Society/Culture Bodybuilding.com/Manosphere killers?

[The Coup]

Is there something wrong with these websites/communities and the ideas they promote? They are clearly sexist and conservative in tone and output but seem more or less harmless. But a number of high profile killers in recent years have had an association with these cultures in a number of different ways.

Elliot Rodger - Heavily influenced by pick up artist, men's rights and bodybuilding.com forums. The communities themselves seemed to pick up on the fact this guy had issues, but it doesn't change that his inspiration for his rampage was clearly a jumbled mess of men's rights and pickup artist memes and terms.

Anders Breivik - Lifelong bodybuilder and anabolic steroid user. Rabid conservative and Christian. Gun nut. Fits the profile of the modern MRA to a tee though he seemed more concerned with full blown racism rather than simply sexism with a dash of racism as you see in the manosphere.

Gable Tostee - Before the courts soon and doesn't look like a planned murder/death (could go either way), but clearly his sense of ownership over the deceased was a factor, especially at the point where he deprives her of liberty and becomes violently threatening.

Oscar Pistorius - Athlete, wealthy, conservative, racist. Essentially blamed it all on a random black guy and killed his missus because he couldn't deal with his insecurity. MRA's appear to say she brought it on herself by (allegedly) making her own decisions about who she has sex with.

Adrian Bayley - Big time misogynist goes without saying, also big time into bodybuilding.

Can the rest of society really feel safe around people like this? Is this recent obsession by some with the mythical concept of being an "alpha male" (a concept that science has dismissed many times over, btw) is leading some fairly sensitive nerds to overdo it on the testosterone, hatred and assertive behaviour before finally snapping?

Discuss

 

[La Dispute]

Blokes definitely get tricked into thinking going to the gym=confidence=girls will love me.

It's actually interesting and amusing trying to make conversation with socially awkward gym junkies. Conversely though, some blokes build up and get overconfident and annoying. They become narcissistic, vain and entitled to the attention of young women, and become aggressive when they aren't paid attention to.

 

[The Coup]

I'm all for people going to the gym and gaining confidence though, but yeah its the side effects and culture surrounding it. I mean, a lot of the guys in that list aren't gym rats, clearly. But they are attracted to the same online communities because of the misogyny on display (or in the case of MRA's, the focus of the entire movement is misogyny).

 

[HeavyPop]

I don't really think Pistorius or Breivik are very useful examples for the point you're trying to make. It also seems a bit pointless to isolate 5 cases and then generalize them.

As long as society continues to uphold sex/looking attractive as a way to validate yourself to others, then of course people like Rogers will exist.

 

[Santana]

Elliot Rodger - Heavily influenced by pick up artist, men's rights and bodybuilding.com forums. The communities themselves seemed to pick up on the fact this guy had issues, but it doesn't change that his inspiration for his rampage was clearly a jumbled mess of men's rights and pickup artist memes and terms.

Proof please.

 

[Max zero]

Proof please.

You mean the truth that Elliot Rodgers was actually a member of a forum called Anti-PUA and actually hated pick up artists and bodybuilder as much as he hated women?

 

[Max zero]

I'm all for people going to the gym and gaining confidence though, but yeah its the side effects and culture surrounding it. I mean, a lot of the guys in that list aren't gym rats, clearly. But they are attracted to the same online communities because of the misogyny on display (or in the case of MRA's, the focus of the entire movement is misogyny).

Have you actually been to a gym?

 

[MrCharisma]

At least they're not Stormfront: "People charged with the murders of almost 100 people can be linked to a single far-right website" http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/18/hate-crime-murders-website-stormfront-report

Stewies has a lot to answer for, though.

 

[Cooldude]

All sorts of people go to gyms and workout, man, some are crazies and some are great people. It's no different to most of the sectors and compartments in the world

 

[La Dispute]

Do you go to the gym Cooldude?

If so it's fair to assume you're a serial killer and you need to get off Bigfooty.

 

[Fuzzy Wuzzy Bear]

Elliot Rodger clearly never lifted a single weight in his life.

I've never seen anything to suggest that Breivik was a bodybuilder either.

Considering bodybuilding.com is one of the most active forums on the internet (especially the misc section) there's bound to be a few nuts that post on there, I'm sure at some point there have been bigfooty posters who we don't know about who have ended up on the news.

Pretty silly thread imo.

 

[Cooldude]

Do you go to the gym Cooldude?

If so it's fair to assume you're a serial killer and you need to get off Bigfooty.

