus on athletic talls and reduce the scope for the big strong marking forwards. We need to stop over reacting to a 6 goal a side game and enjoy the fact that we have numerous forwards kick 5 and 6 goals on weekend. On a similar note, I’d reduce the bench to reduce rotations rather then play with caps. Less fresh legs will reduce flooding and that is best done by reducing the numbers on the bench to rotate. Maybe have an emergency as an injury replacement who can’t then leave the ground and be replaced unless himself injured and therefore unable to return.

With expanded rookie lists, what about the idea of having a rookie listed player available as an emergency only. ie If they go on for a player then that player can't return at all. That way if someone is seriously injured there is no need to risk their health by returing them early.
 
I don't think flooding really is a problem anymore. The reason I find footy is so difficult to watch is because of the uncontested style of the game - it may be because being a Dogs supporter I see a lot of it, but too often do you see three or four players unmarked when teams rebound.

Reducing the number of players per side can only make the game even more uncontested in my opinion - I don't think its the right idea.
 
Secondly, the use of 18 players per team goes back to an era where players did not have the same level of fitness, stamina and ground speed to get to parts of the arena as often or as quickly as they are now capable. In addition to this, ground surfaces are in far better condition to fifty years ago and enhance this free movement around the ground. Move with the times - players are now far more than 11 (two-eighteenths) percent quicker and capable of "staying" than they were in the deep past, so maybe we need 11 per cent less players on the playing surface.
It was one of the major differences between VFL and VFA decades ago now. The VFA eliminated wingers to open up the game more - a similar problem to the one AFL faces now. Not a bad suggestion. You could even leave the squad at 22 and only allow 16 on the ground.

I'd like to see this trialled.
 
See, THIS is the kind of rule shift that the NAB Cup should be used to trial.

Given that the NAB Cup is a wank that means nothing in regards to how the season is going to pan out anyway, wouldn't it make sense to use it to trial radical rules that might actually improve the game?

Of course, given that the AFL and the media seem to be on a vendetta to eliminate the interchange from the game of football, it's hard to see them going in a direction that would necessitate more interchanges, and possibly more men on the bench. Personally, I'd say that you'd probably have to go with 6 on the bench at least if you were going to go in this direction, because midfielders would have to rotate much more often to compensate for the amount of ground they're covering.

Of course, I'm obviously in the tiny minority that doesn't think that there's anything WRONG with the game, and that it's still an entertaining spectacle that doesn't need changing.

I do see how that makes me a crazy person though.
 
I acknowledge how hard it is for many footy supporters to embrace change - I'm often one of them - and new rules generally receive the same reception here as the onset of a particularly nasty sexually transmitted disease. However, I've felt for some time (I may even have posted on it at some stage in the past) that we seriously need to consider a reduction of onfield playing personnel from 18 players to 16 per team. It seems that in the next couple of years the timing for such a move would be perfect.

Firstly, watching the Saints-Swans game from Saturday night (don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the tenacity and tenseness of the match) reiterated my thoughts on this matter - two less players per team means four less players choking up forward-50s. This reduction in clutter might go some way to overcoming the uber-floods imposed by both of these teams (and others). The most effective way of doing this on the teamsheets is to simply remove the "wings", VFA style.

Secondly, the use of 18 players per team goes back to an era where players did not have the same level of fitness, stamina and ground speed to get to parts of the arena as often or as quickly as they are now capable. In addition to this, ground surfaces are in far better condition to fifty years ago and enhance this free movement around the ground. Move with the times - players are now far more than 11 (two-eighteenths) percent quicker and capable of "staying" than they were in the deep past, so maybe we need 11 per cent less players on the playing surface.

Thirdly, we would need to consider whther such a change would result in a reduction of a teams overall playing lists from 38 to 36 (plus vets) or not. In the former case, it would mean that the salary cap goes further, whereas the latter case would free up an extra two players on for club depth. Either way, it's beneficial.

Finally, the imminent expansion of AFL clubs from 16 to 18 is the perfect time to reduce playing personnel from 18 to 16, thus preventing any dilution of the talent pool available for any given weekend of football. i.e. there will still only be the best 18X16=288 players involved onfield (plus four interchange per team, of course) in the elite competition each round of footy, and hence we will not need to find an extra 36 players capable of matching it.

This alteration to the current format for player line-ups does not seek to change the game for change sake, just address the contemporary game. It seeks to take care of a few of the issues that we might have with the way the game is and will be played, without actually changing any onfield rules per se.

Stop with this rubbish and trying to change our game.
 
How about we leave the game alone.

We should bring in a rule that we arent allowed to change the rules anymore, to suit individual's idea's of what a game of AFL should look like.
 

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