Review Calling all posters to write player reviews
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Squizz
Brownlow Medallist
- Oct 10, 2007
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Players to be reviewed (20). Stars galore yet to be done:
Blake
Clarke
Cripps
Curren (dibs thunda)
Dempster
Ferguson (dibs thunda)
Gilbert (dibs squizzy)
Goddard
Gwilt
Jones
Koschitzke
Lever
Markworth (dibs Rahul)
McEvoy (dibs TS31)
Milera (dibs Hayes)
Peake
Schneider
Staley
Webster
Big Borderline Bad Beau Wilkes (dibs freak)
Over half way
I'll take the W Train
saint_larry
Team Captain
- Aug 16, 2009
- 330
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- Other Teams
- Wigan.
I know, he's been done, but, well, yeah.
STEPHEN MILNE, #44
Milney, milney, milney.
Demoralised premiership favourites Carlton.
Takes the game beyond reach from the Swans in one brilliant quarter.
Sparked the demolition of the Bombers.
Probably his best ever Gabba performance against the Lions.
One of his greatest ever interstate performances the next week at the SCG.
Stitched up AA defender Corey Enright.
Put in a dominant display against the plucky Giants.
7 absolutely stellar games from Milne in 2012, one every few weeks, can’t ask for a lot more. His record interstate also reads very nicely, 16 goals in 6 games.
BUT.
Go through that list, only 2 of these performances came before round 15.
Milney’s last third of the season was arguably his greatest ever 2 month stretch, but let’s be honest, leading up to that he was generally pretty poor. Disposal was erratic, accuracy was down, and every contest that came about he seemed to try to get out the back for a cheap goal.
Those last two months though. Carry that form into next year, look out AFL.
Saints to surge up the ladder.
Round 1 - 14 goals per game - 2.1 (Still very good, but a bit misleading.)
Round 15 - 23 goals per game – 3.2
Round 1 - 14 rating – 5/10
Round 15 – 23 rating – 9/10
Total rating – 7/10
STEPHEN MILNE, #44
Milney, milney, milney.
Demoralised premiership favourites Carlton.
Takes the game beyond reach from the Swans in one brilliant quarter.
Sparked the demolition of the Bombers.
Probably his best ever Gabba performance against the Lions.
One of his greatest ever interstate performances the next week at the SCG.
Stitched up AA defender Corey Enright.
Put in a dominant display against the plucky Giants.
7 absolutely stellar games from Milne in 2012, one every few weeks, can’t ask for a lot more. His record interstate also reads very nicely, 16 goals in 6 games.
BUT.
Go through that list, only 2 of these performances came before round 15.
Milney’s last third of the season was arguably his greatest ever 2 month stretch, but let’s be honest, leading up to that he was generally pretty poor. Disposal was erratic, accuracy was down, and every contest that came about he seemed to try to get out the back for a cheap goal.
Those last two months though. Carry that form into next year, look out AFL.
Saints to surge up the ladder.
Round 1 - 14 goals per game - 2.1 (Still very good, but a bit misleading.)
Round 15 - 23 goals per game – 3.2
Round 1 - 14 rating – 5/10
Round 15 – 23 rating – 9/10
Total rating – 7/10
7/10's a bit harsh for an All Australian
saint_larry
Team Captain
- Aug 16, 2009
- 330
- 148
- AFL Club
- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Wigan.
Yeahhhhhh quite.7/10's a bit harsh for an All Australian
Harsh but apt.
7/10 is fairly generous to a player that finished 12th in the B&F though
Kildonan
Premium Platinum
I think the incongruity of the All Australian who finished 12th in his own teams B&F award is that The All Australian selectors felt it necessary to include a small forward in the side. There is no doubt that Milne is the best small forward in the game. It would be fair to say that had the selectors just chosen the best 6 forwards regardless of the specific role then Milney most likely would not have been selected. I am pleased that he was. He is being recognised as being the best player of his type (and has been for a generation). I am also pleased because just choosing 3 CHF's and 3FF's as the forwardline in the All Australian team is not representative. Kudos to the selectors.
sammm
Premium Platinum
Milne admitted himself that he did play well in the first half of the season. he stated he was injured.