Shut up or I'll kill you

 

[Aed0s]

I have to agree with Fuzzy Wuzzy, this is a silly post.

Not only are your unsubstantiated claims simply wrong, this is blatant disinformation.

Elliot Rodger was not heavily influenced by PUA's, he was adamantly anti-PUA. He had nothing to do with men's rights and wasn't associated with any men's rights movements. Your claim that he was influenced by men's right and or the PUA movement is simply wrong. He hated men just as much as he hated women and ended up murdering more men than women. Go figure.

Breivik is a follower of Christianity - yes - but his motivation behind the killings was a reaction to the ongoing Islamification of Europe. There's no denying his far-right beliefs but you do have to question and wonder why no one in the media or in academic fields ever brings up his obsession with far-right Zionist beliefs which had a significant impact on his ideas.

Oscar Pistorious - I haven't heard anything about him blaming some 'random black guy'. Pure conjecture. Her death was an unfortunate accident.

Do you feel safe around AFL players? They're mostly muscly and attend gyms. Do you play for a football club or surround yourselves with others who lift weights for enjoyment? Let's say I'm 20kgs overweight and I want to go to a gym to get into shape. Does that make me an evil misogynist who wants to go on a rampaging anti-feminist shooting spree?

It's mostly about self-improvement, development ones personal dimensions and instilling a strong confident than any absurd notion of hating on women through weights and protein shakes. I know bodybuilders who have competed in national weightlifting championships and they are some of the nicest people that I've ever met.

Seems to me that you're simply throwing around hate terms in order to demonise a certain lifestyle by associating them with crazies.

Objectivity and rationality isn't your forte, is it?

 

[SpuriousPea]

Obviously masculinity is the real problem.

State mandated estrogen shots when?

 

[The Coup]

Have you actually been to a gym?

A real gym, yes. And a few poser ones as a visitor but I didn't like it.

But I'm not trying to get swole bro.

 

[The Coup]

Obviously masculinity is the real problem.

State mandated estrogen shots when?

do you associate masculinity with racism and sexism?

I don't. I think masculinity is the opposite of those things actually.

 

[The Coup]

All sorts of people go to gyms and workout, man, some are crazies and some are great people. It's no different to most of the sectors and compartments in the world

I agree, and I think exercise is great and important.

I don't mean the people who are into being healthy, I mean the whole "pick up/hate/kill/rape chicks" side of things that goes along with their communities.

I know guys who to the gym every day and aren't "gym guys". But I also know "gym guys" when I see them, and those "gym guys" are a problem.

 

[The Coup]

I have to agree with Fuzzy Wuzzy, this is a silly post.

Not only are your unsubstantiated claims simply wrong, this is blatant disinformation.

Elliot Rodger was not heavily influenced by PUA's, he was adamantly anti-PUA. He had nothing to do with men's rights and wasn't associated with any men's rights movements. Your claim that he was influenced by men's right and or the PUA movement is simply wrong. He hated men just as much as he hated women and ended up murdering more men than women. Go figure.

Wrong. His manifesto makes it clear his motivation to kill is women first, and race second. The reason he had more male victims than female is twofold:

1. Most of his male victims were Chinese, he hated non whites (even though he was half chinese himself) and in fact it was the basis for his entitlement towards "good looking, blonde, women". The fact he had to live with other Chinese kids was a source of shame to him, he wanted to be white. So he killed them.

2. He couldn't get past the door into the sorority. His plan was to kill as many women as possible, from a particular sorority he saw as the "blondest and hottest". He stated it repeatedly. He was targetting women, he was just such a dero he couldn't get past a locked door. And thank Allah for that.

Breivik is a follower of Christianity - yes - but his motivation behind the killings was a reaction to the ongoing Islamification of Europe. There's no denying his far-right beliefs but you do have to question and wonder why no one in the media or in academic fields ever brings up his obsession with far-right Zionist beliefs which had a significant impact on his ideas.

I always associate far right views with Zionism. Stormfront types might not think they support Zionism, but they aren't known for being smart.

Oscar Pistorious - I haven't heard anything about him blaming some 'random black guy'. Pure conjecture. Her death was an unfortunate accident.

His claim was that a random black guy was in the house. And that he merely meant to kill a black man, not a white woman. Hence not guilty, cause killing black men is an innocent crime.

