Owners

[moomba]

I like to think we have the balance pretty well nailed down. Obviously not paupers but also not spending like a wounded bull to get trophies. Some elements of the fan base are obviously not haply with the current tight arse methods of our ownership but I for one can understand it exiting from a pandemic even if Im not fully onboard with it.

You dont need the backing of a state for success.

I said you need money, not the backing of a state. And Liverpool have plenty, and have spent plenty.

Pretty good bang for their buck too. But as you pointed out yourself some in your own supporter base are concerned that a drop off in spending will result in a drop off in results.

And let's not forget quite a few were pretty desperate for middle East money when you had a different set of yanks in charge.

 

[SM]

One of the worst, yes.

Fair enough, I can think of plenty worse but each to their own.

 

[Bostonian]

Angry Premier League clubs demand emergency meeting on Newcastle deal | Newcastle United | The Guardian

Bribe central.

 

[Established1870]

Villareal it was their first major trophy IIRC. Largely down to Europa League specialist, Unai Emery. A man who trying to achieve the big awards in France and England was spat out by PSG and Arsenal.

Unai Emery isn't the basis of my point in regards to Villarreal, it's their ability to compete for European trophies with the level of financial resources they have that pale in comparison to numerous bigger clubs in Spain and across Europe. They also made numerous deep runs in the EL and UCL before they won, making the semi finals of the UCL under Pellegrini and were unbelievably close to knocking out Arsenal during the peak of the Invincibles.

Ajax is by virtue of being the biggest fish in a medium sized pond essentially the proving ground for a lot of future stars of football. Players who go on to achieve lots of success... After a big club has poached them off Ajax.

True but clubs in similiar sized leagues with talent pathways have fallen off the cliff due to financial mismanagement. Marseille, Monaco, Deportivo, Benfica, Sporting, Dynamo Kiev and Anderlecht are all clubs I can think of who were considered the top dogs of their leagues and went by the wayside because they were useless with money. Ajax weren't and smartly went about building the squad they did to get that far in the Champions League.

Dortmund is again down to the manager moreso than anything else. Jurgen took them to the top of German football and nearly European football. Have won little since, despite being close a lot. Destined to continue being picked off by Bayern every time they get close. Ala Leipzig with Upamecano and Nagelsmann. Jurgen goes to Liverpool who since City's arrival on the scene had stagnated poorly... Has taken them to the top.

Dortmund was down to Klopp and Zorc who performed miracle after miracle in the transfer window leading up to Klopp taking BVB to the heights he did and considering where they are now compared to where they could've been, even finishing Top 2 every second year is still a massive upgrade.

SSC Napoli. Won a couple of cups. So have Arsenal. Come close to winning the league but didn't. Recurring theme from Dortmund

Doesn't matter really does it? We're talking about a club that folded, started from the bottom of Italian football, got back to the top and stayed there despite not having a state or oligarch backing them.

Leicester was a giant fluke and will sit in that area above mid table but unlikely to make a sustained push for top 4. Hell, they've bottled the last 2 seasons for top 4.

Leicester was a giant fluke but it's still the greatest story in modern sporting history and the owners haven't spent billions trying to repeat it, just spending sustainable levels to keep them as a top half club.

West Ham. Puh-lease. 1 season fluke and the hardly arduous demands of UEL group stage already has them behind my shadow of a club.

They're 10 games into the season and lost 2 games two last minute goals (and missed a penalty that would've gotten a point against Man United). It's not like they've been absolute s**t. And with what Moyes has done there, it's entirely feasible they keep up competing for European places if they don't utensil it up (but with their owners this is actually possible).

So unless you have a great manager ala Simeone, Emery, Klopp being a club that is not in the blank cheque crowd becomes VERY difficult to win something once, let alone sustain it.

I agree that a great manager helps but they also all achieved their success with clubs who are financially responsible and are great at finding and developing players on a consistent basis.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Unai Emery isn't the basis of my point in regards to Villarreal, it's their ability to compete for European trophies with the level of financial resources they have that pale in comparison to numerous bigger clubs in Spain and across Europe. They also made numerous deep runs in the EL and UCL before they won, making the semi finals of the UCL under Pellegrini and were unbelievably close to knocking out Arsenal during the peak of the Invincibles.



True but clubs in similiar sized leagues with talent pathways have fallen off the cliff due to financial mismanagement. Marseille, Monaco, Deportivo, Benfica, Sporting, Dynamo Kiev and Anderlecht are all clubs I can think of who were considered the top dogs of their leagues and went by the wayside because they were useless with money. Ajax weren't and smartly went about building the squad they did to get that far in the Champions League.



