Watters Sacked

[plough]

So what's the difference between "sacking" and not choosing to extend a contract that has expired?

.

Appproximately one year

 

[Dan Cooper]

I was told 3 weeks ago the saints approached Williams and he rejected the offer (take it for what it is, rumour).
The guys I think you should short list are (in no particular order):
Tudor
Simpson
Richardson
Ratten
Voss.
Out of that list, I'd go Ratten. Blues shafted him, and he'll be a better coach second time around.

Could do worse than Ratten. Second time around - and after a season under Clarkson at Hawthorn that culminated in a premiership - he may well be a good fit at St Kilda.

 

[Monika72]

does anyone know if the structure of the academy still going ahead with all the cuts? or is it being changed?

I can tell you one way of saving money, don't go to the USA for training. Geelong do there training at Ocean Grove and they go ok. nothing more then a Junkit. The club can save around $200,000

 

[saintsrfreak]

I can tell you one way of saving money, don't go to the USA for training. Geelong do there training at Ocean Grove and they go ok. nothing more then a Junkit. The club can save around $200,000

Well they do have those free plane tickets from the Virgin video competition, might as well use them (I'm not convinced high altitude training is all it's built up to be though)

 

[LuigiVampa]

I have very mixed feelings about the whole thing.

I think the board's press conference yesterday was less than inspiring, in fact, regardless of the reason for his sacking, they did a horrible job of selling it to the members, sponsors and fans. It was a bit humiliating to be perfectly honest.

I always quite liked Watters, at least the personality I saw on TV, in the media and so forth. He seemed to have a reasonable footy brain on him and he was much better in front of the cameras than Ross. That said, it doesn't necessarily make him a good coach, but the fact he was media-friendly did a lot for our image and I like that he was pretty upfront.

In the last 24 hours, some pretty scathing articles have been written by Wilson and Robinson, painting Watters as this Kevin Rudd-type egomaniac who plays by his own rules. They were quite disheartening to read, and if accurate, it certainly seems like there was a lot of nastiness going on behind the scenes and for that, the board are justified in sacking him.

But I still think yesterday could have been handled much better. We looked amateur, lost for words and like we were making it up as we go (and the media have also made those same comments). Rather than coming out and saying "this is what St Kilda is about and this is where we are going," we are now getting these piecemeal anecdotes from the media vultures. In addition, the rumour-mill is in overdrive.

Just some of the rumours posted on Bigfooty and FB etc

1. Roo requested a trade to Collingwood because of Watters
2. Dal left because of Watters
3. Watters sent an abusive text to Roo while he was in the US
4. One player loves Watters and is completely shocked he is gone and disagrees with the 'poor morale' assessment

It can be hard to separate the rumour from the facts, but I think this is the problem when the club refuse to provide answers. Personally, I don't see how rumour and innuendo do anything for the St Kilda brand. I'm not saying the board had to come out and criticise Watters, or make him a scapegoat or air the dirty laundry. But I have been pressed to find anyone who is satisfied with the way the presser was handled, be it from a media standpoint or from a member's. It's one thing to say you are making a 'strong' decision, but if no one knows why, then what is the point of suggesting it? I personally felt a bit embarrassed by what transpired after 330 yesterday and I think the members, sponsors and fans deserved a little better. I imagine the reason for not saying much was out of respect for Scott, and that's fine. But I think in the end it just made them look foolish. I am sure there would be a way to to keep the details confidential, but still offer a concise, detailed presser that gave encouragement to the fans and sponsors, rather than the vague corporate-speak we got yesterday.

 

[sauce_head]

God the claims of Watters not acknowledging the players "achievements" annoys me. They achieved absolutely nothing. Zip, zero, nada. Plenty of teams make the top 4, we accomplished pretty much the same as the Bulldogs and I don't hear them celebrating that era.

This is the difference between us and clubs like Geelong and Hawthorn. They've won a flag which most would be content with but every year they seem to get hungrier for more. They have things to celebrate, we are delusional.

Are you serious? It was said they were bemused by Watters saying not to accept mediocracy. I don't think we accepted that in 09 or 10. And I certainly think a lot was achieved, especially in 09.

 

[Persevering Saint]

God the claims of Watters not acknowledging the players "achievements" annoys me. They achieved absolutely nothing. Zip, zero, nada. Plenty of teams make the top 4, we accomplished pretty much the same as the Bulldogs and I don't hear them celebrating that era.

This is the difference between us and clubs like Geelong and Hawthorn. They've won a flag which most would be content with but every year they seem to get hungrier for more. They have things to celebrate, we are delusional.