Interestingly Milne was not in Mike Sheehan's top 50 or 2012. Betts and Jetta were. Milne kicked a few more goals but Betts seems to win more contested ball and tackle more. Jetta has a certain amount of hype at this stage IMO, I dont rate him higher than Saad.
stkildathunda
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St Kilda Saints - Tom Ledger 2012 Player Sponsor
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- Thread starter
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TOM LEDGER
VFL Seniors Games: 13
VFL Seniors Goals: 6
VFL Seniors Averages: 23.69 disposals, 3.61 marks and 1.92 tackles
AFL Games: 4
AFL Goals: 1
AFL Averages: 13.3 disposals, 1.3 marks and 1.8 tackles
Tom Ledger can look back on 2012 and say he was incredibly unlucky to not have played more than 4 games. Throughout entire preseason and NAB Cup he was possibly the best performed “kid” on Saints list and it looked like he was set for breakout year. He was rewarded for his form with selection in St Kilda’s round 1 match against Port Adelaide, only to be late withdrawal. It’s still one most baffling selection decisions of season as no one has ever worked out why. In round 2 he came back into side, but used as the sub. He managed to collect 8 disposals in only 34% of the game. He was then dropped for round 3 and wasn’t to be seen in Saints line-up until Round 20, despite averaging 23.69 disposals a game for Sandringham in VFL.
Tommy Ledger is an out and out ball magnet; he has shown he can collect 10+ disposals in limited game time on numerous occasions. The concern around Ledger for most of the season was his ability to run out full game in AFL, something he worked on all year and in the Round 22 clash against GWS was able to do, collecting career high 21 disposals.
“I’ve been working on a few things and I just wanted to show that I’m good enough to play in this team and regularly,” Ledger told saints.com after the match.
“I also wanted to prove I could run out four quarters to the coaching staff, and really have an impact in those four quarters and not let off for a quarter or two.”
“I had a taste a couple of weeks ago (in AFL) against Melbourne where I played three quarters, but to get a full game under my belt, really helped, it’s what I needed.”
Ledger had an outstanding season in VFL, finishing 9th in their Best and Fairest. He has the ability to become an elite midfielder of the competition and moulds himself on Lenny Hayes and Leigh Montagna. His inside work is too be marvelled at, reminds you of a little bull terrier. When you’re not afraid to throw your body around and can consistently rack up 20+ disposals a game it goes a long way to becoming an extremely good footballer.
Tommy Ledger just needs to be given the opportunity he deserves and he will show everyone what he is capable of, for all Saints fans we just need to hope it’s with the St Kilda Football Club as he remains unsigned and that is a major concern.
Photo appears with approval and courtesy of Dave Savell.
VFL Seniors Games: 13
VFL Seniors Goals: 6
VFL Seniors Averages: 23.69 disposals, 3.61 marks and 1.92 tackles
AFL Games: 4
AFL Goals: 1
AFL Averages: 13.3 disposals, 1.3 marks and 1.8 tackles
Tom Ledger can look back on 2012 and say he was incredibly unlucky to not have played more than 4 games. Throughout entire preseason and NAB Cup he was possibly the best performed “kid” on Saints list and it looked like he was set for breakout year. He was rewarded for his form with selection in St Kilda’s round 1 match against Port Adelaide, only to be late withdrawal. It’s still one most baffling selection decisions of season as no one has ever worked out why. In round 2 he came back into side, but used as the sub. He managed to collect 8 disposals in only 34% of the game. He was then dropped for round 3 and wasn’t to be seen in Saints line-up until Round 20, despite averaging 23.69 disposals a game for Sandringham in VFL.
Tommy Ledger is an out and out ball magnet; he has shown he can collect 10+ disposals in limited game time on numerous occasions. The concern around Ledger for most of the season was his ability to run out full game in AFL, something he worked on all year and in the Round 22 clash against GWS was able to do, collecting career high 21 disposals.
“I’ve been working on a few things and I just wanted to show that I’m good enough to play in this team and regularly,” Ledger told saints.com after the match.
“I also wanted to prove I could run out four quarters to the coaching staff, and really have an impact in those four quarters and not let off for a quarter or two.”
“I had a taste a couple of weeks ago (in AFL) against Melbourne where I played three quarters, but to get a full game under my belt, really helped, it’s what I needed.”
