Preview Prematch Discussion Round 17: Essendon (Folks, pls read thread rules in OP, ta)

[Anzacday]

To be fair, I don't 'hate' the man (I don't know him), but I 'hate' the player.

IMO there are two types of players that I absolutely despise - dirty players (ala Judd, Ballantyne) and those that breach the 'spirit' of the game even if they don't breach a rule (Caff falls here).

So which category does your current tagger Hocking and former tagger Denham fall under?
For info. I believe Caff is an utter gentleman and simply does his job.

 

[Jade]

So which category does your current tagger Hocking and former tagger Denham fall under?
For info. I believe Caff is an utter gentleman and simply does his job.

Hmmmm. Neither I'd say.

Generally speaking I'd consider a DIRTY player to be one that deliberately attempts to harm (not hurt) an opponent. Hence the Judd example.

 

[Pendles!]

No, it wasn't - and here's why:

I was initially asked why the hatred for Caff, which I answered with (paraphrasing) 'I don't like dirty players or those that play outside the spirit of the game'. I gave a couple examples of each.

Now, no one bothered to ask me to QUALIFY what I meant for a dirty player because I only mentioned Caff in the 'spirit' side of things.

Whats the difference between Caff and say a Darren Glass or Tom lonergan? He's a defensive player and plays his role well.

The spirit of the game is not to let cheap front running midfielders have it there way all the time......

And bloody hell, an Essendon supporter talking about spirit of the game..... wowee!!

 

[SuperSub17]

What's with the huge shitfight going on in here?

 

[MyManLynch]

Caff works his arse off to keep his opponent quiet & curtail there influence on the game.
He doesn't pinch, bite, nut crush, man handle injured players. He plays within the rules & will be pinged if he scrags or illegally blocks a player (like every other tagger).
I would suggest that Essendon focus upon their own shortcomings as an open & honest Football club playing within the rules.

 

[Jade]

What's with the huge shitfight going on in here?

Don't think it's gone that far. In answer to a question of why the hate for Caff, I answered it. And now there's some discussion on whether it's hypocritical etc.

 

[good4footy]

Don't think it's gone that far. In answer to a question of why the hate for Caff, I answered it. And now there's some discussion on whether it's hypocritical etc.

What's with the huge shitfight going on in here?

One bloke hating Caff for playing outside of the spirit of the game but can't find one Essendon player, administrator etc who has ever done the same. Hird twice charged for disrepute to the game- more than anyone in history - but loves him . Just pointing out the hypocrisy.

 

[Pera]

Goddard out. Now we are certain to be overrun.... again.

 

[robertg22]

Not helped at all by the fact Port had a season high 9 players with U50 games experience...

Haha - and on Saturday arvo, we had 11! 7 with 30 or less games experience too.

 

[Yidaki]

What's with the huge shitfight going on in here?

Nothing really. Just another day in the life of a Collingwood fan and an Essendon fan.

 

[Jade]

Haha - and on Saturday arvo, we had 11! 7 with 30 or less games experience too.

You blokes struggling with injury or are your more senior guys giving you some issues?

 

[Collingwood pro]

You blokes struggling with injury or are your more senior guys giving you some issues?

injury its not funny.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Bring Reid and White in, we need to try the 3 tall forwardline that we had alot of preseason training put into, so why not try it against one of the best 3 tall backlines in the league.
Max comes in, and i would love to see Patty K come in, his VFL performances well and truly warrant it and he has huge upside, his creativity at half forward will be very handy.
Then theres Bally who will probably come straight back in, like to see him as the sub.

 

[robertg22]

You blokes struggling with injury or are your more senior guys giving you some issues?

Here's our injury list, you decide:

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/season/injury-list

NameInjuryStatus
Luke BallCalf/backTest
Marty ClarkeConcussionTest
Sam DwyerGroinTest
Jamie ElliottHamstringTest
Alex FasoloFootTest
Kyle MartinCalfTest
Adam OxleyAnkle1 week
Ben SinclairHamstring1 week
Matthew ScharenbergFeet1 week
Nathan FreemanHamstring2-3 weeks
Quinten LynchBroken leg2-3 weeks
Ben HudsonShoulder7 weeks
Nathan BrownShoulderSeason

+ Reid, Maxwell, Karnezis who have just returned to VFL action.

 

[Jade]

Here's our injury list, you decide:

http://www.collingwoodfc.com.au/season/injury-list



+ Reid, Maxwell, Karnezis who have just returned to VFL action.

How many of them are in your best 22? I count Ball, Clarke, Fasolo......

Serious question BTW, not taking the piss - you'd know better than me.

 

[robertg22]

Caff works his arse off to keep his opponent quiet & curtail there influence on the game.
He doesn't pinch, bite, nut crush, man handle injured players. He plays within the rules & will be pinged if he scrags or illegally blocks a player (like every other tagger).
I would suggest that Essendon focus upon their own shortcomings as an open & honest Football club playing within the rules.

