List Mgmt. Clark meets with Cats

[bulletproof]

I have thought about this some more and I can't be convinced he is the right player. We have to put faith that one of Walker or Vardy can make it. I have faith in Walker, he just needs 50 games under his belt.

The forward line should be:

Christensen, Walker, Mcarthy
Kersten, Hawkins, Bartel

This is not the area of the ground that needs investment. Plenty of other parts of the ground do.

 

[Partridge]

I have thought about this some more and I can't be convinced he is the right player. We have to put faith that one of Walker or Vardy can make it. I have faith in Walker, he just needs 50 games under his belt.

The forward line should be:

Christensen, Walker, Mcarthy
Kersten, Hawkins, Bartel

This is not the area of the ground that needs investment. Plenty of other parts of the ground do.

It's not going to happen though. There is no way Scott will prefer Walker to Vardy. He'll talk Walker up, say how long he's been in their 'system', and then come Round 1, Vardy will be CHF.

 

[catempire]

I have thought about this some more and I can't be convinced he is the right player. We have to put faith that one of Walker or Vardy can make it. I have faith in Walker, he just needs 50 games under his belt.

The forward line should be:

Christensen, Walker, Mcarthy
Kersten, Hawkins, Bartel

This is not the area of the ground that needs investment. Plenty of other parts of the ground do.

I reckon they'll go:

Kersten, Walker, McCarthy
Clark, Hawkins, Bartel

They want another tall deep with Hawk to draw some fire in addition to CHF, whoever that may be.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Is he fully recovered from his foot injury? The main reason I want him now is just to annoy Collingwood to be truthful. They have done all the groundwork on this and for us to nab him late would be nice.

Lol- a good enough reason as any!

 

[bulletproof]

I reckon they'll go:

Kersten, Walker, McCarthy
Clark, Hawkins, Bartel

They want another tall deep with Hawk to draw some fire in addition to CHF, whoever that may be.

I think off a full pre-season Kersten can add more bite with tackling and ground level work. I think they need to pour a heap of work into him. He has to be a more genuine medium sized forward. Not just a lead and mark player.

He needs a big pre-season. He is a key player because I am sadly not counting Menzel yet. Menzel is the exact player we need. Kersten could be a slightly different version of that type though.

 

[Partridge]

I reckon they'll go:

Kersten, Walker, McCarthy
Clark, Hawkins, Bartel

They want another tall deep with Hawk to draw some fire in addition to CHF, whoever that may be.

They may. In that case I think they're insane.

Look at those names. Hawkins is slow. Walker's isn't quick. Kersten is ok but is still raw. Clark won't be quick. Bartel is as slow as any of them. There is one player and one only who might be able to catch a defender in McCarthy.

Besides, there's no Murdoch in there. Scott loves him. Be surprised if he's not in a forward pocket.

 

[bulletproof]

It's not going to happen though. There is no way Scott will prefer Walker to Vardy. He'll talk Walker up, say how long he's been in their 'system', and then come Round 1, Vardy will be CHF.

I will be extremely annoyed if that is the case. Walker's final series this year was much better than Vardy's in the same role the year before. I am hoping Walker has changed some opinions. He has changed mine, so maybe he has Scott's too!

 

[Teriyakicat]

I reckon they'll go:

Kersten, Walker, McCarthy
Clark, Hawkins, Bartel

They want another tall deep with Hawk to draw some fire in addition to CHF, whoever that may be.

They've had Walker and Brown all year but not used them much till finals. Do you think they might have finally realised that they need the extra tall to take some of the heat off Hawkins? Or will they continue to let Hawkins get triple teamed again next year?

 

[sauron256]

I reckon they'll go:

Kersten, Walker, McCarthy
Clark, Hawkins, Bartel

They want another tall deep with Hawk to draw some fire in addition to CHF, whoever that may be.

My concern would be opposition defenders waltzing out of our forward line with that many tall and slower blokes chasing them.

 

[Jagshemash]

I reckon they'll go:

Kersten, Walker, McCarthy
Clark, Hawkins, Bartel

They want another tall deep with Hawk to draw some fire in addition to CHF, whoever that may be.

Understand the the theory, but teams will just drop off 3rd man up and run it out of the forward line due to our lack of pressure. Especially if we go with our current method of bombing it long.

 

[year of the cat]

That's not the issue I have, it moreso centres on what we do with Walker, Kersten and Vardy. They can't all play in the one side, it makes us too top heavy. Geelong going hard at Clark suggests one or more of these players are expendable and could be traded.

