2014 Potential Draftee and Trade Watch

[Pivo]

Piv , I just trimmed all your questions , most have hit the spot....

another? Well firstly I have not forgotten that we have Toohey and although he may have rucked a bit in TAC I doubt he will ruck much in VFL/AFL (unless im mistaken but thats the way I see it). He was basically recruited as a long term back .

Definitely a back but does have the size (and I believe the athleticism) to act as a second ruck if the need arises (or we want to try something different).

I know we don't like to discuss it but Hawkins spent some time in the ruck before he became more consistent.

Walker is, against all evidence, being used as a ruckman at times.

I think everyone agrees that Vardy looks more natural as a forward yet rucks.

Toohey's go might not be as a ruckman, nor am I calling for it, but lets not dismiss it out of hand.

Just like last year I have a concern about ruck backup and thats why I mentioned Darcy Fort / Darcy Cameron. Yes we have lost our CHF in Vardy but we have lost or 3rd ruck as well. In the post quoted , I stated Ruck/KPP player thinking someone who could play ruck and KP but perhaps I should have also stated if it was just Rookie ruck I would have been happy. We luckily covered it last year thru West and Rookie Blitz , and my concern is we seem to have gambled it again. Just like we did with Hartman , we have recruited a player who will not be a realistic selection option for sometime. Bates who may end up being a huge win but as I see it , its a big roll of the dice to put a sub 180 player on our rookie list instead of grabbing a long term ruck option , perhaps one that can play both roles as most ruck have to now.

I understand the concern but Blicavs becomes the 3rd in line, well I think he does, since Vardy went down.

I have to think that since that is where Blicavs played last year.

With us moving West should we have rookied a ruck? Perhaps but it could be argued that we already had a "ruckman" on the rookie list in Blicavs.

But you mean a genuine ruckman. Maybe that would have been more prudent but we did have this discussion last year around the rookie draft. Is a guy taken last in the rookie draft really expected to do much?

Is some 18 year old kid likely to do that much better than Blicavs or Walker?

A lot of people didn't think Grundy would be much chop in his first year and he was a first round selection.

And let's not forget something you mentioned...

I named For and Cameron. Cameron probably is a long term ruck similar to Simpson but how does it hurt. My guess is we could name several rucks that have been passed over as long term development or mature Rookie types , and they would give us a bailout if worst comes to worst rather than playing Walker or whoever out of position. I remember the name Scott Jones at draft time but there must have been someone on this list that was an a legit option option , http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-09-18/big-boys-head-to-combine

Guys can only stay on the rookie list for 3 years. That's 25% of your rookie spots basically being put aside for a contingency. Perhaps that is the way the list should be used but that seems a heavy investment for just a bail out.

Mids develop quicker so that is probably why they are usually preferred on the rookie list considering the time frame.

How long was West on our list?

Simpson?

I think this just adds to my belief that the rookie list has had its time. Extend the main list by 3 or 4 and just have the Cat. B list for guys like Blicavs and Luxford.

I certainly understand your thinking (it is pretty logical) but I'll still maintain you can't manage your list based on "what ifs" and "in case of emergency" scenarios.

Losing Vardy and Kersten is a bit of a blow, mainly because it robs them the chance to get experience.

However, neither of them should have been viewed as "great white hopes" for 2014.

Vardy's career averages are almost the same as Walker's in twice as many games.

Kersten hasn't even debuted yet.

Them being injured obviously hurts our depth but not, I believe, our chances. With no disrespect to those guys, they were still bit players at this stage. Brown might finally announce himself as he'll get an extended run. Walker might finally translate some of his handy VFL form into the seniors with a consistent run at it.

Right now we just don't know what is going to happen. Brown and Walker might surprise...or they might bomb but let's wait and see.

The bigger issue is Vardy missing another year of footy while Kersten misses a big chunk at the start of the year. We are starting to get a group of guys with "lost years".

Brown, Menzel, Cowan, Vardy & Kersten have all missed big chunks of their apprenticeships and that is the thing that might/is going to hurts us.

 

[The rabbi]

Care to name someone you would sell the farm for...? There will be good to handy no doubt but if they were guns wouldn't they be playing? Normally thats true but I wonder if the the creation up there truly will deprive a kid of immense potential the chance to shine. Could there be someone better than kid getting games at other clubs?

