Opinion End of 2014 ladder

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LicoriceAllsorts said:
Other than Yeo who played a majority of the games, and Longer who played as a back up ruckman when needed, the others would have played a hand full of games each if not between them over the year
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They were all early draft picks. You need to prepare yourself for a bad year. Hopes of 9th will only bring about disappointment.
 

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LicoriceAllsorts said:
Clearly, but why does them leaving make such a huge on field difference?
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Because you lost 1st and 2nd round picks that should push into your best 22 - at a minimum good depth players. You now have a hole in your list.

Also who is going to kick your goals - Brown is in his last year and there is not much help for him. I think you are in big trouble. But it is the off season and most supporters are up beat about their teams chances. Put me down for 8 wins.
 
Wild Bill said:
Because you lost 1st and 2nd round picks that should push into your best 22 - at a minimum good depth players. You now have a hole in your list.

Also who is going to kick your goals - Brown is in his last year and there is not much help for him. I think you are in big trouble. But it is the off season and most supporters are up beat about their teams chances. Put me down for 8 wins.
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The same players who kicked them last year
 
LicoriceAllsorts said:
Of the players who left:

2013:

Jared Polec - 1 game
Billy Longer - 4 games
Sam Docherty - 13 games
Elliot Yeo - 19 games
Patrick Karnezis - 3 games

Only one player on that list was constantly in the team, however Docherty was in his first year so a good effort
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Who rucks if Leuey goes down? Name your leading goal kickers of 2013. You have lost a group of 1st and 2nd rounders. It has to hurt.

There are only 3 teams shorter for the spoon. Betting agencies don't have bias.
 
Wild Bill said:
Who rucks if Leuey goes down? Name your leading goal kickers of 2013. You have lost a group of 1st and 2nd rounders. It has to hurt.

There are only 3 teams shorter for the spoon. Betting agencies don't have bias.
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Lisle, Michael, Martin

Brown
Zorko
Green
Staker
McGrath

Above those 3 teams there is 5 teams who could finish anywhere
 
LicoriceAllsorts said:
Lisle, Michael, Martin

Brown
Zorko
Green
Staker
McGrath

Above those 3 teams there is 5 teams who could finish anywhere
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West wouldn't ruck if Leuey went down? If you're relying on Lisle, Michael and Martin to ruck, then you're in a lot of trouble.

And if you're relying on Brown and McGrath to kick a lot of goals then likewise.

The fact is that it will hurt you over the next few years due to the loss of your younger ones that had already had a bit of development, and it will hurt if you get a lot of injuries and you have to throw in the 1st year players.
 

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timtamWB said:
West wouldn't ruck if Leuey went down? If you're relying on Lisle, Michael and Martin to ruck, then you're in a lot of trouble.

And if you're relying on Brown and McGrath to kick a lot of goals then likewise.

The fact is that it will hurt you over the next few years due to the loss of your younger ones that had already had a bit of development, and it will hurt if you get a lot of injuries and you have to throw in the 1st year players.
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Definitely, Michael could be a good player but is too young still. Lisle would only be in there because he is playing forward
 
Hawthorn
Geelong
North Melbourne
Sydney

Fremantle
Essendon
Adelaide
Gold Coast

Collingwood
Richmond
Carlton
Port Adelaide

Western Bulldogs
West Coast
Melbourne
Brisbane
GWS
St.Kilda


9-12 are the teams I can see making the 8 that I excluded. 13-18 not going anywhere.

Collingwood at 9th could well be them bottoming out for one year that youth gets a real go.

Richmond won't surpass last year's effort I don't think.

Carlton who knows? Port have a quality future but I feel over achieved. 2015 they'll push top 4.

Geelong could leave the 8 for all I know. But I haven't written them off once since 2007 and make sure to chuckle and mock the "experts" who claim they're cooked. It was over way back in 2010, apparently.


I don't know jack, but that's my guess.
 
Sick of this bullshit about Collingwood's "youth" players getting a go and having a re-development year and missing the eight. We still probably have a better shot at finals than Richmond and North Melbourne. With the inclusion of Jesse White and the off-season improvements of Quinten Lynch, Ben Reid will be put in defence again where he should be. We also have Karnezis/Scharenberg to narrowly fill the hole of Heath Shaw. Defence should be alright. We can always put Lynch back as well to be with Maxwell and Reid, kind of like what Malthouse did for Leon Davis (2011 All-Australian Half-Back Defender)

In the midfield, we still have Swan and Pendlebury in career-high form along with Ball, Sidebottom and Beams who are also still at their heights. Clinton Young should be getting games this year and Taylor Adams will fill Dale Thomas' hole. We still probably have the best midfield in the competition. We also have Jarryd Blair and Nathan Freeman.