I also share the same views as vinum coupe regarding our backline. That's a real issue for me, and bringing Frawley in and not having any retirements only compounds our issues. We're simply too one dimensional down back. It spells disaster playing all of Frawley, Lonergan, Rivers, Mackie, Taylor and Enright down back.

Absolutely. I think we need to be a bit less sentimental when it comes to our "home-grown" players. If that means trading out a Kersten or Walker which allows us to gain an effective inside midfielder which we need then I think we've done well. As long as it doesn't rip out the fabric of the club I have no problem doing it. I think players these days are less sensitive to these type of list changes than in the past. After all they were the ones that pushed for FA to be introduced and the consequent increase in player movement.

 

[Catatonic Shock]

They may. In that case I think they're insane.

Look at those names. Hawkins is slow. Walker's isn't quick. Kersten is ok but is still raw. Clark won't be quick. Bartel is as slow as any of them. There is one player and one only who might be able to catch a defender in McCarthy.

Besides, there's no Murdoch in there. Scott loves him. Be surprised if he's not in a forward pocket.

Murdoch will be on a wing.
If we got Clark and the idea was to play him forward, with having the possibility of walker kersten and vardy fit, I would think a change of gameplan would be in order and to use more of a "forward pressure" type style to keep the ball within 80m of goal.
That relies more on our midfield and their ability to firstly ensure no free half back take away and space to run and secondly to hit up targets when the inevitable turnover comes.
Basically it's somewhat similar to what the Hawks use, port and swans also, and it's highly effective providing you have multiple targets up forward and midfielders with the ability to hit them (which we do, they just haven't been used that way or been injured).

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

I reckon they'll go:

Kersten, Walker, McCarthy
Clark, Hawkins, Bartel

They want another tall deep with Hawk to draw some fire in addition to CHF, whoever that may be.

A forward line as such requires precise and definitive footskills....we're bereft of talent in this area.

Now that's 4 talls in attack coupled with 5 talls down back.....a recipe for disaster.

 

[goyoucatters]

I really want Clark if he's prepared to come and play predominantly as our first ruck.

Otherwise, I agree with many here that he complicates list management matters significantly by adding another 'tall' to a seemingly never-ending list.

And like virtually all the others slated for work in the ruck or forward half, he has serious question marks over whether he'll be out there week upon week. Walker aside, it seems to be the rule.

I acknowledge that it's possible there could be huge reward in this deal.

But the only certainty is that it's high-risk.

 

[Partridge]

Murdoch will be on a wing.
If we got Clark and the idea was to play him forward, with having the possibility of walker kersten and vardy fit, I would think a change of gameplan would be in order and to use more of a "forward pressure" type style to keep the ball within 80m of goal.
That relies more on our midfield and their ability to firstly ensure no free half back take away and space to run and secondly to hit up targets when the inevitable turnover comes.
Basically it's somewhat similar to what the Hawks use, port and swans also, and it's highly effective providing you have multiple targets up forward and midfielders with the ability to hit them (which we do, they just haven't been used that way or been injured).

In order to apply forward pressure, we need to have players capable of chasing and laying tackles. That group doesn't fill me with confidence.

 

[Partridge]

Absolutely. I think we need to be a bit less sentimental when it comes to our "home-grown" players. If that means trading out a Kersten or Walker which allows us to gain an effective inside midfielder which we need then I think we've done well. As long as it doesn't rip out the fabric of the club I have no problem doing it. I think players these days are less sensitive to these type of list changes than in the past. After all they were the ones that pushed for FA to be introduced and the consequent increase in player movement.

They need to be less sentimental full stop.

 

[Partridge]

They've had Walker and Brown all year but not used them much till finals. Do you think they might have finally realised that they need the extra tall to take some of the heat off Hawkins? Or will they continue to let Hawkins get triple teamed again next year?

No. They did that because neither of them were named Vardy. It's his position. They want him to play there, so there's no need to develop anyone else.

 

[Biscut]

He looks more suited to the Collingwood jumper with all that ink.

Nah, he looks like a **** head in the pies jumper and a champion in the geelong one

 

[catempire]

They've had Walker and Brown all year but not used them much till finals. Do you think they might have finally realised that they need the extra tall to take some of the heat off Hawkins? Or will they continue to let Hawkins get triple teamed again next year?

Not sure if it's a realisation or just that we haven't had the type of tall forward available gat they wanted to pair with Hawk. I think they want a tall, mobile, marking type like Vardy or Clark. I think they didn't feel Walker or Brown fit that mould, particularly Brown.