Ledger had an outstanding season in VFL, finishing 9th in their Best and Fairest. He has the ability to become an elite midfielder of the competition and moulds himself on Lenny Hayes and Leigh Montagna. His inside work is too be marvelled at, reminds you of a little bull terrier. When you’re not afraid to throw your body around and can consistently rack up 20+ disposals a game it goes a long way to becoming an extremely good footballer.
Tommy Ledger just needs to be given the opportunity he deserves and he will show everyone what he is capable of, for all Saints fans we just need to hope it’s with the St Kilda Football Club as he remains unsigned and that is a major concern.
Photo appears with approval and courtesy of Dave Savell.
- Aug 25, 2012
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FISHER, Sam\
AFL Matches: 15
AFL Goals: 1
AFL Kicks Per Match: 11.9
AFL Hand-passes Per Match: 5.8
AFL Marks Per Match: 6.3 (3rd at St Kilda)
AFL Tackles Per Match: 1.9
AFL Rebound 50s Per Match: 3.1 (3rd at Saints with 5 games minimum)
Sam Fisher’s season was badly effected by a change of roles. The Saints key defender predicament forced Fisher out of his usual position as a rebounding, marking defender into a lock-down centre half-back. This was reflected in his statistics – his disposal and marks numbers were much lower than his previous years – however Fisher was still a vital part of the St Kilda back 6. As a more defensive backman, ‘Chips’ struggled to rack up high possession numbers. This was the first season since 2005 that Sam did not accumulate 100 marks in the Premiership Season. Furthermore, it was the first time since 2004 that Fisher had not completed 50 ‘rebound 50s’ in the year, the same could be said for his disposals, hand passes and kicks tally. Despite these short-comings in the statistical side, Fisher was still extremely highly valued by St Kilda, he was brilliant in stopping many opposition forwards.
2012 was a disappointment for Sam Fisher. The elite defender struggled to shape games with his rebound off half-back due to his different job in the Saints line-up. Fisher will look to free up more in 2013, he could form a brilliant partnership with Sean Dempster if Sam is allowed to play his natural role. Fisher will look to bounce back to his 2011 form, when he won the Best and Fairest.
Season Rating: 6.5/10
AFL Matches: 15
AFL Goals: 1
AFL Kicks Per Match: 11.9
AFL Hand-passes Per Match: 5.8
AFL Marks Per Match: 6.3 (3rd at St Kilda)
AFL Tackles Per Match: 1.9
AFL Rebound 50s Per Match: 3.1 (3rd at Saints with 5 games minimum)
Sam Fisher’s season was badly effected by a change of roles. The Saints key defender predicament forced Fisher out of his usual position as a rebounding, marking defender into a lock-down centre half-back. This was reflected in his statistics – his disposal and marks numbers were much lower than his previous years – however Fisher was still a vital part of the St Kilda back 6. As a more defensive backman, ‘Chips’ struggled to rack up high possession numbers. This was the first season since 2005 that Sam did not accumulate 100 marks in the Premiership Season. Furthermore, it was the first time since 2004 that Fisher had not completed 50 ‘rebound 50s’ in the year, the same could be said for his disposals, hand passes and kicks tally. Despite these short-comings in the statistical side, Fisher was still extremely highly valued by St Kilda, he was brilliant in stopping many opposition forwards.
2012 was a disappointment for Sam Fisher. The elite defender struggled to shape games with his rebound off half-back due to his different job in the Saints line-up. Fisher will look to free up more in 2013, he could form a brilliant partnership with Sean Dempster if Sam is allowed to play his natural role. Fisher will look to bounce back to his 2011 form, when he won the Best and Fairest.
Season Rating: 6.5/10
That's harsh on Fisher IMO. You say yourself how he did brilliant in stopping key forwards regularly, then say his season was a disappointment. It is natural that playing a more defensive role will result in less attack and rebound. Whilst yes, it wasn't as successful a season as previous years, i think he still had a very good season, shown by his top ten best and fairest finish.
- Aug 25, 2012
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Yes he was very good defensively, and I admit I was harsh judging him. While he was brilliant on a couple of forwards, I judge a lot on comparison to previous years. Missing 7 games didn't help his cause. I would have given him 7-7.5/10, but I feel he could have done better. I feel he has lost the elite title. I mean disappointing as in he just wasn't what I have come to expect of Fisher. Still a solid season though.
