Skills the tactics of tackling in AFL, as against NRL.
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Covertackle
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I recently attended a seminar on Physical Presence as part of my Level 2 AFL Accreditation. It was a fantatsic night hosted by one of WA finest physical presence and AFL?WAFL tackling coaches dr. Les Fabre.
Head over to this link and see the presentation. http://www.drfabre.com.au/presentations/physical_presence/pages/slide01.htm
I think it has all the components of what you are looking for in teaching tackling.
Head over to this link and see the presentation. http://www.drfabre.com.au/presentations/physical_presence/pages/slide01.htm
I think it has all the components of what you are looking for in teaching tackling.
Covertackle
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i had a look at the first few pages. its a pretty good start. but i would advise, that as RL for juniors is played on a sunday, and AFL for juniors is played on a saturday, i would have my kid play RL as well as AFL until the age of 11. the age of 11 is when you can start tackling in AFL.
it is then you move to AFL only.
then you just sit back and watch the shock.....
nothing prepares you for tackling or collision like rugby league. most kids dont EVER become real good tacklers. some become excellent in 2 seasons. but all you need to learn is proficiency and safety, and RL will prepare a child for that very quickly. an excellent tackler will have learned great skills in 2 seasons. some wont ever put their body on the line. its not to do with size either. but give a boy 4 years in RL, it will have him streets ahead of AUSKICK kids who've never been hit.
the cream will always rise, but learning collision and tackling early, is an advantage.
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Agree with you there,but the rest of your suggestion risks burn out for the majority of kids.
tackling isn't that hard to learn it's more about desire.
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Covertackle
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in my opinion, 1 hour of day of exercise and 40 mins on sat and sun doesnt risk burnout. it gets em off the lounge.....
and then theres summer...
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Agreed, for the normal kid, but I'm talking about the kid who takes football seriously as a possible career path and playing that much extra to improve your tackling IMO is taking things seriously.
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Covertackle
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im not sure how 'much extra' you are concerned about. firstly theres the game per week (RL) that will give a boy the experience like no other method. (for nearly 5 months.)
but before he plays his first game of RL, a boy would usually have 5 training sessions, which some would involve tackling and tackling safely, before his first game. that would differ from club to club, coach to coach.
thats only where the learning begins, but a total of one hour per week, or two half hour sessions of pure tackle practice would be the norm for kids during a junior RL season.
some kids are stand out thoroughbreds and excell in any sporting activity and will take up tackling with a passion, as they 'get it'; ie, they learn quickly and properly, and love the contact. other kids may never 'get it' at all, and are just not sporting types. the kids in the middle learn with time.
i still contend that any kid that wants to learn tackling and contact early, will learn it in RL earlier than in AFL, as in AFL (in QLD) they cant tackle till age 11...(i think officially its age 12!!!) but in RL they start in u6's....like my daughter did. last season she played u7s. she played against matt haydons boy. girls can compete with the boys very well till the u12s.
for example, 4 boys from our u12s side won scholarships to a school for RL excellence. a wynnum development program. however, it was said by a zone official that one of the girls in the side would have been chosen INSTEAD of the boys had she been eligable (girls stop competing with boys after 12yo). she is the image of greg inglis. big, rangy, fast, indienous, and a pretty girl. she will go on and play for the aus womens side one day i have no doubt.
kids looking at AFL as a career path would be proven to be usefull by 8 or 9 yo. so a couple of years in RL wont hurt them.... they only play other kids, not monsters or anything....lol
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Covertackle
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if you believe 1 hour a day of exercise is too much for kids in your opinion, i suggest you do some research. child obesity is epidemic. it is your type of thinking that is contributing to the problem.
1 hour against your brothers in the back yard, or 1 hour of structured skills training. no difference in heart rate, or injury. where are you coming from? you got nothing but objections. certainly nothing scientific.
google overtraining kids. you'll be amazed at how far off the mark you are.
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- #36
I'm talking the cumulative effect over years and not neccesarily physical burnout but mental burnout especially wrt excessively pushy parents.
