Your views on omnipresent issues...

[Dry Rot]

Re: Re: Your views on omnipresent issues...

Originally posted by Bomber Spirit
Legality of marijuana - Legalise it and you take away its main attraction. The risk of that is that it could encourage people who want to experiment to go into harder and more addictive drugs.

Um, have you ever taken any illegal drugs? Good ones? Properly?

Believe it or not, the main attraction of any decent illegal drugs is their effect, not their illegality.

I don't get high parking illegally, or hallucinate when I shoplift (I actually don't shoplift) or get a rush if I fiddle my taxes.

On the other hand, you're absolutley right that the illegality of grass HAS prevented "encouraging people who want to experiment to go into harder and more addictive drugs" and luckily no-one in Australia takes speed, smack, GHB, acid or ecstasy.

Thank God for that.

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by EssJayW
We cross the line when name calling starts.

You mean you can't even handle being called champ?

But I believe when you start making threats that line is drawn.

Err what threats? It's pretty obvious that everything that was said (yourself included) was light-hearted.

I tried to PM you but your inbox is full.

I emptied it. Bring it on tiger.

PS maybe you should get a restraining order?

 

[Dry Rot]

Legality of marijuana

Ridiculous that it's illegal, while tobacco and booze isn't. If you don't agree, check out economic and social analyses of The Prohibition in the USA.

Effects of pokies in the community

Where do you start? Effect on the lives of those who are hooked? Destruction of the pub social scene NB music? State govts hooked?

Same-sex marital rights

For the homophobes here, try talking to a gay person who got fired when they found she was a lesbian, or discrimination with accommodation or a long term gay partner who got shafted* by super or succession etc.

* Yes, that was a pun.

The 'Sorry' campaign

Depends how you view symbolism. BB's post on this isn't bad.

Republic vs Monarchy

Anyone who still supports the Monarchy (as opposed to disagreeing as to what Republican model is best) simply needs a primer on 20th century history of how the British govt has treated us NB in WW1 & WW2.

Asylum seekers

Not an easy one.

Baseline surely is to process them ASAP, with transparent, certain and FAST procedures.

Big question (to which I have no answer) is what to tell say a legitimate asylum seeker in Bosnia that he/she can't come to Australia, because someone else had the money to get in ahead of them.

Euthanasia

If you know someone dying/dead from a terible disease/condition or familar with same, post your views (whatever they may be).

If you don't, you don't know poop from clay.

Free trade agreement with the US

3 serious concerns:

1. It's being done in secret, so we can't really comment; and

2. Similar concluded deals with the USA don't seem to be well received by the non-USA country

3. The Howard govt doesn't rate highly in the trustworthy/credibilty stakes

Censorship

Has technology overtaken this?

Aside from kiddie pr0n, let people get into what they want to.

BUT much as I hate any form of censorship, have some concerns about violent video games (but then I live in Sydney, where every second person has a handgun and is happy to use it)

 

[bunsen burner]

Re: Re: Re: Your views on omnipresent issues...

Originally posted by Dry Rot
Um, have you ever taken any illegal drugs? Good ones? Properly?

That was from the same person who thinks that there are Mr Bigs behind the beggars in our city streets. He obviously needs to start taking some drugs to get on the same wave length as everyone else.

 

[Dry Rot]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Your views on omnipresent issues...

Originally posted by bunsen burner
That was from the same person who thinks that there are Mr Bigs behind the beggars in our city streets. He obviously needs to start taking some drugs to get on the same wave length as everyone else.

Check the past posts, BB, and you'll find it wasn't me.

Sloppy.

I'll give you a clue, yes it was a Sydney based poster (I remember this lunacy) but not me. Perhaps the poster concerned goes for the Bombers (i go for the Dogs).

Look forward to your retraction & apology.

 

[Dry Rot]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Your views on omnipresent issues...

Originally posted by bunsen burner
That was from the same person who thinks that there are Mr Bigs behind the beggars in our city streets. He obviously needs to start taking some drugs to get on the same wave length as everyone else.