In the forward line, Cloke is in the box seat for a Coleman Medal, along with Jesse White/Quinten Lynch at full forward. Tyson Goldsack will be finally fit, Fasolo as well. The flanks and pockets are no problem, Elliott, Macaffer, Dwyer, Kennedy, Sinclair, Freeman, Adams, Blair and Armstrong will all get their go.

The ruck may be a struggle for parts of the season but we don't have the worst ruck, Brodie Grundy was firing in his 7 games last year and with Keefe, White and Witts, that shouldn't be a major problem.

I believe Collingwood with what they have can still be a Top 4 side, but if they lose games like they did last year (Port Adelaide, Gold Coast), then that is a major problem. Consistency is a something that needs to be worked on.
 
adammania9 said:
Sick of this bullshit about Collingwood's "youth" players getting a go and having a re-development year and missing the eight. We still probably have a better shot at finals than Richmond and North Melbourne. With the inclusion of Jesse White and the off-season improvements of Quinten Lynch, Ben Reid will be put in defence again where he should be. We also have Karnezis/Scharenberg to narrowly fill the hole of Heath Shaw. Defence should be alright. We can always put Lynch back as well to be with Maxwell and Reid, kind of like what Malthouse did for Leon Davis (2011 All-Australian Half-Back Defender)

In the midfield, we still have Swan and Pendlebury in career-high form along with Ball, Sidebottom and Beams who are also still at their heights. Clinton Young should be getting games this year and Taylor Adams will fill Dale Thomas' hole. We still probably have the best midfield in the competition. We also have Jarryd Blair and Nathan Freeman.

In the forward line, Cloke is in the box seat for a Coleman Medal, along with Jesse White/Quinten Lynch at full forward. Tyson Goldsack will be finally fit, Fasolo as well. The flanks and pockets are no problem, Elliott, Macaffer, Dwyer, Kennedy, Sinclair, Freeman, Adams, Blair and Armstrong will all get their go.

The ruck may be a struggle for parts of the season but we don't have the worst ruck, Brodie Grundy was firing in his 7 games last year and with Keefe, White and Witts, that shouldn't be a major problem.

I believe Collingwood with what they have can still be a Top 4 side, but if they lose games like they did last year (Port Adelaide, Gold Coast), then that is a major problem. Consistency is a something that needs to be worked on.
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Why would Lynch improve over the off-season? He's not exactly a young player. Karnezis isn't a defender, and he's not that good at AFL level anyway. Scharenberg is injured for the first half of the year. Who knows how Young or Freeman will go, both could easily not fit into your team.

Forward line doesn't look bad if White can translate his NAB form, or Lynch can actually get into form at AFL level and one can play the Dawes role.

Grundy will not be consistent at all, and the ruck will struggle for you, because they all are inexperienced, or just not that good.

You also don't have the easiest draw out there, North and Richmond both have easier draws. I doubt you can be a top 4 side this year, but you should make the 8.
 
Collingwood's Backline will be up there as one of the worst this season

I saw a supposed best casr scenario backline on the Collingwood board that went something like

Toovey, Keefe, Maxwell
Williams, Brown, Seedsman

With Reid moving forward, Shaw being traded abd Maxwell continuing to be an awful footballer that Backline is now one of the weakest in the competition.

I feel Collingwoods midfield and forward elites are still the cream of the crop but their 15-25 range is too young or too poor to do anything this season.

Grundy cannot be expected to hold the number 1 ruck postion all year and that combined with a poor defence will mean conceeding a lot of goals.

Collingwood as always will score highly as well but they will be on the wrong side of big scores a lot this year.

As always with Collingwood though I think we will see them continue to trade away talent to further plummet themselves down the ladder for one maybe two seasons tops before their youth they have stockpiled gets going
 
Fremantle
Essendon
North
Richmond
Geelong
Hawthorn
Carlton
Port
Sydney
Collingwood
West Coast
Suns
Adelaide
Bulldogs
GWS
Melbourne
Brisbane
Saints
 
adammania9 said:
Sick of this bullshit about Collingwood's "youth" players getting a go and having a re-development year and missing the eight. We still probably have a better shot at finals than Richmond and North Melbourne. With the inclusion of Jesse White and the off-season improvements of Quinten Lynch, Ben Reid will be put in defence again where he should be. We also have Karnezis/Scharenberg to narrowly fill the hole of Heath Shaw. Defence should be alright. We can always put Lynch back as well to be with Maxwell and Reid, kind of like what Malthouse did for Leon Davis (2011 All-Australian Half-Back Defender)
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That would concern me if you planning on playing him back. He is a reasonable forward who could turn into something good. The reason he never played last year was he puts in zero defensive effort. Also how much of this year is Scherenberg going to miss? Will be great in the future but I doubt he will have much impact this year. Williams will probably not play (pending court case) so Im not really sure who will play off the back line for you.