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Covertackle
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if pushy parents are ones that push em off the lounge to go do something, im guilty.
as for physical cumulative effect, you obviously didnt google or researched like i suggested. here, i'll help you "
and....
so my boy does under 6 hours per week...and you recon thats too much. as ive told you. do some research. no one cares about your kids more than you. no one cares more about my kids than me. the difference between you and me is, ive done my research.
as for psycological effect; that would be a case by case proposition. during footy season my boy trains 4 days per work week, and plays afl on sat and rl on sun.
of the 4 days, the training he enjoys most, is the AFL training with boys 2 years older than him....it is also easily the hardest.
junior AFL has 3 zones. a 40 minute game. the ball is in each zone an average of 13mins per game. 8 boys to share the zone and the ball for 13 minutes....and no tackle. id call that a walk in the park, not a game of footy. AFL qld are in fairyland when it comes to their juniors. if you wanna call that a game of footy, ok...
on sundays he plays RL. 40 minutes. averages 15 'first in' tackles, averages 7 runs with the ball and 3 tries per game. i know, ive got the stats. im his coach.
ask him which game he likes best..."rugby league". so psycologically, he likes the hardest training, and likes the toughest game.
youve been 'owned' mate.
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- #38
I don't need to. I've been associated with sport for a very long time and seen it first hand.
Again, it's not the physical demands which you continually rabbit on about.
WE even had a dad like you. Said exactly the same things (except it was RU).
Annedotal evidence is not much to go by but in this case his son dropped out out from sport.
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Most kids I know who've gone anywhere in sport were playing at least 2 or 3 sports or grades until their mid teens... be that footy/cricket winter/summer & basketball year-round... or juniors + seniors footy & cricket... or 3-4 games of basketball a week.
No burn outs...
It's only when schoolwork gets serious as well, that things change & decisions need to be made.
No burn outs...
It's only when schoolwork gets serious as well, that things change & decisions need to be made.
Covertackle
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i agree. actually playing different sports creates new pathways in the brain. there is some stuff about it on the net. it actually helps with learning, hence improved grades at school.
my boy plays both codes in the winter. now, in the off season he is playing basketball, little athletics and martial arts. it adds up to 3 days a week, no 'training' involved. but its important to keep kids active as the scientific evidence ive produced proves.
all kids have their likes and dislikes regarding sport. mostly they will play anything. but as a parent you just understand what is suitable for your child and give them opportunity. always look to see them grow confidence, and always encourage them to be the best 'they' can be. if you accept mediocrity, that is what they will give you. kids try and please you, so i always try to have them be the best they can, and always be supportive of an effort, dont degrade an effort.
ive made my mistakes, but i research these things, as school doesnt prepare you to be a parent...
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- #41
You've seen no burnouts but offering a reason why they occur?
I've seen burnout and IMO it occurs when a person puts unrealistic expectations upon themself, whether self induced or put there by parents.
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Covertackle
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- #42
no. he was saying that school gets in the way of an active training schedule. i can understand why he didnt bother to sort you out.
you seem to have a problem with parents who may have recognised talent in their child and are supporting it. unless you can come up with some science to suggest playing many different sport, often, is bad for them, then give up.
do you know anything about tackling....at all?
Covertackle
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- #43
ive been meaning to post something that i saw on tele early one morning.
i think it was something like 4-5am in the morning on ch73 a replay of the WAFL grand final was telecast.
it was an elite game of footy, with many of the players having had a taste of AFL at the top level aparently. what impressed me most in the game happened in the 4th quarter.
a player, perhaps he was on the wing or front pocket was getting around ok, playing his role and seemed at no disadvatage. his knee was strapped but it didnt seem to bother him at all.
he recieved the ball, took a run, and an opposition player hit him with a beautiful RL style tackle at about chest height. the tackler went in shoulder first, and drove him into the groud. it was good enough to make a RL tackle highlight reel. the player lost the ball, stayed on the groud in shock, and was eventually helped to his feet and taken from the field.
the thing is, i see opportunities in AFL for players to make that sort of tackle all the time, but they dont. instead they wrap their arms around a player and try to throw him to the ground. ol mate in the WAFL proved what is the more effective tactic. tackle properly, stun you opponent, loosten the ball, and create a bit of agression to lift your team mates.
anyway. it was an excellent tackle by any standards. there might be something on youtube i can dig up about it...
i think it was something like 4-5am in the morning on ch73 a replay of the WAFL grand final was telecast.