Do you feel safe around AFL players? They're mostly muscly and attend gyms. Do you play for a football club or surround yourselves with others who lift weights for enjoyment? Let's say I'm 20kgs overweight and I want to go to a gym to get into shape. Does that make me an evil misogynist who wants to go on a rampaging anti-feminist shooting spree?

It's mostly about self-improvement, development ones personal dimensions and instilling a strong confident than any absurd notion of hating on women through weights and protein shakes. I know bodybuilders who have competed in national weightlifting championships and they are some of the nicest people that I've ever met.

Seems to me that you're simply throwing around hate terms in order to demonise a certain lifestyle by associating them with crazies.

Objectivity and rationality isn't your forte, is it?

Nah I'm ok with sports. I'm good at sports. Most guys who go to the gym are s**t at sports imo, but I like sports. Not tying to be the best at exercising though.

 

[Fuzzy Wuzzy Bear]

I agree, and I think exercise is great and important.

I don't mean the people who are into being healthy, I mean the whole "pick up/hate/kill/rape chicks" side of things that goes along with their communities.

I know guys who to the gym every day and aren't "gym guys". But I also know "gym guys" when I see them, and those "gym guys" are a problem.

Just curious, what do they look like in your eyes?

Also, while Elliot Rodger posted in the bodybuildingforum misc forums, he clearly wasn't of those "gym guys". He didn't even go to gym from what I remember as when posters called him on it he would say things along the line of "I don't need muscles I have supreme facial looks".

 

[Aed0s]

If he wanted to get past the door into the sorority in order to murder all those women he intended to kill then he would've done so as this was his primary target and motivation to kill after all. Sounds like he backed out of this plan. Do you have any proof that he couldn't open the door?

If you've read his manifesto you would notice his obvious disdain and hatred for both men and women. He hated specific groups of women simply because they ignored him and he hated men who had girlfriends and who had found love which made him feel unworthy, small and rejected and this eventually developed into a hatred of life and humanity itself.

I wouldn't say he hated himself or his own mixed race ethnicity for that matter. I think that he killed his fellow room mates simply because they were easy targets. The entire 'self-hate' argument sounds a little conspiratorial for me.

What's Stormfront and what does this organisation have to do with anything we're talking discussing?

I haven't heard of any such claims. Using force to combat and prevent home invaders is not a crime in some countries like the U.S. Most countries have something called property rights, you know?

I did a quick Google search of your claim and I found nothing. Nada. Pistorius has a right to protect his property from any home invader, regardless of ethnicity.

Anyway, the murder trial is not a racial issue and it never was. Please keep the race-baiting to a minimum.

You obviously have a problem with this 'gym culture'. Gyms are mainly used by athletes supporting their training sessions and the average Joe and Kate to lose a few extra kilos for their health and weekly exercise requirements.[/QUOTE]

 

[Floor Pie]

Gyms are mainly used by athletes supporting their training sessions and the average Joe and Kate to lose a few extra kilos for their health and weekly exercise requirements.

What gym do you go to???
Ever been around 5:30pm?

 

[The Coup]

Self hate has been a common tactic by Europeans in colonising Asians since, forever. Encouraging people to hate their own history, culture and religion is literally out of the colonial handbook. He may not have been consciously aware of it, but its very clear he was a self hating asian of mixed race.

As for stormfront, I'm, sure in 1995 there were tonnes of stormfront users who defended their community as being safe in spite of some rogue nuts. Just like the miscers and pua's and mra's do today.

That's why it might be important to identify a similar culture. They do share a lot of the same worldviews.

 

[The Coup]

Just curious, what do they look like in your eyes?

Also, while Elliot Rodger posted in the bodybuildingforum misc forums, he clearly wasn't of those "gym guys". He didn't even go to gym from what I remember as when posters called him on it he would say things along the line of "I don't need muscles I have supreme facial looks".

No god no he was nowhere near an average gym guy. An average gym guy is an annoyance not a killer. But their misogyny was attractive to him, even though he clearly wasn't a gym guy (which we both agree on).

That's what I'm focused on.

 

[Max zero]

A real gym, yes. And a few poser ones as a visitor but I didn't like it.

But I'm not trying to get swole bro.

Well not everyone going to a gym is a 'swole bro.'

Some people just want to be fit.

 

[The Coup]

Well not everyone going to a gym is a 'swole bro.'

Some people just want to be fit.

I agree. I go to a boxing gym and nobody ever acts up themselves. Probably because some of the guys in there can actually knock people out for talking s**t (I am not one of them I just like to train).