Caff is just the midfield Presti. Gentle natured player who has almost a 100% defensive focus.

 

[robertg22]

How many of them are in your best 22? I count Ball, Clarke, Fasolo......

Serious question BTW, not taking the piss - you'd know better than me.

lol Clarke is certainly not best 22.

Reid, Maxwell, Fasolo, Elliott, Brown are pretty much best 22.

Borderline would be Dwyer, Martin, Sinclair, Oxley, Karnezis, Scharenberg or Freeman (even though they haven't debuted for the club, if fit they'd be in or around senior selection). Hell, even with the way our forward line is functioning (or, not) currently, Lynch would be a chance.

 

[Pendles!]

I think a better comparison would be say a Cornes (also a tagger). He blocks, shepherds, holds - generally makes a pain in the ass of himself; and I don't have a problem with him because his game is (mostly) not based on scragging his opponent.

Caff is well known as a massive scragger (which I might add IS illegal), who gets away with it. I hate the way he plays the game because I consider him inferior to his opponents, and I despise how he makes the game look (aesthetically).

Think we may have had a breakthrough here - problem would be bloody fixed if the umpires penalised him consistently.

No, thats not the point I'm trying to make. Full backs do the same thing week in, week out and noone bats an eye lid. Yes, Brent plays a defensive midfield role and scrags a bit (its very much overstated btw) but you have to understand that is part of the game and has been happening for 150 years.. Stephan Silvagni?

Yeah, its great to want to see midfielders and offence dominating all the time but thats just not sport.

Are all defensive players going against your so called spirit of the game?

 

[good4footy]

Oh it was indeed mischievous. Because until we have a player found guilty of a doping offence, we are no more guilty than the other dozen clubs who had the same issues we had (governance and/or management wise).

Now granted, it appears in hindsight that the 'self reporting' and the like was stupidity of the highest order - but again, I don't know all the facts as to why we did that to pass any meaningful judgement.



Once for criticising an umpire, and rightfully so - McLaren was s**t.
Second time for a 'crime' that may very well be based on illegal evidence.

I'll give you one thing though, he is an egotistical maniac - if a court declares the investigation illegal (and I doubt that BTW) I suspect Hird will go hardest and longest to pursue every person and organisation he feels wronged him.

Mate simple question as everything else you bring up is just noise. Explain how you can hate Caff for what you call spirit of the game issues but love Hird despite him bringing the game into disrepute twice.

 

[Collingwood pro]

How many of them are in your best 22? I count Ball, Clarke, Fasolo......

Serious question BTW, not taking the piss - you'd know better than me.

Right now
Ball
Reid
Maxwell
Elliot
Fasolo
Possibly Brown and Karnezis

A case could be made for
Freeman
Scharenburg
Dwyer

 

[rand corp]

Ins:

Maxwell
Elliot
Ball
Karnezis
White
Martin (If fit -but think he is set to miss again)

Outs:

Grundy - been an imobile hack past month
Dwyer - got a knock but seems to struggle to run out games
Thomas - lost the magic of last year having missed pre-season
Young - just makes unforgivable mistakes
Blair - does some good stuff just not enough of it
Hertier - not doing what we need which is provide run, carry and penetration

Oh, and I'd make Swanny the sub this week

 

[DaicosianMarvels]

How we are favourites for this game is beyond me.

I would be pretty shocked if we won this game, we are terrible at the moment and our winning streak over Essendon can't go on forever.

Early tip is Essendon by 30 points

 

[Jade]

Right now
Ball
Reid
Maxwell
Elliot
Fasolo
Possibly Brown and Karnezis

A case could be made for
Freeman
Scharenburg
Dwyer

Dare say from our best 22 we'll be missing:

Watson
Goddard
Kommer

and debatable over Browne and Gleeson.

So less missing, but a bit more top heavy.

 

[Anzacday]

Hmmmm. Neither I'd say.

Generally speaking I'd consider a DIRTY player to be one that deliberately attempts to harm (not hurt) an opponent. Hence the Judd example.

Using your logic, I would have thought Hocking and Caff were fairly similar in their approach, (guess we all love our own players though). Denham - the less said the better. Speaking of spirit of the game, you guys were the king of breaking it and were one of the main reasons for the 50 metre penalty being introduced. What about accusing Hawthorn of drinking illegal substances in their huddle?

 

[Jade]

Using your logic, I would have thought Hocking and Caff were fairly similar in their approach, (guess we all love our own players though). Denham - the less said the better. Speaking of spirit of the game, you guys were the king of breaking it and were one of the main reasons for the 50 metre penalty being introduced. What about accusing Hawthorn of drinking illegal substances in their huddle?

Or the IV drip at Brisbane, Sheedy tying the windsock down etc etc.....

I don't agree that Hocking and Caff are similar in approach at all. Whilst I agree that most taggers scrag on occasion, I genuinely don't have many recollections of watching Caff when he wasn't scragging in a contest - its just ugly, grimy football.