Abbott and the Enviroment

[swingdog]

I certainly agree with the mismanagement of the power industry but I sense that is a combination of a lack of competition, poor government contracting and poor pricing controls and uncertainty over regulation and the carbon tax leading to poor investment decisions.

Solar has not and can not reduce the price of power yet, rather through subsidies it has moved the cost and actually increased the cost. I think solar will play an important part of the energy mix long term but is actually part of the problem today. Our energy industry needs a wholesale fix not band aid solutions.

Since Australia has either sold off or is in the process of selling off its electricity and gas production, none of the fixes are really within the control of government any more. The one thing they could do is end perverse incentives which effectively pay the utilities to upgrade facilities based on dodgy demand projections. Take that out of the equation and it will force utilities to be smarter about their assessments.

Smart utilities will follow the lead of their counterparts in Germany and New Zealand and move into solar and storage. Someone who is vertically integrated, like AGL, is probably working out the best time to do this and screwing customers as much as they can under the old model, in the meantime.

Despite what the Federal Government may wish, we're not going back to coal. Smaller, smarter, distributed grids based on local renewables is increasingly going to be the model, at least in the residential sector.

 

[madmug]

When people comment about the subsidies given to the renewable power industry, they should remember that the taxpayer subsidised the big coal burning power stations when they were built, & continue to subsidise them though cost of fuel & water below market prices.
The coal based power suppliers are a bit rich complaining about solar subsidies.
So far as Carbon is concerned it seems if we got rid of the older inefficient coal burners & substituted Gas, we would have huge Carbon savings & more efficient power generation.

 

[swingdog]

So far as Carbon is concerned it seems if we got rid of the older inefficient coal burners & substituted Gas, we would have huge Carbon savings & more efficient power generation.

That's what the UK did - our problem is the cost of gas is higher than both brown and black coal, and going higher as the Eastern States reserves are now open to international prices.

 

[Power Raid]

Since Australia has either sold off or is in the process of selling off its electricity and gas production, none of the fixes are really within the control of government any more. The one thing they could do is end perverse incentives which effectively pay the utilities to upgrade facilities based on dodgy demand projections. Take that out of the equation and it will force utilities to be smarter about their assessments.

Smart utilities will follow the lead of their counterparts in Germany and New Zealand and move into solar and storage. Someone who is vertically integrated, like AGL, is probably working out the best time to do this and screwing customers as much as they can under the old model, in the meantime.

Despite what the Federal Government may wish, we're not going back to coal. Smaller, smarter, distributed grids based on local renewables is increasingly going to be the model, at least in the residential sector.

NZ has been a success but Germany has been a massive failure. I think it would be interesting to see why that is the case.

I will be meeting the guy who deregulated the power industry in NZ this Friday. I will see if he has any comments.

 

[Power Raid]

Since Australia has either sold off or is in the process of selling off its electricity and gas production, none of the fixes are really within the control of government any more. The one thing they could do is end perverse incentives which effectively pay the utilities to upgrade facilities based on dodgy demand projections. Take that out of the equation and it will force utilities to be smarter about their assessments.

Smart utilities will follow the lead of their counterparts in Germany and New Zealand and move into solar and storage. Someone who is vertically integrated, like AGL, is probably working out the best time to do this and screwing customers as much as they can under the old model, in the meantime.

Despite what the Federal Government may wish, we're not going back to coal. Smaller, smarter, distributed grids based on local renewables is increasingly going to be the model, at least in the residential sector.

agree via direct control that is true but it ignores the pricing regulations, subsidies, the carbon tax and uncertain regulatory environment.

 

[Power Raid]

It seems that the language around the $550 savings is now changed, the are now saying 'average' of $550.00. If someone here receives more, I would love to know. This government is so untrustworthy!

some pay more and some pay less. surely the average is as meaningful as your personal position or do you just care about yourself?

 

[Maggie5]

some pay more and some pay less. surely the average is as meaningful as your personal position or do you just care about yourself?

You should know better than that to ask me that question.
I know how you get an average, just wondering whether consumers in the states that still own their asset would get more or those that have become privatised.

 

[Maggie5]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-polit...-on-climate-says-uk-chief-20140708-zszx4.html
Worth a read.

 

[Maggie5]

Great viewing on Lateline last night. Emma Alberici really challenged Lord Deben but he remained adamant that Australia is not doing the right thing about Climate Change. Emma had certainly researched well.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s4042037.htm

 

[Gough]

Great viewing on Lateline last night. Emma Alberici really challenged Lord Deben but he remained adamant that Australia is not doing the right thing about Climate Change. Emma had certainly researched well.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s4042037.htm

John Selwyn Gummer, dirty old lefty.