 

[year of the cat]

But given Scott's tendencies, an awful lot of those tall players he seems to like playing. Hawkins, McIntosh, Vardy, Blicavs will all play if they're fit. He won't play them in the VFL. He won't drop any of Lonergan, Taylor or Rivers (and on form he shouldn't either). That's the issue.

Go through those names above, even without Clark. Who do you see him playing in the VFL from that list? For me the answer is none.

I would hope that the penny might drop for Scott now. I think that we were able to play taller down back than normal during 2007-2011 because Scarlett was as attacking as he was defensive. You really appreciate how bloody good he was now that he's gone. Our current tall defenders in Lonergan and Rivers, whilst doing a great job defensively, don't provide any real attack from the back 50. We need an overhaul of our back 50. If that means pensioning off Lonergan and Kelly then so be it.

Clark is obviously going to play forward, rather than back, so his relevance to the back issue is negligent by the way. The recruitment of Frawley is possibly more questionable but with an ageing back six you can see why they are so keen to get him. How we fit them all in IF we get Frawley is the $50M question. I'd suggest that Lonergan will spend a fair bit of time playing VFL footy next year.

 

[catempire]

They may. In that case I think they're insane.

Look at those names. Hawkins is slow. Walker's isn't quick. Kersten is ok but is still raw. Clark won't be quick. Bartel is as slow as any of them. There is one player and one only who might be able to catch a defender in McCarthy.

Besides, there's no Murdoch in there. Scott loves him. Be surprised if he's not in a forward pocket.

My concern would be opposition defenders waltzing out of our forward line with that many tall and slower blokes chasing them.

Understand the the theory, but teams will just drop off 3rd man up and run it out of the forward line due to our lack of pressure. Especially if we go with our current method of bombing it long.

A forward line as such requires precise and definitive footskills....we're bereft of talent in this area.

Now that's 4 talls in attack coupled with 5 talls down back.....a recipe for disaster.

I understand that concern. Murdoch will be thereabouts too. Kersten isn't a tall in my view. He's a quick medium.

We need to find a pair for Hawk and some speed at their feet. There's no solution yet.

 

[Partridge]

Not sure if it's a realisation or just that we haven't had the type of tall forward available gat they wanted to pair with Hawk. I think they want a tall, mobile, marking type like Vardy or Clark. I think they didn't feel Walker or Brown fit that mould, particularly Brown.

Which would be interesting, as he's the most mobile of the lot of them.

 

[Teriyakicat]

Not sure if it's a realisation or just that we haven't had the type of tall forward available gat they wanted to pair with Hawk. I think they want a tall, mobile, marking type like Vardy or Clark. I think they didn't feel Walker or Brown fit that mould, particularly Brown.

I thought that a combination of Hawkins-Walker-Kersten/Brown would've got the job done a lot better than Hawkins + nobody but we were very restricted in the first half of the year, having to carry a spare ruckman (well, actually two half fit ruckmen plus Blicavs as insurance).

The MC seemed to experiment a fair bit then, when something worked (eg Brown), not go back to it later when we know they could have. I thought it was a very frustrating year in this respect.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

That's not the issue I have, it moreso centres on what we do with Walker, Kersten and Vardy. They can't all play in the one side, it makes us too top heavy. Geelong going hard at Clark suggests one or more of these players are expendable and could be traded.

I also share the same views as vinum coupe regarding our backline. That's a real issue for me, and bringing Frawley in and not having any retirements only compounds our issues. We're simply too one dimensional down back. It spells disaster playing all of Frawley, Lonergan, Rivers, Mackie, Taylor and Enright down back.

I think if we get Frawley and it's still a big if. Then one of Lonergan or Rivers gets phased out of the side. I'd like to see Bews replace Kelly in the back half as well.

 

[Partridge]

I thought that a combination of Hawkins-Walker-Kersten/Brown would've got the job done a lot better than Hawkins + nobody but we were very restricted in the first half of the year, having to carry a spare ruckman (well, actually two half fit ruckmen plus Blicavs as insurance).

The MC seemed to experiment a fair bit then, when something worked (eg Brown), not go back to it later when we know they could have. I thought it was a very frustrating year in this respect.

That's just bad management and bad selection. You shouldn't pick three players for a two-player role (ruck), just in case one or both of your proper ruckmen aren't fit enough. If they aren't fit enough, then two questions ask themselves: Why aren't they fit enough, and why were they selected? And the net result was it continued to screw with our forward setup (remember how McIntosh had magically turned into a gun CHF for a few weeks mid-season?), and development was neglected.