No, not necessarily if they have a kid in front of them in a key position. I remember when Richmond was a gun side (you may be too youthful) and Brian Taylor was a very good forward but had the misfortune of being in the same side as Michael Roach. Taylor kicked 156 goals in 43 games at Richmond. He was left out of the 1980 Grand final Team. Starved for opportunities he left the Tigers for the Pies and won the Coleman medal in 1986 kicking 100 goals.

I would have loved him at Geelong at the time as we had a gun backline and the forward line was a weakness.

The rabbi said: ↑
Agreed, there will be some absolute gun kids playing second fiddle at GWS and GC who would walk into other clubs in a season or two (implies in the future). They may see a better future elsewhere and clubs will oblige by talking to these kids with cheque books open.

And to answer your question. I would not sell the farm for anyone.
But you may have to part with a player to get the player required to fill an obvious hole. For an example, the way Geelong parted with Maloney to pursue Brad Ottens. Obviously, they thought that they were reasonably well served with mid/forward types and he was expendable. I was a fan of Maloney at the time but in hindsight I think that it was a good move to trade him off. It is something that annoys me about the Dawks. They always seem to be able to secure a player to fill a genuine need. They needed a strong bodied defender and went after Lake and got him.

 

[Turbocat]

No, not necessarily if they have a kid in front of them in a key position. I remember when Richmond was a gun side (you may be too youthful) and Brian Taylor was a very good forward but had the misfortune of being in the same side as Michael Roach. Taylor kicked 156 goals in 43 games at Richmond. He was left out of the 1980 Grand final Team. Starved for opportunities he left the Tigers for the Pies and won the Coleman medal in 1986 kicking 100 goals.
I would have loved him at Geelong at the time as we had a gun backline and the forward line was a weakness.

Hard to determine age on the forum but Im one of the more senior here im sure. Yes that era , we would have been one of the best backlines but a stuggling forwardline. Always hoping for some new champ to show up. Roach , Taylor and Jacko were all at Richmond at the same time and Taylor would have been handy although the one who would have been even better was Stephen Michael but thats another story

So perhaps , you have a point about hidden talent but I believe these days more often than not talent will push thru. I concede that their list are unusually full. An example of that is GC rucks. The kid Nichols looks very good , they have Zac Smith to come back in and Gorringe in reserve somewhere. Is Gorringe a gun? Id say no but if he had been on our list he would have been considered one of our best young kids and have gotten a better chance to show his wares. At GWS do they have someone like that? Im sure they have but Im just skeptical of us actually getting someone who becomes better than the guys they preferred. Considering the age of their big3 forwards where will guys like Cameron McCarthy and Kristen Jaksch will struggle to fit in as forwards. Its does change quickly though , I'm sure they would have been think Davis was a lock for the backline

And to answer your question. I would not sell the farm for anyone.
But you may have to part with a player to get the player required to fill an obvious hole. For an example, the way Geelong parted with Maloney to pursue Brad Ottens. Obviously, they thought that they were reasonably well served with mid/forward types and he was expendable. I was a fan of Maloney at the time but in hindsight I think that it was a good move to trade him off. It is something that annoys me about the Dawks. They always seem to be able to secure a player to fill a genuine need. They needed a strong bodied defender and went after Lake and got him.

 

[Turbocat]

Definitely a back but does have the size (and I believe the athleticism) to act as a second ruck if the need arises (or we want to try something different).

I know we don't like to discuss it but Hawkins spent some time in the ruck before he became more consistent.

Walker is, against all evidence, being used as a ruckman at times.

I think everyone agrees that Vardy looks more natural as a forward yet rucks.

Toohey's go might not be as a ruckman, nor am I calling for it, but lets not dismiss it out of hand.

I understand the concern but Blicavs becomes the 3rd in line, well I think he does, since Vardy went down.

I have to think that since that is where Blicavs played last year.

With us moving West should we have rookied a ruck? Perhaps but it could be argued that we already had a "ruckman" on the rookie list in Blicavs.

But you mean a genuine ruckman. Maybe that would have been more prudent but we did have this discussion last year around the rookie draft. Is a guy taken last in the rookie draft really expected to do much?

Is some 18 year old kid likely to do that much better than Blicavs or Walker?

