2014 Potential Draftee and Trade Watch

[thejester]

If we could grab another young kid like that with be in our defense in a year or two id be happy we are heading in the right direction. Who ? Not sure yet. The names from the D & T board mean little to me.
Anyone have any ideas?

Interested to see Chris25 had Goddard in the teens. Really liked the look of him last year, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't climb higher on the back of a good champs.

 

[Pivo]

Interested to see Chris25 had Goddard in the teens. Really liked the look of him last year, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't climb higher on the back of a good champs.

Chris is a pretty good judge so I'll stand pat until we get more of a look at Goddard through the year.

But the glimpses from last year looked pretty damn good.

 

[The rabbi]

You just climbed a 1000% in my estimations for the post,...thanks.

Is 1000% enough to get me a beer if I bump into you at the footy?

 

[The rabbi]

Not sure anyone was up for us grabbing him? It was a gamble and they lost.

I definitely remember someone protesting that Garlett was a great talent and we should take the risk. I just cannot remember which thread. But it was not Meto.

(1,001%)

 

[thejester]

I wasn't adverse to taking him (and thought onfield he would have offered a point of difference) but acknowledged the obvious sticking point was his ability to adapt to the lifestyle, and that we as punters weren't in a position to really figure that out. That said I didn't (and still don't) understand the obsession with passing moral judgement on footballers. The criteria should be their ability to maintain professional standards...everything else is noise.

 

[meto]

Is 1000% enough to get me a beer if I bump into you at the footy?

It's a bit of a drive this week.

 

[SCPaige]

Hi Guys,
I'm one of the commentators at TAC Cup Radio, thought this would be of interest to you regarding TAC Cup players eligible for this years and next years draft that are either father/son eligible or relatives of players past or present.
Geelong
Teia Miles (Son of Geoff who played 20 games) – Geelong Falcons
Aaron Christensen (brother of Alan) – Geelong Falcons
Harrison Kol (Son of Michael who played 63 games) – Geelong Falcons


More info can be found here.
http://boundforglorynews.com/afl-bloodlines-each-club-dissected/
All the best

 

[Turbocat]

Interested to see Chris25 had Goddard in the teens. Really liked the look of him last year, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't climb higher on the back of a good champs.

Good example Jes, although Chris does weigh his non Vics rather heavy. Goddard being a Falcon having the type of talent would be a very good get.

Hi Guys,
I'm one of the commentators at TAC Cup Radio, thought this would be of interest to you regarding TAC Cup players eligible for this years and next years draft that are either father/son eligible or relatives of players past or present.
Geelong
Teia Miles (Son of Geoff who played 20 games) – Geelong Falcons
Aaron Christensen (brother of Alan) – Geelong Falcons
Harrison Kol (Son of Michael who played 63 games) – Geelong Falcons


More info can be found here.
http://boundforglorynews.com/afl-bloodlines-each-club-dissected/
All the best

Thanks buddy , I think the Pies have the bets FA chance this year . I wonder how a Brother /Brother rule would work out. One one hand Menzel might be at Geelong but then where would Joel Selwood be?

 

[Turbocat]

I wasn't adverse to taking him (and thought onfield he would have offered a point of difference) but acknowledged the obvious sticking point was his ability to adapt to the lifestyle, and that we as punters weren't in a position to really figure that out. That said I didn't (and still don't) understand the obsession with passing moral judgement on footballers. The criteria should be their ability to maintain professional standards...everything else is noise.

Right there is the crux of the issue, where does Professional standard stop and start. At a min the give an insight into a kids ability to cope with all the non game demands..and its in this area that has found out Garlett.
Yes I was not enamored with what he was doing in all the social photos , but I didn't like the sound of him missing times and appointments. etc , especially when he was on his 2nd , 3rd , 4th try.
AFL football is not for all , even for those with the talent to play.

 

[Pivo]

AFL football is not for all , even for those with the talent to play.

This would apply to lots of people in many sports.

One of the most talented cricketers I ever played with didn't even get to state level. But he was one of the best batsman I'd seen up close.

Hit his late teens and completely lost interest in the game.

I'm sure we all know a few like that.

 

[Pivo]

I definitely remember someone protesting that Garlett was a great talent and we should take the risk. I just cannot remember which thread. But it was not Meto.

(1,001%)

Yeah, there were a couple that I remember.