 

[madmug]

John Selwyn Gummer, dirty old lefty.

A Tory Lefty?, Thats a bit like A Liberal Environmentalist

 

[Footy Smarts]

Solar has not and can not reduce the price of power yet, rather through subsidies it has moved the cost and actually increased the cost. I think solar will play an important part of the energy mix long term but is actually part of the problem today. Our energy industry needs a wholesale fix not band aid solutions.

I'd love to know where you find such fantasies.

In that case I guess the part of the nation with the most widespread solar would have had no change in their coal usage. They definitely wouldn't be mothballing coal based power plants because daytime demand has plummeted due to rooftop solar, forcing wholesale prices down and killing coal fired plants. No that couldn't possibly be happening.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-coal-fired-generation-49290
http://archive.today/Gx6Wg

 

[Gus Poyet]

A Tory Lefty?, Thats a bit like A Liberal Environmentalist

Conservatives throughout history tended to be the most philanthropic of people by nature.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Why can't caring for the environment be a personal thing? If people want to contribute to financing any changes/programs simply have money direct debited from their accounts to a fund dedicated to it.

For those who don't give a * about it allow them that right with no financial burden imposed upon them.

 

[Power Raid]

I'd love to know where you find such fantasies.

In that case I guess the part of the nation with the most widespread solar would have had no change in their coal usage. They definitely wouldn't be mothballing coal based power plants because daytime demand has plummeted due to rooftop solar, forcing wholesale prices down and killing coal fired plants. No that couldn't possibly be happening.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2012/is-this-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-coal-fired-generation-49290
http://archive.today/Gx6Wg

lol

go back and have a read

 

[noddy]

Why can't caring for the environment be a personal thing? If people want to contribute to financing any changes/programs simply have money direct debited from their accounts to a fund dedicated to it.

For those who don't give a **** about it allow them that right with no financial burden imposed upon them.

Would rather do a Tone & stick them on a island in the middle of nowhere with a bucket of coal each.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Would rather do a Tone & stick them on a island in the middle of nowhere with a bucket of coal each.

Why?

Who says people need to care about it? What's it to you if they don't give a s**t about the discussion?

 

[Gough]

Because like or not Gus, there is such a thing as society and collective responsibility and if nothing is done and soon it won't be a better world for those that follow us.

 

[Footy Smarts]

lol

go back and have a read

Yes you started from the completely false assumption that coal generation is based on night time demand. It's not.

Having more coal generation than night time demand is not a problem they can schedule regular maintenance and the like at night. When night time demand is particularly low then for a short period the price might go negative. This isn't a problem since they lose money for a very short period while making up for it many times during the daytime demand. But having daytime demand being crushed by solar takes out the most profitable part of the day for all fossil fuel generation that can't load follow (ie coal). As a result coal plants in numerous states have been closed and they're runnign at far lower capacity factors than previously. You're just spreading anti-solar propaganda that doesn't stack up to even the most basic analysis.

 

[noddy]

Why?

Who says people need to care about it? What's it to you if they don't give a s**t about the discussion?

Ok i'll make it a tax free zone.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Ok i'll make it a tax free zone.

Awesome.

Hopefully they expose the green scam in business so regular people don't get taken for suckers and over pay for things.

 

[Gus Poyet]

Because like or not Gus, there is such a thing as society and collective responsibility and if nothing is done and soon it won't be a better world for those that follow us.

I find that hard to take seriously. Too many of the people who moan about the future of the world seem only too happy to bring children into it. If it was as bad as they say why would they do such a selfish thing knowing the future?

 

[noddy]

Awesome.

Hopefully they expose the green scam in business so regular people don't get taken for suckers and over pay for things.

There are many more regular people out there Gus that do not follow your line of thought of "* the rest joe blow as long as Gus baby is living in clover" if i'm wrong about this then we are just one ****ed up breed of people.

 

[Gough]

Libertarians remind me of teenage children screaming you can't tell me what to do. They're an insignificant and unimportant minority.

 

[Ripper]

Great viewing on Lateline last night. Emma Alberici really challenged Lord Deben but he remained adamant that Australia is not doing the right thing about Climate Change. Emma had certainly researched well.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2014/s4042037.htm

Did she ask him if he had an interest ? Or did He declare it straight up?

According to Veolia Water UK - which readers will recall has a business connecting new power generators to the grid - he remains chairman of the board.

His failure, once again, to acknowledge his conflict of interest is presumably because if he acknowledges it now, he will be accepting by implication that he should have declared it when he stood as chairman of the Climate Change Committee. He has no choice except to try to tough it out.