A lot of people didn't think Grundy would be much chop in his first year and he was a first round selection.

And let's not forget something you mentioned...

Piv although you make a fair case Im not convinced. Maybe if and when I see Toohey play that role I might change my mind. IMO , we are at least 1 Ruck option short maybe two depending on if they are real dual position players. I maintain that when we have a deficiencies in the AFL side Id rather have us a longshot back up , learning ,developing , using facilities rather than a madeup backup who has to play the role he doesn't train for. The kid Lever is going to play VFL , not having seen him but if he was someone we rated id prefer to have made him a Rookie rather than just a VFL player. We may never have to use him but at least its an option. As a VFL player he is not an option and if he plays the role in the VFL , we are not training any one to be a backup or replacement.

Will any young ruck be better than Blitz or Walker. We Blitz will probably play and as you've said he will be 3rd option but Walker he may just be better , hard to tell. Consider us last year. Simpson injured. Hmac injured. Blitz playing with hand injury. We don't have a 4th option now.

Ive said before that team are reluctant to put rucks on lists , they seem to prefer to pick mature players and let other do the hard work. The AFL need to address that perhaps give an extra player Rookie spot player above 200 paid for by AFL , we must not forget to encourage our local tall kids to play.

Rookie list in general Id agree. There should be no Rookie list and just extra places on the main. Id advocate short term contracts to enable players to be trailed but as it stands the Rookie list is unfair and encourages non-rookie types more than long term development players.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Seems a very smart tactical approach

I think this is River last year of contract so in theory if a player like Frawley was available.......
Quite right on the names mentioned , in theory they will be under utilized , highly talented and getable.

Yeah it is last year for Rivers.
Look speaking of that, if we want to talk about movements this year, not to plug my own thread, but everyone should be checking the contract status thread on Catscan throughout the year, as that will give a good idea of movements. This is because generally we do not trade contracted players. Now Varcoe may be that exception, and I do not want to re-open the debate about his form, but more because he is OOC end 2015 and a free agent, and I think clubs will be more proactive about trading free agents 12 months ahead of time, if contract negotiations aren't going well, when they can control the return. But other than that, we don't tend to trade contracted players unless they have off field issues ala SJ 2006.

So here's the list as we know it:
Older players
9. James Kelly (2014)
25. Jared Rivers (2014)
44. Corey Enright (2014)

Given our lack of depth at KPD, Rivers will probably get another year unless we land a player like Frawley (then again Frawley would probably like to play on the same team as Rivers).
Kelly and Enright will depend on how their bodies hold up but both are in great form.

Younger players
1. Mitch Brown (2014)
6. Lincoln McCarthy (2014)
10. Daniel Menzel (2014)
12. Jesse Stringer (2014)
15. Jordan Schroder (2014)
18. Josh Cowan (2014)
19. Taylor Hunt (2014)
21. Jordan Murdoch (2014)
30. Nathan Vardy (2014)
31. George Burbury (2014)
36. Brad Hartman (2014)
37. Michael Luxford (2014) *
38. Jackson Sheringham (2014) *
39. Shane Kersten (2014)
40. Jackson Thurlow (2014)
41. James Toohey (2014) *
42. Nick Bourke (2014) *
43. Zac Bates (2014) *
45. Joel Hamling (2014)
46. Mark Blicavs (2014) *
* denotes rookie
(note: the only source we have at this stage for Josh Walker not being out of contract this year is yearofthecat so he may be OOC as well)

As you will see, there are not a lot of gun young players, most of the guns like Duncan, Caddy, Bundy, Motlop etc as well as Hawkins come out of contract next year, so this will be quieter and next year will be busy.
The players I noted in red are for me the key retains that have talent and will need to be rewarded with good contracts (and in Blitz's case a senior list spot). And Menzel, Vardy and Kersten due to their injury histories have had their market value lessened to the point where they shouldn't be difficult to retain from the point of view of contracts and $ (I suspect if Menzel has any more knee issues he would retire rather than play for another club anyway).