Dortmund was down to Klopp and Zorc who performed miracle after miracle in the transfer window leading up to Klopp taking BVB to the heights he did and considering where they are now compared to where they could've been, even finishing Top 2 every second year is still a massive upgrade.



Doesn't matter really does it? We're talking about a club that folded, started from the bottom of Italian football, got back to the top and stayed there despite not having a state or oligarch backing them.



Leicester was a giant fluke but it's still the greatest story in modern sporting history and the owners haven't spent billions trying to repeat it, just spending sustainable levels to keep them as a top half club.



They're 10 games into the season and lost 2 games two last minute goals (and missed a penalty that would've gotten a point against Man United). It's not like they've been absolute sh*t. And with what Moyes has done there, it's entirely feasible they keep up competing for European places if they don't utensil it up (but with their owners this is actually possible).



I agree that a great manager helps but they also all achieved their success with clubs who are financially responsible and are great at finding and developing players on a consistent basis.

I think we are talking across purposes.
I am not talking about contending, or being close. Many have done that without a source of significant cash investment, very few maintain it.
Those who do, like Napoli, Dortmund, Ajax are in leagues with diminished competition. England is a different beast entirely. Most clubs in the PL have more money to spend than mid tier clubs on the continent.

To win titles invariably you need to be bankrolled by someone who throws cash around without a care in the world.
If you want to name flukes or wins against the trend that doesn't really disprove the assertion.

Germany, Italy, Spain are 9/10 times won by the 1-2 clubs that are vastly wealthier than everyone else in their division.
France is almost always won by a club backed by a sovereign state.
City and Chelsea feature heavily in trophies won in England, while Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool are struggling to keep up with monetary constraints.

To that end, NUFC's takeover is very bad for football. We don't need more of these a-hole's. We need to get rid of the one's that already plague the game.

 

[jod23]

A couple of Hollywood stars (someone like Matt Damon) owns a league 1 or 2 club but for the life of me I can't remember which one.

Wouldn't surprise me if LeBron James becomes a part owner of a club one day, you would be surprised how popular football, especially the Premier League and La Liga is among NBA stars.

Steve Nash is a Spurs tragic for example, in fact he was a Champion Junior Footballer in Canada before he became an NBA champion and arguably the worst two time MVP winner ever (he definitely robbed Kobe in one of the year's he won it)

Just a few things.

LeBron is a part owner at Liverpool FC.

Steve Nash was never an NBA Champion.

Nash never robbed Kobe. He robbed Shaq.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Just a few things.

LeBron is a part owner at Liverpool FC.

Steve Nash was never an NBA Champion.

Nash never robbed Kobe. He robbed Shaq.

Take it to the s**t american sports board

 

[jod23]

It's somewhat easy for supporters of clubs like Liverpool or Man Ure when you have never been placed in a position where bad ownership has driven your club to its literal knees.

We've been there, I would not have been happy if the Saudi's bailed us out.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Worse than the Venky's, Oyston's, Bates? Plenty of others I can think of too, Winkelman for example.

Massimo Cellino too. Amongst his other crimes he sexually discriminated against one of our greatest female footballers and club servants in Lucy Ward.

Morally bankrupt arsehole.

 

[SM]

Speaking of owners, I'm curious to see what Moomba and others think of Gold and Sullivan. Two years ago and I reckon they'd be up there with Ashley as supposedly bad owners. But a bit of luck with a few cheap buys from the Czech leagues (Souceck and Coufal) plus shrewd buys from the lower leagues (Antonio, Bowen, Benrahma) and suddenly they're a top half side and presumably 'good' owners.

But over the last 5 seasons West Ham have only spent about 30-35m more than Newcastle's supposedly 'awful' owner.

If Joelinton had turned out to be a 10-15 goal a season striker, Almiron a creative, dangerous, Payet-esque option, would Ashley be viewed in a different light?

 

[BobbyMorri]

If Joelinton had turned out to be a 10-15 goal a season striker, Almiron a creative, dangerous, Payet-esque option, would Ashley be viewed in a different light?

no

remember Keegan. Dennis Wise. Shearer, Joe Kinnear. Rafa leaving, Steve Bruce. Sports Direct everywhere in the stadium and changing the name of St James Park, Wonga. Do you want me to go on?

Results and money spend aren't the only thing which makes an owner good or not. I would have thought a Hull City fan would know that.

 

[SM]

no

remember Keegan. Dennis Wise. Shearer, Joe Kinnear. Rafa leaving, Steve Bruce. Sports Direct everywhere in the stadium and changing the name of St James Park, Wonga. Do you want me to go on?