That said the midfield and forward lines are still very good and you are still a good chance to play finals again
 
FlowersByIrene said:
Collingwood's Backline will be up there as one of the worst this season

I saw a supposed best casr scenario backline on the Collingwood board that went something like

Toovey, Keefe, Maxwell
Williams, Brown, Seedsman

With Reid moving forward, Shaw being traded abd Maxwell continuing to be an awful footballer that Backline is now one of the weakest in the competition.

I feel Collingwoods midfield and forward elites are still the cream of the crop but their 15-25 range is too young or too poor to do anything this season.

Grundy cannot be expected to hold the number 1 ruck postion all year and that combined with a poor defence will mean conceeding a lot of goals.

Collingwood as always will score highly as well but they will be on the wrong side of big scores a lot this year.

As always with Collingwood though I think we will see them continue to trade away talent to further plummet themselves down the ladder for one maybe two seasons tops before their youth they have stockpiled gets going
Click to expand...

Ben Reid will move back to full back/centre half-back as we have recruited White and also have Goldsack and Lynch. Another thing that gives me the shits is when peopel call Maxwell an awful footballer. He isn't paid to get disposals ro a good SuperCoach score, he gets paid to block out defenders which he has been doing successfully for the last 5 years.

I do agree with that ending though, large scores will be scores and conceded all season. But Reid should be a massive addition and you also left O'Brien out of that back-line. Seedsman won't play more than 10 games and Williams won't play all season on that note. Hopefully, Lynch could be sent back or we could give Seedsman more time.
 
KissKiss said:
That would concern me if you planning on playing him back. He is a reasonable forward who could turn into something good. The reason he never played last year was he puts in zero defensive effort. Also how much of this year is Scherenberg going to miss? Will be great in the future but I doubt he will have much impact this year. Williams will probably not play (pending court case) so Im not really sure who will play off the back line for you.

That said the midfield and forward lines are still very good and you are still a good chance to play finals again
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I actually apologise, when writing that, I must have been thinking of someone like Niall McKeever.
 
adammania9 said:
Ben Reid will move back to full back/centre half-back as we have recruited White and also have Goldsack and Lynch. Another thing that gives me the shits is when peopel call Maxwell an awful footballer. He isn't paid to get disposals ro a good SuperCoach score, he gets paid to block out defenders which he has been doing successfully for the last 5 years.

I do agree with that ending though, large scores will be scores and conceded all season. But Reid should be a massive addition and you also left O'Brien out of that back-line. Seedsman won't play more than 10 games and Williams won't play all season on that note. Hopefully, Lynch could be sent back or we could give Seedsman more time.
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Reid will definitely play forward, and Seedsman will play every game after he is back from injury. O'Brien now plays on the wing, and Lynch would be woeful as a defender.

FlowersByIrene said:
Collingwood's Backline will be up there as one of the worst this season

I saw a supposed best casr scenario backline on the Collingwood board that went something like

Toovey, Keefe, Maxwell
Williams, Brown, Seedsman

With Reid moving forward, Shaw being traded abd Maxwell continuing to be an awful footballer that Backline is now one of the weakest in the competition.

I feel Collingwoods midfield and forward elites are still the cream of the crop but their 15-25 range is too young or too poor to do anything this season.

Grundy cannot be expected to hold the number 1 ruck postion all year and that combined with a poor defence will mean conceeding a lot of goals.

Collingwood as always will score highly as well but they will be on the wrong side of big scores a lot this year.

As always with Collingwood though I think we will see them continue to trade away talent to further plummet themselves down the ladder for one maybe two seasons tops before their youth they have stockpiled gets going
Click to expand...
I agree that our backline isn't great, but apart from Maxwell they are all capable of playing good football, but the problem is getting enough experience in them playing as a unit to reach that level.

B: Fasolo - Brown - Toovey
HB: Maxwell - Keefe – Sinclair

In Round 1, due to the absence of Williams and Seedsman we will bring in Sinclair and Fasolo who are both capable defenders.

Fasolo has only been tested in the backline minimally, but his skills really transitioned well, which will hopefully come in handy against Fremantle's small forwards.

Sinclair took a massive step in his career transitioning from forwardline to backline last season, but in the end it really paid off, and he took over a massive role as a running half-back in the latter half of the season.