Next year is a much bigger year, Duncan, Caddy, Bundy, Guthrie, will all be OOC and will need long term contracts and pay rises to lock them in. And Hawkins is OOC as well. Although the one thing we have aiding us is Varcoe goes vets list in 2016, and Hawkins and Selwood in 2017, which gives us cap relief.
So while I reckon we have a fair bit of cap room this year, the priority would be to keep room for all those re-signings next year, and a crack at a great free agent like Dangerfield.
So unless we can get a good free agent this year Like Frawley, which we should be having a crack at, or a good young player like I mentioned to fill a need, then otherwise we should be clearing cap space and hitting the draft. So for me at year's end, if you have guys like Schroder or Cowan or even Brown (though I hope he succeeds) who might be outside the best 22 but might be on say 150k, you can turn over the list spot, add a draftee in a good draft, and create cap space for next year.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I see a great opportunity here. As these kids come through they won't be able to keep them all. Some will leave for either more opportunity or a larger contract. Shiel or Treloar would be very high on my list.

How you get them though - now that is an entirely different question. I think you need to rely on the player nominating us and ONLY us which automatically gives us much needed leverage. We may be able to negotiate a trade that may be in our favour, albeit not a "steal".

Clearly though our first round pick, however high that might be, would have to be used to land a young gun such as those aforementioned players.

Not steals necessarily but the Brisbane five have shown if you get a player to nominate your club and your club only, you can get him under market value. So for some of the second tier players I mentioned, you could quite easily obtain such a player for pick 15ish (as we did with Caddy) even if he was drafted higher than that.

The Pivotonian is right that a lot of our drafting decisions have been good.
Probably the only major criticism I have (injuries to young players is one but a lot of that has been outside our control) is that we had too much faith in Gillies.
The way I see it, in 2011 when we drafted Hamling, we had knocked back an offer for Gillies from Hawthorn (which in retrospect we should have taken) and clearly we still thought he would be a good player, even though it was obvious to a lot of us he was struggling at vfl level. For if we had thought Gillies would be gone 12 months later I doubt we would have drafted Hamling, who while I rate him, with his body size is clearly very much a long term project, we would have gone for a more physically ready KPD.
It's obviously an area of our list that we now need to try and fill the gap of this year, given the age of Lonergan and Rivers.

 

[The rabbi]

The way I see it, in 2011 when we drafted Hamling, we had knocked back an offer for Gillies from Hawthorn (which in retrospect we should have taken) and clearly we still thought he would be a good player, even though it was obvious to a lot of us he was struggling at vfl level. For if we had thought Gillies would be gone 12 months later I doubt we would have drafted Hamling, who while I rate him, with his body size is clearly very much a long term project, we would have gone for a more physically ready KPD.
It's obviously an area of our list that we now need to try and fill the gap of this year, given the age of Lonergan and Rivers.

I could see someone like Kolodjashnij filling the Rivers' spot in the near future. I thought that he looked calm in defense in the VFL. He is of similar proportions to Rivers. OK he is about 6 kg lighter but he is just a kid at this stage. Rivers has already filled out at his age.

Replacing Lonergan will be a much harder job. Hamling is physically not up to playing KPD. He may make a third tall type in Andrew Mackie style be it forward or back. But typically, FB's are physically strong even if they are not tall for the position. At the moment I just cannot see anyone on our list who would be able to take Lonergan's place once he retires.

 

[Turbocat]

I could see someone like Kolodjashnij filling the Rivers' spot in the near future. I thought that he looked calm in defense in the VFL. He is of similar proportions to Rivers. OK he is about 6 kg lighter but he is just a kid at this stage. Rivers has already filled out at his age.

Replacing Lonergan will be a much harder job. Hamling is physically not up to playing KPD. He may make a third tall type in Andrew Mackie style be it forward or back. But typically, FB's are physically strong even if they are not tall for the position. At the moment I just cannot see anyone on our list who would be able to take Lonergan's place once he retires.

The only one looks to be Toohey but as most of us haven't even seen him play its a bit premature to lock him in. Of Course Scarlett was never Longergans height but as its been stated a bit , most position seem to be getting taller. Id want us to be putting efforts into a kid/kids 195+. Yet most would say that if we could we should get Frawley to play the and he is only 193. If 193 is OK then long term JK might be able to play the role.

 

[year of the cat]

Not steals necessarily but the Brisbane five have shown if you get a player to nominate your club and your club only, you can get him under market value. So for some of the second tier players I mentioned, you could quite easily obtain such a player for pick 15ish (as we did with Caddy) even if he was drafted higher than that.