it was an elite game of footy, with many of the players having had a taste of AFL at the top level aparently. what impressed me most in the game happened in the 4th quarter.
a player, perhaps he was on the wing or front pocket was getting around ok, playing his role and seemed at no disadvatage. his knee was strapped but it didnt seem to bother him at all.
he recieved the ball, took a run, and an opposition player hit him with a beautiful RL style tackle at about chest height. the tackler went in shoulder first, and drove him into the groud. it was good enough to make a RL tackle highlight reel. the player lost the ball, stayed on the groud in shock, and was eventually helped to his feet and taken from the field.
the thing is, i see opportunities in AFL for players to make that sort of tackle all the time, but they dont. instead they wrap their arms around a player and try to throw him to the ground. ol mate in the WAFL proved what is the more effective tactic. tackle properly, stun you opponent, loosten the ball, and create a bit of agression to lift your team mates.
anyway. it was an excellent tackle by any standards. there might be something on youtube i can dig up about it...
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- #44
Yes, school can definitely add to the pressures of what I said.
"I've seen burnout and IMO it occurs when a person puts unrealistic expectations upon themself, whether self induced or put there by parents".
As I said, I switched to RU and picked tackling easily and was the best on the team for tackling.
I don't know what my tackling ability has to do with my knowledge of burnout.
You two seem to say that there is absolutely no risk of burnout. From what has been presented to the forum I would say say there is a chance of it from observing players in just one sport. The fact that you don't recognise the dangers of burnout suggest it is a possibility.
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Covertackle
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- #45
um, tackling is the thread title....not child burnout.
youve been given scientific evidence that shows that more sports and more hours persuing them are better for a childs physical and mental development.
im not going to try an educate a denier. so stick to the topic. tackling.
and if you say you found tackling easy etc, etc, id say you are full of s**t.
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- #46
And I have said sport is good. You don't seem to be aware there can be too much, not so much in a physical sense but an emotional sense causing burnout. It's not common. You might not have seen any evidence but I have seen burnout in a single sport player.
Well I found tackling relatively easy. What's to it? Wrap your arms around a guy.
It's not like kicking that needs power and precision.
It's not like marking that needs, judgement, strength and commitment.
Even handballing properly is a harder skill to master.
You might have found tackling hard but I didn't !!!
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Covertackle
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- #47
excellent.
youve exposed yourself as not knowing the basics of tackling.
1. no. you always make contact with the shoulder first whilst driving with the legs, as you embrace with your arms last.
2. yes it is. it does require power and precision. you need to put your head in the correct place at speed which takes precision, and power to drive an oppponent to halt their momentum.
3. yes it does. you must commit with the correct shoulder. you must get your head in the right place which takes judgement, as does thhe area of where you hit a player, you also need the strength for the hit, hold and drive a player, and ESPECIALLY the commitment to take the impact of a player sometime much bigger than you.
4. no its not. all the boys in my childs AFL team can handball well for their age. i doubt half of them would ever master tackling to an acceptable level.
you have never tackled properly. i doubt youever played senior football of any kind.
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- #48
You seem to know everything.
I found tackling easy. I was good at it and played RU and rl.
If you want to see what's hard and what's not you have to go to where the skills are unfamiliar.
I've seen quite a number of overseas Australian Football teams in action and I've seen what they do well and what they don't do well.
Generally overseas players don't handball well. It's not that difficult in theory but for some reason overseas players don't get the hang of it. Overseas players don't kick with the same consistancy, length and accuracy of Australians but they can kick proportional to their exposure to the game. Generally marking lacks a little confidence but overseas players have grasped that skill. Australian Football overseas seems to attract players after the physical experince and generally tackling is quite exuberant. Surprisingly, most converts are from a soccer background not a RU background. They might not have followed the tn 101 school of tackling but they were very effective.
Covertackle
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- #49
1. no. but i do know my topic.
2. reading what youve written, you tackle with your arms, which is a childish bad habit, yet say you were the best tackler in the team. you say you were good at it and played both RL and RU, yet you dont even know the basics. you could have googled, read a bit about technique and been more convincing.
you dont fool me at all. mate youve never played the game.
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- #50
What's so hard to believe?
Tackling is not that hard as I said it is more about desire.