Squizz
Brownlow Medallist
- Oct 10, 2007
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I cocked up, and wrote a review on Sammy Fish (when I was meant to do Monty! ).
I'm not wasting it (sorry Rahul).
Sam Fisher #25
After winning the 2011 B&F (his second win, and 6th top 10 finish in a row) and being nominated for Cleo’s bachelor of the year, life was good for Sammy Fish (although not according to his Cleo mugshot!).
Speculation was rife that GWS were looking to poach him, but Sammy Fish declared he wanted to be able to repay the Saints and stay a one-club player.
He duly re-signed until 2014, and then promptly managed to get a bad hamstring injury in Round 6 - keeping him out for 5 games.
He played some different roles this year, which he spoke about:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ho...-north-melbourne/story-fnelctok-1226437098449
“Fisher has taken on and beaten Goodes and Brown in close checking duels (and) ... has relished the role change. Sometimes you end up in the plus-one or loose man in defence, and you might get 20 or 25 possessions, but it is hard to read how you have gone in those games. The thing about playing on guys such as Adam Goodes and Jonathan Brown is that you sort of know when you are coming off the ground whether you have done your job."
Despite only playing 15 games, Fisher again finished in the top 10 of the B&F - a remarkable effort.
He averaged 17.6 possessions and 6.3 marks (with a very high kick to handball ratio).
What can’t the man do??? Possibly sing:
http://t.co/15jOLcNz
For those interested, he also gave an extensive interview in April:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/the-unassuming-king-fisher/story-e6frexx0-1226326272947
Looking forward to him bringing up a fantastic 200 games for the club in 2013 (currently on 182).
).I'm not wasting it (sorry Rahul).
Sam Fisher #25
After winning the 2011 B&F (his second win, and 6th top 10 finish in a row) and being nominated for Cleo’s bachelor of the year, life was good for Sammy Fish (although not according to his Cleo mugshot!).
Speculation was rife that GWS were looking to poach him, but Sammy Fish declared he wanted to be able to repay the Saints and stay a one-club player.
He duly re-signed until 2014, and then promptly managed to get a bad hamstring injury in Round 6 - keeping him out for 5 games.
He played some different roles this year, which he spoke about:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/ho...-north-melbourne/story-fnelctok-1226437098449
“Fisher has taken on and beaten Goodes and Brown in close checking duels (and) ... has relished the role change. Sometimes you end up in the plus-one or loose man in defence, and you might get 20 or 25 possessions, but it is hard to read how you have gone in those games. The thing about playing on guys such as Adam Goodes and Jonathan Brown is that you sort of know when you are coming off the ground whether you have done your job."
Despite only playing 15 games, Fisher again finished in the top 10 of the B&F - a remarkable effort.
He averaged 17.6 possessions and 6.3 marks (with a very high kick to handball ratio).
What can’t the man do??? Possibly sing:
http://t.co/15jOLcNz
For those interested, he also gave an extensive interview in April:
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/afl/the-unassuming-king-fisher/story-e6frexx0-1226326272947
Looking forward to him bringing up a fantastic 200 games for the club in 2013 (currently on 182).
- Aug 25, 2012
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No need to be sorry Squizzy, you said that we were open for multiple reviews anyway.
Squizz
Brownlow Medallist
- Oct 10, 2007
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Leigh Montagna #11
In the pre-season, Monty was awarded life membership at St Kilda:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...d-leigh-montagna/story-e6frepf6-1226306702487
"I'm grateful for all of the opportunities St Kilda has given me over the years," Montagna said. "I'm excited about the fact I'll be a part of the St Kilda football club for the rest of my life."
After finishing 4th in last year's B&F, I felt that 2012 might not see the same performance levels from Monty.
He started the season with only 16 possessions in a surprise loss against Port, and only received votes from the coaches once in the first 11 rounds of the season.