The Pivotonian is right that a lot of our drafting decisions have been good.
Probably the only major criticism I have (injuries to young players is one but a lot of that has been outside our control) is that we had too much faith in Gillies.
The way I see it, in 2011 when we drafted Hamling, we had knocked back an offer for Gillies from Hawthorn (which in retrospect we should have taken) and clearly we still thought he would be a good player, even though it was obvious to a lot of us he was struggling at vfl level. For if we had thought Gillies would be gone 12 months later I doubt we would have drafted Hamling, who while I rate him, with his body size is clearly very much a long term project, we would have gone for a more physically ready KPD.
It's obviously an area of our list that we now need to try and fill the gap of this year, given the age of Lonergan and Rivers.

As others have mentioned, it's now just JK, Toohey and Hamling that really represent our future KPD spots. Hardly a group that inspires an awful lot of confidence for the future.

It will be interesting to see which direction or how Wells prioritises this years trade and draft periods. In my opinion we are still short a couple of quality mids but as you say we are also screaming out for the next KPD to come through. I reckon that this could possibly be Lonergan's last year. Rivers may have a couple left in him but that would be it.

If hypothetically Dangerfield decided to leave Adelaide, you would have to go hard for him. He would clearly require a bit to satisfy the Crows in a trade. There goes your first pick, probably your second as well as a half decent player. Doesn't leave much left to get another tall defender with! Free agency? Probably our most likely option but who do you target?

Lots of ifs and buts.

 

[Pivo]

As others have mentioned, it's now just JK, Toohey and Hamling that really represent our future KPD spots. Hardly a group that inspires an awful lot of confidence for the future.

It will be interesting to see which direction or how Wells prioritises this years trade and draft periods. In my opinion we are still short a couple of quality mids but as you say we are also screaming out for the next KPD to come through. I reckon that this could possibly be Lonergan's last year. Rivers may have a couple left in him but that would be it.

If hypothetically Dangerfield decided to leave Adelaide, you would have to go hard for him. He would clearly require a bit to satisfy the Crows in a trade. There goes your first pick, probably your second as well as a half decent player. Doesn't leave much left to get another tall defender with! Free agency? Probably our most likely option but who do you target?

Lots of ifs and buts.

How long have I been screaming out for a key defender to be taken in the draft do you reckon?

 

[Turbocat]

As others have mentioned, it's now just JK, Toohey and Hamling that really represent our future KPD spots. Hardly a group that inspires an awful lot of confidence for the future.

It will be interesting to see which direction or how Wells prioritises this years trade and draft periods. In my opinion we are still short a couple of quality mids but as you say we are also screaming out for the next KPD to come through. I reckon that this could possibly be Lonergan's last year. Rivers may have a couple left in him but that would be it.

If hypothetically Dangerfield decided to leave Adelaide, you would have to go hard for him. He would clearly require a bit to satisfy the Crows in a trade. There goes your first pick, probably your second as well as a half decent player. Doesn't leave much left to get another tall defender with! Free agency? Probably our most likely option but who do you target?

Lots of ifs and buts.

I highly doubt we will ever see Dangerfield or Boak in the Hoops.

 

[Turbocat]

How long have I been screaming out for a key defender to be taken in the draft do you reckon?

Really? Once or twice I suppose

 

[Pivo]

Really? Once or twice I suppose

Well, I don't want to say "I told you so" but...

I mean there is no point getting worked up over it and perhaps there is a plan with free-agency so I'll say no more.

 

[Turbocat]

Well, I don't want to say "I told you so" but...

I mean there is no point getting worked up over it and perhaps there is a plan with free-agency so I'll say no more.

We all have kids we would have liked , and roles that we think that need to be filled by someone (ruck rookie for instance). I was happy with the Toohey drafting but I wouldn't have minded this kid either.
http://www.backpagelead.com.au/index.php/afl/12028-mcstay-out-to-justify-his-name.

 

[Pivo]

We all have kids we would have liked , and roles that we think that need to be filled by someone (ruck rookie for instance). I was happy with the Toohey drafting but I wouldn't have minded this kid either.
http://www.backpagelead.com.au/index.php/afl/12028-mcstay-out-to-justify-his-name.