Results and money spend aren't the only thing which makes an owner good or not. I would have thought a Hull City fan would know that.

Please go on because I don't quite think you understand my point.

If those players had turned out as I suggested, Newcastle would be in the top half pushing for a European spot and you would be quite happy with how things were.

What did you think when Pardew had you finish 5th? Were you baying for Ashley's blood?

The Allams had us as a competitive PL club then when the name change went against them turned completely against the club and almost actively sought its demise. Yet still we are a relatively debt free, sustainable Championship club, and not on a continuous downwards trajectory like some. Compare to a Cardiff who went through a similar misadventure with their owners, and are now settling into life in the Championship. Compare both to a Newcastle who went through the horrendous misadventure of an attempted stadium renaming exercise, a sponsorship from an apparently undesirable brand, and, uh, what, two seasons in the Championship in the last 13 seasons? Oh deary me.

I want the Allams gone, but if I was given the choice between them and the Saudi Arabians, I would be quite happy with how we were, thanks very much. As it is, we are likely to be taken over by an ambitious Turkish consortium, which I welcome with interest, but if they turn out to be no better, then I have no qualms with trying to push them out too. Last season in League One was just about the most enjoyable season I've experienced since the 2015/16 season so I hold no airs about which league we play in.

 

[BobbyMorri]

Please go on because I don't quite think you understand my point.

If those players had turned out as I suggested, Newcastle would be in the top half pushing for a European spot and you would be quite happy with how things were.

What did you think when Pardew had you finish 5th? Were you baying for Ashley's blood?

The Allams had us as a competitive PL club then when the name change went against them turned completely against the club and almost actively sought its demise. Yet still we are a relatively debt free, sustainable Championship club, and not on a continuous downwards trajectory like some. Compare to a Cardiff who went through a similar misadventure with their owners, and are now settling into life in the Championship. Compare both to a Newcastle who went through the horrendous misadventure of an attempted stadium renaming exercise, a sponsorship from an apparently undesirable brand, and, uh, what, two seasons in the Championship in the last 13 seasons? Oh deary me.

I want the Allams gone, but if I was given the choice between them and the Saudi Arabians, I would be quite happy with how we were, thanks very much. As it is, we are likely to be taken over by an ambitious Turkish consortium, which I welcome with interest, but if they turn out to be no better, then I have no qualms with trying to push them out too. Last season in League One was just about the most enjoyable season I've experienced since the 2015/16 season so I hold no airs about which league we play in.

and I am telling you results can hide discontent but Mike has been unwanted for a long long time due to his past actions. but please, keep up this crap that Mike was an angel of an owner, he was just unlucky by replacing Rafa with Steve Bruce and everything else he did. For such a successful businessman, he really did not care in the end. Hey, don't blame him. After the Keegan incident, the abuse would have got would have put anyone off.

Newcastle are a single club in a big city. they have different expectations. Comparing Hull to Newcastle is chalk and cheese. Newcastle's history is long and storied. There was a kick away from being a div 3 club for the first time before Keegan and Sir John Hall happened. They were romping away with the title several years later before Fergie happened. They have beaten Juve and Barca. They also lost to Hereford.

Its a nutty club with nutty supporters. super proud of being a Geordie and loyal to the football team. Most would have never seen their team win anything(outside several div 2 titles and an Intertoto cup). different expectations

 

[moomba]

Speaking of owners, I'm curious to see what Moomba and others think of Gold and Sullivan. Two years ago and I reckon they'd be up there with Ashley as supposedly bad owners. But a bit of luck with a few cheap buys from the Czech leagues (Souceck and Coufal) plus shrewd buys from the lower leagues (Antonio, Bowen, Benrahma) and suddenly they're a top half side and presumably 'good' owners.

But over the last 5 seasons West Ham have only spent about 30-35m more than Newcastle's supposedly 'awful' owner.

If Joelinton had turned out to be a 10-15 goal a season striker, Almiron a creative, dangerous, Payet-esque option, would Ashley be viewed in a different light?

Gold and Sullivan are awful.

 

[SM]

and I am telling you results can hide discontent but Mike has been unwanted for a long long time due to his past actions. but please, keep up this crap that Mike was an angel of an owner, he was just unlucky by replacing Rafa with Steve Bruce and everything else he did. For such a successful businessman, he really did not care in the end. Hey, don't blame him. After the Keegan incident, the abuse would have got would have put anyone off.