That's just too black and white (not that I'm accusing you of being a Pies supporter or anything ).

They didn't win the chocolates, sure, but to accuse them of accepting mediocrity? Seems a touch much. Mediocrity is Melbourne. I reckon its a bit harsh to use the same word for Roo (multiple AA, B&F winner, etc) as you would for Jack Watts, or worse. It suggests that Lenny, Dal, Joey, Roo, have nothing of vale to contribute or teach.

My immediate response to that last sentence is "Get stuffed!". And that's pretty much what the players said.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

People don't even have to do that. Balanced discussion and specific criticism. Geez, that was expecting too much wasn't it? Anyone who has discussed this privately knows I have always been fairly ambivalent about Watters. But he was the coach, and paying out on him with generalised taunts was a slight on the club. There is no vindication in the announcement (aside from the "scoop" aspect).

Anyways, I said people could save their hate for when the people are no longer at the club. Carry on ...

Not sure how your response fits with what I said. No generalised, or specific taunts on coach here. No problem with balanced discussion, but a believer in supporting whoever the coach / president / CEO etc until such time as they are found to not be up to it, or they are removed.

Truly can't stand the divisive white ants who delight in rushing forward with bad news. And to my delight, the club have these people in their sights and will not accept them inside the tent pissing on them any more. The rubicon has been crossed.

 

[Nutsngum]

That's just too black and white (not that I'm accusing you of being a Pies supporter or anything ).

They didn't win the chocolates, sure, but to accuse them of accepting mediocrity? Seems a touch much. Mediocrity is Melbourne. I reckon its a bit harsh to use the same word for Roo (multiple AA, B&F winner, etc) as you would for Jack Watts, or worse. It suggests that Lenny, Dal, Joey, Roo, have nothing of vale to contribute or teach.

My immediate response to that last sentence is "Get stuffed!". And that's pretty much what the players said.

That doesnt suggest they having nothing of value to teach. Lenny wouldnt have been asked to stay another year if this was true. Watters tried the hard push method where nothing but success is acceptable in the long term. Unfortunatly our senior players are just a bit too precious about the past to realise that it IS ALL about the future now.

Perhaps it was too harsh a message but they are adults and adults need to deal with reality.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

I can tell you one way of saving money, don't go to the USA for training. Geelong do there training at Ocean Grove and they go ok. nothing more then a Junkit. The club can save around $200,000

They have cleverly sold tickets to attendees and as part of sponsors packages that covers most of the cost. Get the benefits of the trip and high altitude training and have the cost covered by other attendees, is good management.

 

[blktreacle]

I reckon whoever we get needs to get the bubble back

 

[saintsrfreak]

I reckon whoever we get needs to get the bubble back

The bubble was stupid and did nothing to help the club's public appearance

 

[Sunshine Saint]

I reckon whoever we get needs to get the bubble back

The bubble is the last thing we want. St Kilda needs to engage with their members, supporters, sponsors and the wider AFL community, not to live in some sort of Lyon mandated commune. A club doesn't grow and develop by pretending they are isolated and not connected to the wider community. Our chant should be engage, communicate and recruit, not no comment, no comment, no comment.

 

[Ian Dunross]

God the claims of Watters not acknowledging the players "achievements" annoys me. They achieved absolutely nothing. Zip, zero, nada. Plenty of teams make the top 4, we accomplished pretty much the same as the Bulldogs and I don't hear them celebrating that era.

This is the difference between us and clubs like Geelong and Hawthorn. They've won a flag which most would be content with but every year they seem to get hungrier for more. They have things to celebrate, we are delusional.

Nope. We are the bounce of a ball away from me being a premiership team and two bounces away from being back to back premiers.

Playing out of the worst facilities in the AFL during this time and having no player development to speak of.

We were all but Premiers. That's something to be proud of and build on not to denigrate.

 

[lethalsaints]

They better have a good replacement. This sets us back now. It takes time to learn a "new: gameplan again

 

[aussierulesrules]

They better have a good replacement. This sets us back now. It takes time to learn a "new: gameplan again

Adelaide and Port Adelaide have shown in the past two seasons that you can learn it very quickly indeed if it's well taught and everyone buys in quickly enough. We're also not in any huge hurry, not expecting to be playing finals again for a few years.

 

[lethalsaints]

Adelaide and Port Adelaide have shown in the past two seasons that you can learn it very quickly indeed if it's well taught and everyone buys in quickly enough. We're also not in any huge hurry, not expecting to be playing finals again for a few years.

