Society/Culture Constable Butcher gets $3.3 Million Payout.

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RisingPhoenix

RisingPhoenix

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Im interested to hear the views on Bigfooty regarding the record payout to Constable Butcher.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...arded-record-33m/story-e6frg6nf-1225993880227

I should disclose that I am a former WA Police officer (recently retired, but for the record dont know Matt Butcher personally), but I like to think I am a pretty objective, pragmatic bloke.

For example, I have serious concerns about tasers. I left the force as they were being rolled out, but the basic principle is that they are designed as a replacement means of providing non lethal self defence to officers being attacked in situations which would traditionally of involved the use of firearms etc. They are not supposed to be used as a compliance tool. IMO, (and it will go against the thinking of a lot of mates I still have), Butcher was in the wrong in as much as his use of the taser likely provoked the attack which caused his injuries.

Thoughts?
 
it's not for me to pass judgement on the size of the amount awarded, needless to say that if he's going to have a serious form of disability for the rest of his life, hopefully this will allow him to go back to something that resembles a normal life.

my concern is more that the family that was responsible for this are still around and terrorising perth.
 
I've heard Butcher speak (well) and he is without malice, but I doubt anyone would begrudge him slipping a few bucks to a bikie to visit McLeod. Dog of the highest order.

I can't say many would disagree with the payout, although the issue of no justice being served in the McLeod case would probably mean an impartial opinion is hard.
I imagine most people in the community are happy there is some compensation for people in essential services who are injured whilst putting themselves into harm's way for the good of the community.
 

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Seems a little excessive. I think he should have on about half of that, 650k for a house and 1 million for living.

It is my understanding that the guy who laid the headbutt got off ... this implies that the Constable was acting incorrectly.
 
Ruck Machine said:
Seems a little excessive. I think he should have on about half of that, 650k for a house and 1 million for living.

It is my understanding that the guy who laid the headbutt got off ... this implies that the Constable was acting incorrectly.
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His QC got him off an a technicality:rolleyes:
 
The Reaper said:
His QC got him off an a technicality:rolleyes:
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Technicalities are there for a reason.

I ask you this.

"If you're saw your Father getting tasered by a cop what what you do?"

I would attempt to defend my father if he was getting tasered ... even if I knew he was in the wrong. I may not launch head first into the cop but I would certainly use force to stop the tasering.
 
I agree with you that a lot of coppers seem a bit too ready to use them when someone mouths off at them, or tries to wriggle out of handcuffs - they're not non-lethal, for a start; just less-lethal.

But I reckon your position might be a bit different if the McLeods were muslims.

Butcher deserves a pretty hefty payout. I'm not going to comment on the figures because I have no idea about WA law. But I think, in general, anyone that puts their safety and well-being at risk in their profession, particularly a public service, deserves to have the law on their side.
 
The Reaper said:
Payout was justified.

The McLeods are scum.
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The entire family are oxygen thiefs.

I usually don't like high payouts, but in this case it was entirely deserved. Butcher has been left permanently crippled.

At least Butcher is a humble average guy - no doubt he will spend his money wisely.

Compare him to Mallard. There is a guy that should not have received a cent.
 
Ruck Machine said:
Technicalities are there for a reason.

I ask you this.

"If you're saw your Father getting tasered by a cop what what you do?"

I would attempt to defend my father if he was getting tasered ... even if I knew he was in the wrong. I may not launch head first into the cop but I would certainly use force to stop the tasering.
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the cops are cops. If you hit a cop you should go away unless they are GROSSLY out of line. Butcher was just doing his job to control a bunch of drunk, abusive and violent thugs.

The problem is these rednecks out in the northern suburbs have absolutely no respect for the law. The base finding should ALWAYS be in favor of the cop unless there is evidence against him.
 
Ruck Machine said:
Seems a little excessive. I think he should have on about half of that, 650k for a house and 1 million for living.
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He has to have pyso and doctors opponents on almost a daily basis, that kind of thing costs you $$$ long term, theres no insurance to buy when you have a permenant diability.

Worth every penny, he got the same as Mallard, a guy who is healthy as a bull and will live a very long life unlike Butcher who will have complications for the rest of his life.
 
J_Moore said:
I agree with you that a lot of coppers seem a bit too ready to use them when someone mouths off at them, or tries to wriggle out of handcuffs - they're not non-lethal, for a start; just less-lethal.

But I reckon your position might be a bit different if the McLeods were muslims.

Butcher deserves a pretty hefty payout. I'm not going to comment on the figures because I have no idea about WA law. But I think, in general, anyone that puts their safety and well-being at risk in their profession, particularly a public service, deserves to have the law on their side.
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And you reckon that the amount would've been greater? Why do you find the need to introduce racism into the thread? Racist prick.
 

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Belnakor said:
He has to have pyso and doctors opponents on almost a daily basis, that kind of thing costs you $$$ long term, theres no insurance to buy when you have a permenant diability.