Newcastle are a single club in a big city. they have different expectations. Comparing Hull to Newcastle is chalk and cheese. Newcastle's history is long and storied. There was a kick away from being a div 3 club for the first time before Keegan and Sir John Hall happened. They were romping away with the title several years later before Fergie happened. They have beaten Juve and Barca. They also lost to Hereford.

Its a nutty club with nutty supporters. super proud of being a Geordie and loyal to the football team. Most would have never seen their team win anything(outside several div 2 titles and an Intertoto cup). different expectations

Who on earth has said he's been an angel of an owner? I contended the idea that he is one of the worst ever which is utter rubbish. How many owners are really adored by their club? I reckon I could name 3-4 owners off the top of my head who are loved by their club. Can you name more?

Who compared Hull to Newcastle? You were the one to bring up our name change as some sort of comparable issue to your travails.

You've written a lot of words without saying much, which is quite telling.

 

[SM]

Gd and Sullivan are awful.

Better or worse than Ashley?

 

[moomba]

Better or worse than Ashley?

Worse.

[Edit]Sorry, meant better (IMO)

 

[DBAH0]

Gold and Sullivan are awful.

Agreed. That said, Sullivan has finally allowed Moyes to implement a structure on how to run the club. He got burned allowing Pellegrini and Husillos spend 150m quid with no return.

Our training ground is still worst in the league though.

 

[SM]

Agreed. That said, Sullivan has finally allowed Moyes to implement a structure on how to run the club. He got burned allowing Pellegrini and Husillos spend 150m quid with no return.

Our training ground is still worst in the league though.

Even worse than Newcastle's? Say it ain't so..

 

[Established1870]

Newcastle fans speak of suffering but what about actual suffering in Saudi Arabia? | Jonathan Wilson

Supporters sang about getting their club back but it is hard to imagine a way it could be more profoundly taken away

www.theguardian.com

 

[DBAH0]

Even worse than Newcastle's? Say it ain't so..

It'd be close, we have a few portables from what I've read.

Sounds like we might be trying to upgrade though.

West Ham submits fresh proposal to build new training building

West Ham United has submitted an application to build a new training facility at the club's Rush Green site.

www.romfordrecorder.co.uk

 

[RossFC]

 

[daicos4ever]

Gold and Sullivan are no better than Ashley was. West Ham are another poorly run club not anywhere close to their potential.

Someone mentioned Joelinton before. £40m for a player that was average in the Bundesliga and not wanted by anyone else - so the price can’t be put down to performance, potential or a bidding war. Rafa didn’t want him, and he was signed in the time between Rafa leaving and Bruce starting. He is an OK player with terrible finishing. I would argue he’s not even worth a quarter of what they paid. The transfer didn’t fit the usual criteria - buy young and cheap and sell at a profit.

So the signing and the amount paid can either go to gross incompetence or dodgy deals with agents and representatives. I suspect a bit of both. Ashley didn’t splash the case easily and I can’t see him throwing that much at a speculative prospect without ulterior motives.

As far as that emergency meeting of the other 19 clubs, I find it hard to believe that Man City and Chelsea would be involved in that, if they are it would be absolute hypocrisy. In fact any of the “Big Six” being involved is hypocrisy, after Big Picture and Super League. Also don’t know that the ownership of Norwich, Watford, Brentford, Burnley and the like would be that bothered aside from possibly losing a relegation rival (I say possibly because Newcastle still have to get to January with their head above water which is no guarantee). They certainly don’t have as much to lose as the “Big Six”.

An alternative take that has been reported by Craig Hope - who despite being a Daily Mail reporter has been on the ball with most aspects of the takeover - is that Daniel Levy has been lobbying the PL to block the takeover with support from Man Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal. This has been rumoured since the initial takeover stalled last year and was alluded to during the CAT hearing last week. He has called a meeting to block lucrative sponsorship and I presume other potential revenue streams. He has well and truly thrown the toys out of the cot. There’s a photo of Levy and Richard Masters at a match last weekend and to say a picture is worth a thousand words would be a massive understatement.

You could say that Levy and Spurs have the most to lose of any other club, as they depend on Champions League income to stay ahead of the stadium debt. Sure seemed Spurs were the next big thing five or so years ago but it’s a different story now.

Another thing with these alleged meetings - it’s all about money and power.

At the very least the status quo has been shaken and I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

 

[TheGreatBarryB]

Ah yes thank god the intolerable suffering Newcastle fans have suffered under the Ashley regime…the inhumanity of an average 13th position over those 14 brutal years is finally over. If Ashley had hired a decent manager instead of Bruce that may have been even higher. The horror

 

[daicos4ever]

The same lawyer that represents that Newcastle cow represents the PL super league f***ers.

You’re showing your true colours here, champ.