Originally posted by Bomber Spirit
I don't feel bad about knocking back requests from beggars. It's common knowledge that begging is nothing more than an organised scam, and most of the money collected lines the pockets of the "Mr Bigs" who put them at the spots where they beg.
I'm willing to give to charity and willing to help the poor and disadvantaged, but the aggressive spivs begging on the streets aren't them.

This may help clarify your thinking BB.

 

[bunsen burner]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Your views on omnipresent issues...

Originally posted by Dry Rot
Check the past posts, BB, and you'll find it wasn't me.

Sloppy.

I'll give you a clue, yes it was a Sydney based poster (I remember this lunacy) but not me. Perhaps the poster concerned goes for the Bombers (i go for the Dogs).

Look forward to your retraction & apology.

No apology, just a mix up. I was referring to the post that you replied to.

It was Bomber Spirit - I was just agreeing and adding on to your post.

 

[Dry Rot]

Fair enough. I don't want to be associated with BS's thoughts on this thread.

Where (roughly) in Sydney do you live? I live in Glebe, and had some strange dealings with beggars, NB 2 aboriginal ones.

Quite a story.

 

[Roylion]

- Legality of marijuana
Against, but acknowledge the point that it seems a little silly that it isn't legal given that tobacco and alcohol are.

- Effects of pokies in the community
Too many in the community, given the social ills that appear to accompany poker machines such as debt.

- Same-sex marital rights
Don't have a problem with this..

- The 'Sorry' campaign
Can't see the point really in the ruckus created by those who demand a 'sorry', but having said that saying 'sorry' is such a little thing to do.

- Republic vs Monarchy
Constitutional monarchy for me. I can't think of a better system of government. That's not to say I necessarily believe the Queen Elizabeth should be Australia's sovereign either. Until the republicans can convince me their system of government is better, I'll be voting to retain our existing system of constitutional monarchy in any referendum.

- Asylum seekers
A nation has a right to exercise sovereignity over its' borders and to regulate who enters.

- Euthanasia
In support, as long as the appropriate controls are in place to prevent abuse and that the patient has full choice on the process.

- Free trade agreement with the US
Haven't really been following the issue so can't really make a comment. Like most other issues will have its upside and downside.

- Censorship
Far too much censorship and regulation in our community today, however there are some controls that do need to be exercised especially in relation to children.

 

[bunsen burner]

Re: Re: Your views on omnipresent issues...

Originally posted by Roylion
[B

- Republic vs Monarchy
Constitutional monarchy for me. I can't think of a better system of government. That's not to say I necessarily believe the Queen Elizabeth should be Australia's sovereign either. Until the republicans can convince me their system of government is better, I'll be voting to retain our existing system of constitutional monarchy in any referendum.

[/B]

Who said anything about changing our style of govt? As far as I knew it would be almost exactly the same.

 

[otaku]

- Legality of marijuana
legalise it, then tax it. More money into the coffers for something that people do anyway.

- Effects of pokies in the community
Dont care either way - how you can be adicted to pokies is beyond me.

- Same-sex marital rights
Should have the same rights as everyone else. However, on the same point - marriage is a perversion anyway

- The 'Sorry' campaign
In two minds about this: Would be good to see some responsibility taken for things that have happened, but as soon as you do that - you open yourself to litigation and complications.

- Republic vs Monarchy
depends on the model of the republic. The queen has to go.

- Asylum seekers
Need to have controls and boundaries, and have better channels put in place (how to do this, however, is beyond me)

- Euthanasia
For terminally ill people this should be a definate right.

- Free trade agreement with the US
so long as we arnt screwed over by the US in it, i say bring it on.

- Censorship
I prefer to make up my own mind about the things that are usually censored.

 

[Pessimistic]

Euthanasia

When the public health service has enough money to treat everyone who is treatable then come back on that one - otherwise a health budget cut in real terms could be classed as legal murder

 

[Yianni]

Originally posted by otaku
- Legality of marijuana
legalise it, then tax it. More money into the coffers for something that people do anyway.

Gonna be a hard one to tax considering people can grow it in their own backyards...