We will also have Langdon our new recruit. He has played in both of the NAB Challenge games and has demonstrated great skills and footy smarts for a 19 year old, so he will probably be starting on the bench or as a sub.

After Maxwell reaches 200 games in Round 2 (Unless he suddenly gets good) he will be dropped permanently for one of those I've just mentioned, and Seedsman should be back from injury and be slotted straight into the side.

Barring injury, our lineup should remain the same until Round 6. If Marley doesn't get jail time he will be back in for Anzac Day unless Sinclair/Fas get better than him in that time, if that is the case he will play VFL until the selection panel deem fit to put him back in.

All in all, our backline isn't terrible, but inexperienced, and somewhat underrated. It is still capable of holding up it's own against quite a few teams and I wouldn't be surprised if some of our predicted smashing are quite a lot closer than many would suggest.

Even with those positives, our team isn't perfect. Grundy will struggle to ruck out the entire season, which will probably bring us to promote Hudson or give Witts a go, which I'm not sure he is ready for.

Our kicking accuracy is still a problem, but from what we've seen in the NAB Challenge we have made steps to fix that. Cloke and Reid kicked 8.1 between them against Richmond, and until the flood of Richmond goals came we were 1.10.2.

To what you have said about us trading away our talent, I (And most of the Collingwood board) believe that 2013/14 are our rebuilding years, so if we expect to be challenging for the flag after that trading away any more good players would be stupid. And even though we consider 2014 to be a rebuild year we still expect to finish top 6, which I believe is a definite.

tl;dr: Backline not as bad as it seems, Collingwood will be top 8 while retaining good players.
 
GutsyBug said:
Reid will definitely play forward, and Seedsman will play every game after he is back from injury. O'Brien now plays on the wing, and Lynch would be woeful as a defender.


I agree that our backline isn't great, but apart from Maxwell they are all capable of playing good football, but the problem is getting enough experience in them playing as a unit to reach that level.

B: Fasolo - Brown - Toovey
HB: Maxwell - Keefe – Sinclair

In Round 1, due to the absence of Williams and Seedsman we will bring in Sinclair and Fasolo who are both capable defenders.

Fasolo has only been tested in the backline minimally, but his skills really transitioned well, which will hopefully come in handy against Fremantle's small forwards.

Sinclair took a massive step in his career transitioning from forwardline to backline last season, but in the end it really paid off, and he took over a massive role as a running half-back in the latter half of the season.

We will also have Langdon our new recruit. He has played in both of the NAB Challenge games and has demonstrated great skills and footy smarts for a 19 year old, so he will probably be starting on the bench or as a sub.

After Maxwell reaches 200 games in Round 2 (Unless he suddenly gets good) he will be dropped permanently for one of those I've just mentioned, and Seedsman should be back from injury and be slotted straight into the side.

Barring injury, our lineup should remain the same until Round 6. If Marley doesn't get jail time he will be back in for Anzac Day unless Sinclair/Fas get better than him in that time, if that is the case he will play VFL until the selection panel deem fit to put him back in.

All in all, our backline isn't terrible, but inexperienced, and somewhat underrated. It is still capable of holding up it's own against quite a few teams and I wouldn't be surprised if some of our predicted smashing are quite a lot closer than many would suggest.

Even with those positives, our team isn't perfect. Grundy will struggle to ruck out the entire season, which will probably bring us to promote Hudson or give Witts a go, which I'm not sure he is ready for.

Our kicking accuracy is still a problem, but from what we've seen in the NAB Challenge we have made steps to fix that. Cloke and Reid kicked 8.1 between them against Richmond, and until the flood of Richmond goals came we were 1.10.2.

To what you have said about us trading away our talent, I (And most of the Collingwood board) believe that 2013/14 are our rebuilding years, so if we expect to be challenging for the flag after that trading away any more good players would be stupid. And even though we consider 2014 to be a rebuild year we still expect to finish top 6, which I believe is a definite.

tl;dr: Backline not as bad as it seems, Collingwood will be top 8 while retaining good players.
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If Bucks is going to play Reid forward and O'Brien in the midfield then he is one ******* idiot.

Backs: Toovey - Brown - Seedsman
Half-Backs: O'Brien - Reid - Maxwell
Centre: Adams - Ball - Beams
Half-Forward: Sidebottom - Cloke - Goldsack
Forward: Blair - White - Elliott
Ruck/Followers: Grundy - Swan - Pendlebury
Interchange: Fasolo - Keefe - Young - Kennedy

That should be your best 22 in 2014. Not too sure about Dwyer or Clarke, whether they will make it.
 
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