In round 5, Montagna was reported for striking but the club elected to challenge the penalty (risking a 3 week suspension). In the first time under the current tribunal system, the AFL sensationally withdrew the charge before the hearing. The Saints had decided to call James Magner as a witness, despite him leaving the field under the blood rule. The AFL interviewed Magner, who told them that it was an accidental knee as a result of pulling Montagna to the ground! A victory for common sense - not something Saints fans were used to when it came to tribunal matters.
In May, Montagna made it clear that he would not be testing his worth under free agency:
http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=136430
"I'm certainly happy to get mine done sooner rather than later and I think that will start very shortly. I'll be staying at St Kilda," Montagna said. I'm happy at the club and if you want to stay and you want to play, most players get paid accordingly to where they sit amongst the club and I think that's the end of it,"
Despite this he was rumoured in July to be a potential key player under free agency, which was quickly countered by his management:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...th-montagna-over-contract-20120719-22d46.html
Dan Richardson of Elite Sports Properties, last night said of the 28-year-old Saint: ''We're in discussions and, as he's publicly stated, his desire is to stay there.''
In the pre-season, Monty was awarded life membership at St Kilda:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport...d-leigh-montagna/story-e6frepf6-1226306702487
"I'm grateful for all of the opportunities St Kilda has given me over the years," Montagna said. "I'm excited about the fact I'll be a part of the St Kilda football club for the rest of my life."
After finishing 4th in last year's B&F, I felt that 2012 might not see the same performance levels from Monty.
He started the season with only 16 possessions in a surprise loss against Port, and only received votes from the coaches once in the first 11 rounds of the season.
In round 5, Montagna was reported for striking but the club elected to challenge the penalty (risking a 3 week suspension). In the first time under the current tribunal system, the AFL sensationally withdrew the charge before the hearing. The Saints had decided to call James Magner as a witness, despite him leaving the field under the blood rule. The AFL interviewed Magner, who told them that it was an accidental knee as a result of pulling Montagna to the ground! A victory for common sense - not something Saints fans were used to when it came to tribunal matters.
In May, Montagna made it clear that he would not be testing his worth under free agency:
http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=136430
"I'm certainly happy to get mine done sooner rather than later and I think that will start very shortly. I'll be staying at St Kilda," Montagna said. I'm happy at the club and if you want to stay and you want to play, most players get paid accordingly to where they sit amongst the club and I think that's the end of it,"
Despite this he was rumoured in July to be a potential key player under free agency, which was quickly countered by his management:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-ne...th-montagna-over-contract-20120719-22d46.html
Dan Richardson of Elite Sports Properties, last night said of the 28-year-old Saint: ''We're in discussions and, as he's publicly stated, his desire is to stay there.''
His form was strong in the second half of the season, and he received coaches votes in 8 of the last 11 games.
In a storming finish in the B&F, he nearly pipped Lenny Hayes and finished on 121 votes (just 3 behind Hayes).
Montagna played all 22 games and averaged 23.6 possessions. He ranked 4th in contested possessions, 4th in marks, 3rd in tackles, 3rd in clearances, 7th in rebound 50s, easily had the most inside 50s, and was second in goal assists.
He re-signed for a further 2 years late in the season:
“My philosophy right from the start was: If I got an offer from St Kilda which we thought was fair I was always going to stay. I couldn’t bring myself to leave and I wouldn’t want to. I’m happy to finish out my career as a one club player.”
Monty got a one week suspension in the final game for rough conduct, but I'll refrain from making any predictions this time around!
sammm
Premium Platinum
Leigh Montagna #11
He re-signed for a further 2 years late in the season:
http://www.saints.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/5315/newsid/146187/default.aspx
“My philosophy right from the start was: If I got an offer from St Kilda which we thought was fair I was always going to stay. I couldn’t bring myself to leave and I wouldn’t want to. I’m happy to finish out my career as a one club player.”
Someone said either on big footy or saintsational that we signed him for 2 years, but he was wanting 3. Why would we not give him 3?
- Aug 25, 2012
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I think it is similar to BJ (except BJ left) he wanted 3 but since he was getting quite old we wouldn't give him 3 years. That said, he might still have 3 years left in him.
hayes
Brownlow Medallist
He might have three years left, or he might not. 29 at the start of next season so no point risking it.