Trengove, Carlisle, Giles, Gardiner...lists, we all have 'em Turbs.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

As others have mentioned, it's now just JK, Toohey and Hamling that really represent our future KPD spots. Hardly a group that inspires an awful lot of confidence for the future.

It will be interesting to see which direction or how Wells prioritises this years trade and draft periods. In my opinion we are still short a couple of quality mids but as you say we are also screaming out for the next KPD to come through. I reckon that this could possibly be Lonergan's last year. Rivers may have a couple left in him but that would be it.

If hypothetically Dangerfield decided to leave Adelaide, you would have to go hard for him. He would clearly require a bit to satisfy the Crows in a trade. There goes your first pick, probably your second as well as a half decent player. Doesn't leave much left to get another tall defender with! Free agency? Probably our most likely option but who do you target?

Lots of ifs and buts.

Lonergan's contracted for next year but I do agree, not sure how much longer we will squeeze out of him or Rivers.

For me, the group behind them doesn't fill me with confidence.

If you could get Danger you would have to throw the cap at him and just draft KPD's instead, Danger is a gun.

That said, I found it interesting that Luke Delaney said a few weeks ago that Geelong was one of the clubs to offer him a contract, while I don't rate Delaney and think he's a C grade defender type, maybe it gives an inkling into our strategy in that rather than going for a very expensive gun defender we are going to try and find someone undervalued and low cost and try and improve them in our system.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I highly doubt we will ever see Dangerfield or Boak in the Hoops.

We probably won't get Danger, but if the Boak example is any guide, we sure as heck will try.

 

[The rabbi]

How long have I been screaming out for a key defender to be taken in the draft do you reckon?

Naah, can't remember that.

 

[year of the cat]

How long have I been screaming out for a key defender to be taken in the draft do you reckon?

Yeh, but one of them was Watson wasn't it? Dodged a bullet there

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Yeh, but one of them was Watson wasn't it? Dodged a bullet there

Watson is turning out ok at Carlton. As I remember, I was pushing to take him over Smedts. Not sure how that will work out long term.

That said the real opportunity lost was not taking Talia the year after. We missed out there.

 

[Pivo]

Yeh, but one of them was Watson wasn't it? Dodged a bullet there

I'll stack the other ones I also wanted up against Watson (who, as Pure_Ownage says isn't awful, just taking a while) and I think I'm in front.

 

[year of the cat]

Watson is turning out ok at Carlton. As I remember, I was pushing to take him over Smedts. Not sure how that will work out long term.

That said the real opportunity lost was not taking Talia the year after. We missed out there.

Knew I would push a couple of buttons with the Watson crack!

I agree about Talia. There were concerns about his kicking weren't there? Or was that his brother? Or both? Regardless, he has turned out to be a fine young player. We could certainly do with him right now.

 

[Turbocat]

Knew I would push a couple of buttons with the Watson crack!

I agree about Talia. There were concerns about his kicking weren't there? Or was that his brother? Or both? Regardless, he has turned out to be a fine young player. We could certainly do with him right now.

Liked Talia in the Champs but he was more of mid than FB.
Considering the age of our backline we probably still need to add or player or two , ideally a very strong marking defender.

 

[meto]

We all have kids we would have liked , and roles that we think that need to be filled by someone (ruck rookie for instance). I was happy with the Toohey drafting but I wouldn't have minded this kid either.
http://www.backpagelead.com.au/index.php/afl/12028-mcstay-out-to-justify-his-name.

McStay was a good one gone imo, but the one I was raving about to all the naysayers was flaming "Luke Dunstan", how we could consider letting him through to the keeper will continue to baffle me, his first game a senior appearance, and not only that, but also "wins rising star award."

All I can say to Wellsey is," this kid Lang will have to be pretty darn special" to even get near Dunstan, he was an absolute gift from us to StKilda. The mistake of the draft by us.

 

[The rabbi]

McStay was a good one gone imo, but the one I was raving about to all the naysayers was flaming "Luke Dunstan", how we could consider letting him through to the keeper will continue to baffle me, his first game a senior appearance, and not only that, but also "wins rising star award."

All I can say to Wellsey is," this kid Lang will have to be pretty darn special" to even get near Dunstan, he was an absolute gift from us to StKilda. The mistake of the draft by us.

I think we may need to keep our powder dry for a little while before we can say that it was a draft "mistake".