Gartlett was always going to be a tricky one.

On talent he is a no brainer.

It was just all the other stuff. I guess Hawthorn were in a position to roll the dice and it didn't work.

If they had pulled it off though...*shudder*

 

[The rabbi]

Yeah, there were a couple that I remember.

Gartlett was always going to be a tricky one.

On talent he is a no brainer.

It was just all the other stuff. I guess Hawthorn were in a position to roll the dice and it didn't work.

If they had pulled it off though...*shudder*

And I would like to say, with all honesty, that I am man enough to take no pleasure in a Hawthorn mishap of this kind.

I really would like to say, but.........................

 

[Turbocat]

And I would like to say, with all honesty, that I am man enough to take no pleasure in a Hawthorn mishap of this kind.

I really would like to say, but.........................

Bit like knee reco's I can't take pleasure in it ....but there is a degree of confirmation , that sometimes , no matter how good the club , the result will not be forthcoming.

 

[Turbocat]

On to a different subject , cause Im a bit bored watch Tigga Blues,,,, I heard a bit of Terry Wallet talking on SEN today. They raised the idea of trading future picks . Interesting idea. Reckless clubs could wreck themselves I suppose but I think I like the idea. It gives one collateral , clubs that can trade future responsibility can have win/win. After all , isn't that what we did when we traded for Caddy and Smedts. We traded future R1 picks for a chance at players now.

Take for instance that we wanted to trade for a Dangerfield or even a kid like Kade Kolodjashnij , how easily can a club get it done. Not very but having the ability to trade of future picks for the right player could benefits both clubs in a trade

 

[Pivo]

On to a different subject , cause Im a bit bored watch Tigga Blues,,,, I heard a bit of Terry Wallet talking on SEN today. They raised the idea of trading future picks . Interesting idea. Reckless clubs could wreck themselves I suppose but I think I like the idea. It gives one collateral , clubs that can trade future responsibility can have win/win. After all , isn't that what we did when we traded for Caddy and Smedts. We traded future R1 picks for a chance at players now.

Take for instance that we wanted to trade for a Dangerfield or even a kid like Kade Kolodjashnij , how easily can a club get it done. Not very but having the ability to trade of future picks for the right player could benefits both clubs in a trade

I don't mind the idea of trading future picks but I do recall dazbroncos (or perhaps it was thejester) having some interesting thoughts to the contrary.

 

[thejester]

Not that I can remember

Obviously it happens in the American sports. There are some pretty notorious examples of deals backfiring - the Phil Kessel trade comes to mind, where in addition to picks in the 2010 draft the Leafs sent a first rounder in the 2011 draft to the Bruins...and then promptly plummeted down the ladder, giving the Bruins pick #2 in 2010 and pick #9 in 2011 and hurting the Leafs badly in a rebuild. Not against it in principle but I reckon it'd need to come in with other measures (like no-consent trading) to make it worthwhile.

 

[Turbocat]

Not that I can remember

Obviously it happens in the American sports. There are some pretty notorious examples of deals backfiring - the Phil Kessel trade comes to mind, where in addition to picks in the 2010 draft the Leafs sent a first rounder in the 2011 draft to the Bruins...and then promptly plummeted down the ladder, giving the Bruins pick #2 in 2010 and pick #9 in 2011 and hurting the Leafs badly in a rebuild. Not against it in principle but I reckon it'd need to come in with other measures (like no-consent trading) to make it worthwhile.

No-consent? Im sure there are good examples of positive and negative. As I said we sort have done it with Caddy.

Not familiar with particular deals in US but I know several teams rate the NBA draft this year , some teams seam almost happy to be losing. I wonder who traded future picks that will miss out on this draft? What did they get? Its these type of questions that will be queried if we introduce it , there will be winners and losers and a club is reckless they could castrate themselves but it introduce lubrication to the trade process , and for clubs like ours it would give us a chance to in non FA trade for a quality. as I said for like a KK or any quality kid from GWS.

 

[dazbroncos]

I don't mind the idea of trading future picks but I do recall dazbroncos (or perhaps it was thejester) having some interesting thoughts to the contrary.

Its a slippery slope. If you are a win now team and can trade your picks away to get GAJ then it can work out.