Might be one of the reasons it's illegal to begin with?

 

[otaku]

Originally posted by Yianni
Gonna be a hard one to tax considering people can grow it in their own backyards...

Might be one of the reasons it's illegal to begin with?

you would think the same thing about alcohol too, wouldnt you?

can make it in your back yard, yet people still go out and buy it.

AND the govt gets a huge revenue from it.

 

[Mickey]

- Legality of marijuana

Keep it illegal

- Effects of pokies in the community

If people want to throw their money away, let them.

- Same-sex marital rights

Doesn't bother me, it's when they want to have kids that I dont like, but each to their own.

- The 'Sorry' campaign

Not my fault, why should someone say sorry on my behalf.

- Republic vs Monarchy

Republic

- Asylum seekers

Process them quickly and kick them out if they cause trouble in the centres, or are bad eggs. Personally I think we should just send them back out to sea again - but hey you cant do that can you - well maybe

- Euthanasia

If someone is terminally ill, let them kill themselves. No one has a right to tell me to live or die if I was in that position.

- Free trade agreement with the US

Go for it.

- Censorship

Depends on the type of censorship referred to.

 

[Hawkforce]

- Legality of marijuana

Decriminalise it. Legalising and taxing it needs proper evaluation and should only happen if and when cigarettes are classed in the same way.

- Effects of pokies in the community

Seems to me that the automatic regulatory reflex of liberal democratic society is dealing with this capably (gambling help lines etc...). Perhaps more effort needs to be put into those groups most at risk and most targetted (pensioners; asians).

- Same-sex marital rights

As far as I was aware this wasn't an issue in secular Aussie society??? Whatever... Gays have just as much right to formalise their relationships as heterosexuals.

- The 'Sorry' campaign

Say it. Say it NOW.

Not for the atrocities of Colonial Australia but for every year from Federation to Aboriginal Suffrance. For every year of federation that we failed to give aboriginies the right to vote.

But don't say it grudgingly. Don't say it out of necessity. Say it becuase we recognise that part of our RECENT history was reprehensible and we are mature enough to take responsibility as a nation for it.

SAY IT BECAUSE WE MEAN IT.

And realise that the excuse "it wasn't ME" is hopelessly defensive and indicates an utter denial of recent history, not to mention an intrinsic guilt-complex.

Realise that the guilt-complex will not go away until honest reparation has been made. It's NOT your guilt, but it becomes your guilt with each day you deny history.

And realise that the "legal claims" issue is a furphy. Firstly, any apology will only be made for federated Australia. Secondly, if our justice system at the highest level finds for claims by indigenous groups then that is justice.

And remember, the apology isn't being made to those members of ATSIC that get all the publicity. The apology is being made to an entire race of people who were dispossessed and disenfranchised and treated as chattel right up until the 1970's.

In 30 years Aus has reversed that history and implemented legislation and educational policies that we should be proud of. We should not shy away from acknowledging why we should be proud.

- Republic vs Monarchy

Republic. President elected by 2/3's parliament. Will never forgive the Pseuds who torpedoed the referendum...

- Asylum seekers

Presonally, I believe if a person from a country whose regime Australia refuses to recognise as legitimate arrives on Aus shores they MUST be granted asylum status. (I'm not sure which regimes Aus doesn't recognise now that Iraq and Afghanistan have been liberated... anyone??).


- Euthanasia

Suicide is a hangover from religious taboo. Therefore Euthanisia must be legislated.


- Free trade agreement with the US

Not sure why this is specifically about the US, but I generally believe in open markets and Globalisation as the only way to end global poverty. Obviously this is the "utopian" view of Globalisation...

- Censorship

There is no such thing as censorship in the liberal democratic world. The internet has ended it.