Worth every penny, he got the same as Mallard, a guy who is healthy as a bull and will live a very long life unlike Butcher who will have complications for the rest of his life.
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They're bloody expensive those 'doctors opponents'!
 
A taser should not be used in a situation where the use of a gun would be inappropriate. They should be used as an alternative to deadly force.

I saw that vision that the CCC released recently, that was a disgrace. Nobody would say that a policeman would be justified getting his gun out and putting a few into his chest, not even over in the wild west. Taser use should be viewed in the same light.

Don't intrepret this as a critism leveled at Mr. Butcher. At the end of the day these issues are above the head of the average copper on the street. Good luck to him.
 
I want to emphasise that I don't have a problem with the fact that Matt Butcher received a payout for his injuries nor do I question the amount received as I am sure it will be well used but what I do question is how this amount was arrived at.

Debbie Freeman a mental health nurse who was bashed unconscious by a patient back in 2004 - was in a coma, spents months in hospital and had to learn to walk and speak again received a payout of $107,000 - she was just doing her job and I don't understand how the payouts can differ so greatly and at the time Rob Johnson said that this was not going to be a precedence for future cases - who makes the decision as to who gets what - it would seem in the case of matt butcher that the media was his white knight and kept his case very firmly in the spotlight. I just have to wonder how many other police, nurses etc. have been seriously injured both physically and mentally over the years and received no payments at all.

In regards to the use of tasers - While I can see the use they have and if used correctly could be an effective tool in maintaining situations, I am against them. It seems to have become common practice here in Perth to use them at will without thought to the consequences and if the only weapon they had was a gun there is no way they would use them as often as often as they do a taser. If they are going to be used then I think more training should be involved and very clear guidelines drawn up as to when they can and can't be used. If they were using batons in the same manner I can imagine the outcry would be massive.
 
The Reaper said:
His QC got him off an a technicality:rolleyes:
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If I go by the very brief media summaries (admittedly hardly reliable at the best of times), the jury had at least some belief that the police were not acting lawfully, and that therefore there was a justified self defence. It also sounds like there was some issue over intent.

That is using a clear and well-established defence and challenging the elements of charges - not a "technicality", basic law.

The A-G's response to the verdict is quite interesting. Probably spraying blame a bit, but I don't disagree with some of his suggested changes: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/porter-flags-new-law-changes-after-trial-20090313-8xif.html
 
tandino said:
A taser should not be used in a situation where the use of a gun would be inappropriate. They should be used as an alternative to deadly force.

I saw that vision that the CCC released recently, that was a disgrace. Nobody would say that a policeman would be justified getting his gun out and putting a few into his chest, not even over in the wild west. Taser use should be viewed in the same light.

Don't intrepret this as a critism leveled at Mr. Butcher. At the end of the day these issues are above the head of the average copper on the street. Good luck to him.
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Unfortunately it isnt, and I suspect it'll take more than a few handful of deaths before people's attitudes towards them begin to change.

As you said, Taser's are supposed to be an alternative to guns. Would it of been appropriate to draw a gun in the Butcher sitution? No.

Unfortunately, they have become the first response option im afraid.
 
Donners said:
If I go by the very brief media summaries (admittedly hardly reliable at the best of times), the jury had at least some belief that the police were not acting lawfully, and that therefore there was a justified self defence. It also sounds like there was some issue over intent.

That is using a clear and well-established defence and challenging the elements of charges - not a "technicality", basic law.

The A-G's response to the verdict is quite interesting. Probably spraying blame a bit, but I don't disagree with some of his suggested changes: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/porter-flags-new-law-changes-after-trial-20090313-8xif.html
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How about increased training on the use of tasers?
 
I think any use of force by police should be carefully managed through training and procedures, whether it's tasers, guns or otherwise.

No problem at all with police using force where required, to carry out their duties and minimise the threat to themselves and the public, but those situations do need to be limited. If it is a "first response option", it's a worry.
 
tandino said:
A taser should not be used in a situation where the use of a gun would be inappropriate. They should be used as an alternative to deadly force.
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I am not going to make any comments on the legitimacy of using tasers as I do not have an informed opinion on their use. However, Const. Butcher was well within his rights to use his taser in that situation as it was the Directive of the Police Commissioner that officers may use tasers in situations were injury is likely. SoP's have since changed following the Spratt debacle.

Deserved every cent, the McLeod's must be one of Perth's most hated family's.
 
Butcher is a scumbag. The Mcleods we're found innocent for a reason and that was becasue of Matt Butchers pure stupdity. workplace comp doesn't do anything different through other jobs Because of the public backlash from our stupid loser locals aka the OP Porter had no chance but to grant money and Butchers legal team where aware of it.
 
It was said on channel seven news when accident first happened. Kept hush hush since then. Don't know if he was guilty but by the logic that idiots in Perth talkback then he is guilty.
 
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