However, if say St Kilda traded 3 1st round picks to get GAJ and it didn't work they would be screwed for the next 6 years as they would shave no 1st picks and if their ladder position was low, thus the picks high, it can be crushing. Flip side is is Freo traded 3 x #1 picks for GAJ and won 2 flags it would be deemed a master stroke.

The Redskins traded 3 x #1 picks for RG3 in NFL. He is a good player but if his knee does not recover from the ACL he just did they will be paying for it for ages.

Like I said, ,its a slippery slope that can work but giving up the farm for established players can cripple and already shaky existence.

GO Catters

 

[thejester]

No-consent?

Players being able to be traded without consenting to it.

Like I said, ,its a slippery slope that can work but giving up the farm for established players can cripple and already shaky existence.

And I reckon that might be the sticking point. The private ownership model in the US means the league itself doesn't have a vested interest in teams remaining competitive - there are stacks of examples of franchises in the NFL, NHL, MLB and NBA that have been non-competitive on the field for a long time but survive commercially either because they have a captive market or because their owner likes to have a sandbox to play in (or both - hello Dan Sydner). If you do trade away a swag of picks to grab a player and then wreck his knee through chronic mismanagement/being too tight to pay for a proper stadium playing surface (why hello again Mr Snyder) the rest of the league doesn't particularly care.

But the AFL clearly does care, and as all the scandals of the last three years have shown are obviously desperate not to repeat what happened to Carlton and anchor a team to the bottom of the ladder playing horrible footy for five years. So they might take the line that teams can't be trusted not to shoot themselves in the foot, particularly when the AFL will end up picking up the tab.

 

[Turbocat]

thejester , Im under the impression that all trade are conditional on AFL approval. If the AFL really wanted to they could deny trades.

I fully accpet it could have down side for the reckless or the dumb , but for every down side there is an up. A club that wants to trade out a star to rebuild may be smart , while another club trading in that star may also be smart..win/win. Equally a club that trades out a star or two can destroy a club no matter what picks they get and as Daz say a club that trades a star in when they over pay relative to team perform can hang itself.

No club would be forced. We live in a very molly coddled , nanny state world and the AFL is firmly entrenched in that mindset , its socialism is a key to its success. This also encouraged clubs to break rules , to gather picks ...do anything to try to get from the bottom to the top.
Compliment that with all the delayed comp picks that have been in the system due to GC and GWS , one can see how it may advantage a club thats deprived of talent as well as a club that wants to top up for now. And just like Geelong , Collingwood and Melb , trading in doesn't have to mean old and "past it" when dealing with the new clubs.

As usual , the best clubs will have a very good idea on what they are giving away. Initially it would be only one draft in advance im sure. Let me put it this way , to get another quality kid like Caddy would we trade our R1 this year? If so why not next year as this year the draft is a strong draft , probably stronger than next year. Imagine if Hawkins back was a career killer. We have done all the work re-seting up our list and Hawk has gone down. Would we trade our R1 2015 for Patton or Boyd for example.

Less important but purely for an interest sake it would create more action at trade time. The players wanted FA to have more movement , im sure they would like it.
Just a thought.

 

[dazbroncos]

thejester , Im under the impression that all trade are conditional on AFL approval. If the AFL really wanted to they could deny trades.

I fully accpet it could have down side for the reckless or the dumb , but for every down side there is an up. A club that wants to trade out a star to rebuild may be smart , while another club trading in that star may also be smart..win/win. Equally a club that trades out a star or two can destroy a club no matter what picks they get and as Daz say a club that trades a star in when they over pay relative to team perform can hang itself.

No club would be forced. We live in a very molly coddled , nanny state world and the AFL is firmly entrenched in that mindset , its socialism is a key to its success. This also encouraged clubs to break rules , to gather picks ...do anything to try to get from the bottom to the top.
Compliment that with all the delayed comp picks that have been in the system due to GC and GWS , one can see how it may advantage a club thats deprived of talent as well as a club that wants to top up for now. And just like Geelong , Collingwood and Melb , trading in doesn't have to mean old and "past it" when dealing with the new clubs.

As usual , the best clubs will have a very good idea on what they are giving away. Initially it would be only one draft in advance im sure. Let me put it this way , to get another quality kid like Caddy would we trade our R1 this year? If so why not next year as this year the draft is a strong draft , probably stronger than next year. Imagine if Hawkins back was a career killer. We have done all the work re-seting up our list and Hawk has gone down. Would we trade our R1 2015 for Patton or Boyd for example.