Persevering Saint
Brownlow Medallist
Because we are no longer a club that gives handouts to "mates" and servants. For better or worse, we are becoming a professional club, where each player is paid on their merits and favoritism is not a factor.
saint_larry
Team Captain
- Aug 16, 2009
- 330
- 148
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- St Kilda
- Other Teams
- Wigan.
JAMES GWILT
Mr Gwilt. Playing every game after his return from a knee reconstruction was a good effort. But, pretty much straight from the get go, he was forced into a role where he’d play on a big forward every other week.
Given the circumstances, wasn’t entirely surprising that his performances this season were well down on previous years. Wasn’t quite up to the pace of the game, wasn’t as grounded in one on one contests as previous years, and gave away numerous free kicks. Really, I think his defensive skills just dropped significantly this year.
And his arms just aren’t long enough.
His greatest asset, the raking long left boot, also didn’t seem to have quite have the same penetration as it once did. Still fairly reliable, but Dempster probably overtook his as the most reliable coming out of the back 50.
His rebound 50 numbers stack up ok; 4 a game, and he averaged a career high 3.4 1% ers a game. Still contributed. BUT.
Will give Gwilts year a 4/10. Next year he should slot back into a back pocket, have a full preseason under his belt, and will be free of any rustiness. Can’t imagine anyone rising up to take his spot (Mitch Brown? )
Mr Gwilt. Playing every game after his return from a knee reconstruction was a good effort. But, pretty much straight from the get go, he was forced into a role where he’d play on a big forward every other week.
Given the circumstances, wasn’t entirely surprising that his performances this season were well down on previous years. Wasn’t quite up to the pace of the game, wasn’t as grounded in one on one contests as previous years, and gave away numerous free kicks. Really, I think his defensive skills just dropped significantly this year.
And his arms just aren’t long enough.
His greatest asset, the raking long left boot, also didn’t seem to have quite have the same penetration as it once did. Still fairly reliable, but Dempster probably overtook his as the most reliable coming out of the back 50.
His rebound 50 numbers stack up ok; 4 a game, and he averaged a career high 3.4 1% ers a game. Still contributed. BUT.
Will give Gwilts year a 4/10. Next year he should slot back into a back pocket, have a full preseason under his belt, and will be free of any rustiness. Can’t imagine anyone rising up to take his spot (Mitch Brown? )
2 points for AussieThunda re Tom Ledger/
1. What rating out of ten?
2. He did not play 4 games in 2012.
1. What rating out of ten?
2. He did not play 4 games in 2012.
stkildathunda
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St Kilda Saints - Tom Ledger 2012 Player Sponsor
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- Thread starter
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???????????
I'm half way through Big Borderline Bad Beau's review
Beau Wilkes
2012 was a year of mixed emotions for the man with the "well lived in head".This time last year Beau Wilkes was preparing for life after football. That changed when his was called out (surprisingly to most) at pick 68 for St Kilda. Playing primarily as a defender for West Coast Wilkes was delisted at the end of 2010 after being rookie listed 3 times. He went on to kick over 40 goals in a season at full forward for Claremont in the WAFL. Clearly this impressed former West Coast player and new Saints coach Scott Watters enough to give him a fourth chance.
Wilkes kicked 8 goals in 2 games for Sandringham up forward at the start of the year, and was named as an emergency for St Kilda in rounds 3 and 4 before finally getting a senior call up in round 5. Wilkes kicked 2 goals in the first quarter, along with 1 in the third quarter (taking a hanger or two along the way) before surprisingly being subbed out of the game. Watters had this to say: "...he takes a mark 55m out ... so we tried to reverse the call at that point. But unfortunately the paper work had gone in. Once the call had been made, it was difficult (to change)."
Dropped the following week, Beau found it hard to find a consistent place in the 22. Trialed as a defender against his former team West Coast, he perhaps showed why he was delisted as one. It wasn't until round 20 that Wilkes had a consistent string of games, staying in the side until the end of the season. That game (his second against Melbourne) was perhaps the best of his career to date. With Nick Riewoldt going down with injury early in the game, Wilkes excelled as the team's main target, amassing 17 touches, 12 marks, and kicking 5 goals straight.
Overall Wilkes showed promise this year, hopefully in 2013 he can get a consistent run at it and become the intimidating presence up forward we've lacked since Fraser Gehrig retired.
Season Rating: 7/10