We need someone who came from Geelong IMO. That game plan seems to hold up, no matter what new "press" develops. Hinkley has taken that to Port.

 

[Fred]

They better have a good replacement. This sets us back now. It takes time to learn a "new: gameplan again

One day, a coach will come in, assess the attributes of the players available and build a gameplan that suits. The idea that coaches come in with a preconceived gameplan seems wrong to me.

 

[Ian Dunross]

The comment about Watters thinking of himself as a Euro soccer style manager wooing players has to be regarded as a huge coup for the club. Longer and Bruce should set us up for a decade IMO.

 

[stkildathunda]

One day, a coach will come in, assess the attributes of the players available and build a gameplan that suits. The idea that coaches come in with a preconceived gameplan seems wrong to me.

The good thing is the new coach will have entire preseason to get gameplan ready for start 2014. Much better then coming in after 4-5 rounds or midway through season.

 

[Grav]

In the last 24 hours, some pretty scathing articles have been written by Wilson and Robinson, painting Watters as this Kevin Rudd-type egomaniac who plays by his own rules.

Hope Julia Gillard doesn't apply for the job then, hmmm! maybe Caroline Wilson is after it.

 

[tbarker]

Always thought you guys got the right man. But after being an assistant under the Blight era Kenny was never gonna get the Saints job.
Thanks for a decent post without acting like a knobhead troll

THIS
Many forget about that.

 

[aussierulesrules]

One day, a coach will come in, assess the attributes of the players available and build a gameplan that suits. The idea that coaches come in with a preconceived gameplan seems wrong to me.

A significant amount of this.

This is one of the things that really shitted me about Scotty, as I've mentioned previously. He was constantly telling us about what we didn't have and how we were going to get what we wanted at the end of the year, or whatever, but how about instead of concentrating so much of your energy worrying about what you don't have and how good things will be when everything falls in your lap, you concentrate all your energy in simply finding a way to make it work with WHAT YOU'VE GOT. When life gives you lemons and all that.

This where I think Ross Lyon excelled with us. He was given some lemons (a list with very little depth and several in the 22 who were "battlers" at best) and he made some very nice lemonade with it, almost the best lemonade of all, working out a game plan that gave us every chance to make it work.

On the other hand I almost got the feeling that Scott metaphorically sat there with his arms crossed in a huff and refused to give us his best until he got everything he wanted. This week of course was the inevitable result, because if you don't give it everything you've got, with what you've got, what hope have you got of getting more? Life doesn't let that s**t fly.

It also sounds like he possibly tried to "break" everything that Ross Lyon had built and that was working so well. There were lots and lots of things that worked extremely well up until the point Lyon left (remembering how strong our finish to the 2011 season was, after making the granny the previous two years) and it sounds like the senior members of our side knew that full well, so they probably knew that we only needed a bit of tinkering, but that Scott didn't appreciate what they had going on and what they had worked so well for them and that may be why they never fully respected him, or what he was trying to sell.

Our group may not have won a premiership, but they got within a bees dick on two occasions and it took two of the best performed groups of all time to beat them, so they had obviously been doing a hell of a lot of things right and they were surely the things that needed to be built on, not pulled apart (even if just by talking it down/belittling it), which it sounds like what has happened.

 

[NarklesHelmet]

God the claims of Watters not acknowledging the players "achievements" annoys me. They achieved absolutely nothing. Zip, zero, nada. Plenty of teams make the top 4, we accomplished pretty much the same as the Bulldogs and I don't hear them celebrating that era.

This is the difference between us and clubs like Geelong and Hawthorn. They've won a flag which most would be content with but every year they seem to get hungrier for more. They have things to celebrate, we are delusional.

While I don't disagree with the thrust of what you're saying, from what I read (and I am on the other side of the planet so can only go on that ) it seems it was more that Watters disregarded, played down or trashed the era before him. Which when you think about it is really, really stupid as the playing group knew what it took to get remarkably close to the holy grail. Why would you not use their experience, tweak it, and get the best out of them and the team in the process?

I don't for a second think that Watters should have come in fawning over their achievements as, like you pointed out, close or not they didn't win anything. But as a coach and man motivator you also have to operate smartly and get the best out of the players you have to work with. Winning the Grand Final or not (as was the case with ours) there is still a lot to learn from the players who almost got us there that they can teach to the younger ones coming through and getting them offside by not having the people skills to handle a coaching transition is a failure on the behalf of the coach in my opinion.

 

[aussierulesrules]

A whole lot of that, Narkles.