Less important but purely for an interest sake it would create more action at trade time. The players wanted FA to have more movement , im sure they would like it.
Just a thought.

I think that trading one years picks is fine. Its when you get the multi year pick deals that is goes pear shaped. Thing is, would for e.g, GWS give up Boyd for 1 x pick. Then it would be AFL mandated value system and that goes against the "free trade" players getting their worth…

I thought 2 x 1st picks was s**t for Ablett so its not like I have the answer.

GO Catters

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I could see someone like Kolodjashnij filling the Rivers' spot in the near future. I thought that he looked calm in defense in the VFL. He is of similar proportions to Rivers. OK he is about 6 kg lighter but he is just a kid at this stage. Rivers has already filled out at his age.

Replacing Lonergan will be a much harder job. Hamling is physically not up to playing KPD. He may make a third tall type in Andrew Mackie style be it forward or back. But typically, FB's are physically strong even if they are not tall for the position. At the moment I just cannot see anyone on our list who would be able to take Lonergan's place once he retires.

Look I like JK long term but the point is he will take time and thats a luxury we may not have. Realtisically in your first of second year it is very hard to hold down an afl spot as a KPD/KPF in terms of your physical development, unless you are a gun. With Lonners and Rivers being 30 this year it's uncertain that both would play on next year, and if they did, how much quality we would get from them. Some remain guns into their 30's like Enright, but not all do.

With an area like this I'd like to see us follow the Hawthorn trading model where you don't necessarily have to get a gun, you just have to upgrade on what your current option is. Of all the guys they have traded in, you would only call Burgoyne a genuine A grade or elite player (and Lake, although he fell into their lap at the tail end of his career). The rest are good B+ types who happen to strengthen a weakness for them. E.g. Hale was no spud, being stuck behind Goldstein and Hamish doesn't make you that, but he moves like a statue at times and drops marks he should take. Yet for a club that had ruckmen like Taylor and Renouf he was still a significant upgrade. Smith can spray his kicks at times, but was an upgrade for a club that was very slow in the mids, and their only decent outside mid in Bateman was pretty much finished by that stage. McEvoy, despite being a good young ruckman is nowhere near elite as his tap ruckwork isn't that great, but he gives them a significant upgrade on using Hale and say Lowden to ruck.

Point is I would really like to get a A grader like Frawley but they are hard to come by. What we could look for, is say a good B or B+ grade player who would still be a significant upgrade next year on using either Hamling or JK.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Interested to see Chris25 had Goddard in the teens. Really liked the look of him last year, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't climb higher on the back of a good champs.

He won't slide that low IMO.

Someone like Lever is a better example of a good tall who may slide into the teens (mainly due to injury in his case).

 

[Turbocat]

He won't slide that low IMO.

Someone like Lever is a better example of a good tall who may slide into the teens (mainly due to injury in his case).

Seen only minimal of Lever but he doesn't look like a tall to me , more of a tallish HBF. Not even sure if he is a great kick. I think JK may come on a lot quicker than we think but that doesn't mean he can hold a KP in backline. We may be able to blood him and get games into him like we have with other kids , just most of them have been mids. He looks a lot closer than I thought he would ( a bit like Thurlow surprised me ..perhaps its coming from the Tassie comp)

Goddard may be picked to go late by Chris but he is a bit biased toward non vics. I doubt we get near Goddard either.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Seen only minimal of Lever but he doesn't look like a tall to me , more of a tallish HBF. Not even sure if he is a great kick. I think JK may come on a lot quicker than we think but that doesn't mean he can hold a KP in backline. We may be able to blood him and get games into him like we have with other kids , just most of them have been mids. He looks a lot closer than I thought he would ( a bit like Thurlow surprised me ..perhaps its coming from the Tassie comp)

Goddard may be picked to go late by Chris but he is a bit biased toward non vics. I doubt we get near Goddard either.

Jake (as a pose to his brother) is only 192ish but he plays taller than that because he has a really good ability to pick up the flight of the ball early and hit it at it's earliest point. Is also very good with his kicks which we value in our defenders, and very competitive.

Assuming we end up with a pick say between about 11 and 18 then we won't get Goddard but the good news is there will be some good talls fall in that range as there is good depth in talls this year, so I think we will be able to pick up a good key defender.