 

[TigerCraig]

Marijuana - Care factor zero

Pokies - Anyone who plays them is too stupid to be allowed to have money anyway

Same sex marital rights - Don't believe in legal 'marriage', but I do think same sex partnerships should have the same rights as heterosexual unions when it comes to superannuation, life insurance etc etc

Sorry - I never did anything

Republic v Monarchy - Republic, but with a 'figurehead' only President

Asylum Seekers - process them quickly

Euthenasia - Yes where the sick person is/was able to give informed consent

FTA with USA - We'll get screwed, but we will anyway

Censorship - Yes for heavy sex/violence stuff, no for political stuff

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by TigerCraig

Republic v Monarchy - Republic, but with a 'figurehead' only President

This was always going to be the case.

Unfortunately some idiots seem to think if we have a president we will be switching to some sort of American styled govt. Although there were a few different models bandies about, the general idea was for nothing to change except the Queen no longer being recognised and the title of Governor General being changed to President. The president taking on the same role as the GG (ie no real power).

I thought the main debate was concerning how the President/GG was elected.

It's a shame that heaps of tools hear the word 'President' and immediately start assuming that the president will replace the PM and will be voted in through parliament rather than proper election. Fools.

 

[TigerCraig]

I know (and agree)

 

[gPhonque]

Re: Re: Your views on omnipresent issues...

Originally posted by Bomber Spirit
Legality of marijuana - Legalise it and you take away its main attraction. The risk of that is that it could encourage people who want to experiment to go into harder and more addictive drugs.

You should really stop commenting on issues related to drugs as you clearly have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

Alcohol is legal, is it not?

Yet I don't see hordes of people off doing smack because alcohol is legal.

Your argument is complete rubbish. In fact, you don't even have one! You are one of those STUPID people who believes whatever Today/Tonight tell you.

Marijuana is NOT a stepping stone drug to heroin.

That said, I'm sure 90% of heroin junkies have smoked marijuana as well.

In fact, I bet you everything I own that every smackie has had a drink before too.

So using your "logic", alcohol is also a stepping stone drug to heroin.

Are you seeing the pattern here?

Isn't it obvious to you that people who do harder drugs are going to have done the "softer" drugs too?

It doesn't take a genius to work that out, although you seem to have trouble comprehending it.

The "main attraction" of marijuana has nothing to do with whether it is legal or not.

Stop believing everything you were told in Primary School and you might actually learn something about this issue.

Although sadly, it seems you have the independant thought capabilites of a bassett hound anyway, so I'm not holding my breath....



I am not for a second implying that marijuana can not be abused, but then, alcohol is regularly abused by people everyday. (and with far worse consequences)

Having known all types of people who have abused all kinds of drugs (knowledge you obviously lack Bomber Spirit), I know I'd rather have my next-door neighbour abusing weed than alcohol.

 

[bunsen burner]

The Mr Bigs who are controlling the fake homeless beggar racquet are the same ones who are getting kiddies hooked on pot as they know all too well that as soon as kids are hooked on pot they will go all the way. Did I also mention that it's common knowledge that you can buy smack off any street beggar? it's true. It's all a big sham run by Mr Big and Mr X.

 

[bunsen burner]

here, I found a pic of Mr Big

 

[Mickey]

Originally posted by bunsen burner
The Mr Bigs who are controlling the fake homeless beggar racquet are the same ones who are getting kiddies hooked on pot as they know all too well that as soon as kids are hooked on pot they will go all the way. Did I also mention that it's common knowledge that you can buy smack off any street beggar? it's true. It's all a big sham run by Mr Big and Mr X.

Is that who you buy your stuff off??

 

[bunsen burner]

Originally posted by Mickey
Is that who you buy your stuff off??

I cut out the middle man and go straight to Mr Big. See the white stuff on his thumb? He's just had a big line of charlie and is about to rub some on his teeth to get an instant buzz.

 

[Roylion]

Re: Re: Re: Your views on omnipresent issues...

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Who said anything about changing our style of govt? As far as I knew it would be almost exactly the same.

\

In my view it's a fairly big change to go from a head of state who is hereditary and therefore above politics, to one where the head of state is elected, either by Parliament or by direct election. The position of head of state then becomes a political position.

And no, I don't regard the Governor-General as our head-of-state despite what some monarchists might try to imply. The GG is the head of state's representative in Australia.