No Oppo Supporters CAS hands down guilty verdict - Players appealing - Dank shot - no opposition - (cont in pt.2)

[Bennett.]

What a pack of dead shits

Dutton: Quick Ben, get me a norilisor and instructions from Charters on how to use said neuralizer... or is it neuralyzer?

I'll remove TB4 from the banned list and you flash them with The Good Nuraliaisder thingy...

View attachment 89506


View attachment 89509

 

[Bennett.]

Incidentally, the fact that most 'recreational' drugs are made up of god knows what in the most filthy conditions imaginable
SHOULD be of equal concern to people. I'd be more worried about that affecting my life and 'unborn kids'.

 

[Mercurial89]

Sorry but this is crap.

Your example for the dosage profile is ludicrous, especially since it's been narrowed down to one of two substances before the dosage profile comes into it. The dosage profile is incredibly damning, particularly in this case.

As for the case being complicated, again, more tripe. Of course it's complicated, what other examples do you have of a team of 34 players being pursued for doping when the code is designed around individual Olympic athletes. On top of that you have the lack of documentation, vague consent forms and a supply chain leading back to China.

Of course it's ******* complicated.

Isnt that entire point predicated on the false notion that Dank only worked with us?

He part owned a Anti Aging clinic, had other clients (that you can see from Melbournes dealings) and probably other higher ranking ex athletes that wanted to stay young fit and healthy. The idea that there is a connection between Dank and a supplier does not then equate to those substances being at the club purely because we were a client of Dank's.

the fact that the only invoice payment for a banned substance to EFC that has been made public is one that was hastily reversed and no payment made does not show anything. It is certainly something to examine in a doping case of course, but its also an equally possible explanation that if you put enough bits of evidence gathered by subjective interpretaion together you can paint a picture of just about anything.

Id argue the reason this is "complicated" isnt much to do with the 34 players, team doping etc but more because this investigation has been conducted with running commentery from every single party involved, and many who arent. This shouldnt happen, but again its more a problem with the System and not ASADA. I do not blame ASADA for the way they are acting, the position they have been put in makes it understandable.

 

[dougyboy]

Incidentally, the fact that most 'recreational' drugs are made up of god knows what in the most filthy conditions imaginable
SHOULD be of equal concern to people. I'd be more worried about that affecting my life and 'unborn kids'.

You mean they can't guarantee what they're putting into their bodies???
Where have I heard that. What if the said pills had tb4 filler in them, then what?

 

[rumply]

ASADA, not AFL, to lead case v Bombers
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-not-afl-to-lead-case-v-bombers-20141028-11d8yy.html

The AFL has decided that ASADA will prosecute any doping cases against Essendon players at the AFL Tribunal, instead of having AFL-appointed prosecutors.

And ASADA's case against the 34 current and former Essendon players will be prepared by Commonwealth Government solicitors, who will provide instructions to a barrister, most likely a QC.

The AFL could have handled the tribunal cases itself under the rules, but it has been decided, following discussions with ASADA, that the nation's anti-doping body will act as the prosecutor - outlining the case against the players and presumably calling for sanctions. The players' legal team is headed by Tony Hargraves and Athletics Australia chairman, David Grace, QC, supported by the AFL Players' Association.

The tribunal cases are expected to be heard before Christmas once the anti-doping panel has found the players have a case to answer and has placed them on the register of findings, triggering infraction notices and then tribunal hearings. Given that the players have chosen not to contest show-cause notices, this step - and the issuing of infraction notices by the AFL - are considered certain, although it is always open for players to take deals - cop plea bargains - with ASADA.

No decision has been made on whether any tribunal cases will be heard "in camera" - as the doping case involving Ahmed Saad case was - or if media will be allowed to cover the proceedings. The tribunal chairman - likely to be David Jones, who chaired the Saad case - has the discretion to decide whether the hearings will be open, like regular AFL Tribunal hearings, or if they should be closed until the verdict is announced, like the Saad case.

The Saad case was prosecuted by ASADA, with the player receiving an 18-month ban after testing positive to a banned substance that was contained in a sports drink.

ASADA would be making submissions to the AFL's doping tribunal, even if the AFL had appointed legal people to prosecute the case. So it is arguable that ASADA might as well be the party that makes the case against the players - assuming that the cases proceed at the tribunal.

There is also an argument that the AFL would be better to allow ASADA to make the cases, rather than AFL-appointed prosecutors, because it would avoid perceptions that the hearing might be "soft" on players - that the AFL arguably has nothing to gain, and more to lose, from player suspensions.

The players' legal team have opted not to contest the show causes, in order to expedite the matter and have it dealt with in a tribunal where they feel they have a better chance of a fair hearing.

Do not see any real issues with this is it appears to be the norm that ASADA prosecute, rather than the sporting body & as pointed out, helps remove speculation of the AFL going easy on the players.

 

[boncer34]

It is the norm.

More grandstanding from the Age.

 

[Pweter]

ASADA, not AFL, to lead case v Bombers
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/asada-not-afl-to-lead-case-v-bombers-20141028-11d8yy.html



Do not see any real issues with this is it appears to be the norm that ASADA prosecute, rather than the sporting body & as pointed out, helps remove speculation of the AFL going easy on the players.

So ASADA prosecute, the player's laywers defend, who's judge/jury/executioner? This makes mention of David Jones, so who else makes up the tribunal panel?

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

So there's no chance now of players getting off? Asada want to be judge,jury and executioner it seems.

just * off.

 

[Matthew_Lloyd]

So there's no chance now of players getting off? Asada want to be judge,jury and executioner

just **** off.

That's all good and well, except ASADA aren't judge, jury and executioner

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

So there's no chance now of players getting off? Asada want to be judge,jury and executioner

just **** off.

the chances of us getting off are the same.. from what I gather it just mean ASADA use the evidence they have gathered to put there case forward to why we doped.. we argue why we didn't.

I just pray to jebus that it's an open hearing. I WILL NOT be able to accept any Penaltys if it's closed

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

the chances of us getting off are the same.. from what I gather it just mean ASADA use the evidence they have gathered to put there case forward to why we doped.. we argue why we didn't.

I just pray to jebus that it's an open hearing. I WILL NOT be able to accept any Penaltys if it's closed

Hmmmmm

Those player lawyers better be earning their pay packets.

 

[Howard Moon]

qc: did you take peds?

player: refer to the 55 document of what I've already told you.

rinse and repeat.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

What's the worse that could happen? players receive bans,they say * off and keep playing it's not like Asada/AFL can hold a gun to their head and force them to miss games.

 

[Howard Moon]

They can if the afl have signed on I'd think

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

They can if the afl have signed on I'd think

Don't think the AFL will sign on anything that has players cop heavy bans.

 

[Howard Moon]

I mean signed onto the Wada charter as a sport

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

What's the worse that could happen? players receive bans,they say **** off and keep playing it's not like Asada/AFL can hold a gun to their head and force them to miss games.

so ur saying lance Armstrong will be making a come back soon?? it's not like they can hold a gun to his head?

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

Dirty tricks being played by Asada. A few days left of response time and they push their case via the media.

Not surprising the volume of articles. These people and their entourage are low life scum.

 

[cymarak]

What's the worse that could happen? players receive bans,they say **** off and keep playing it's not like Asada/AFL can hold a gun to their head and force them to miss games.

Not sure if you're being serious.

Players playing while suspended ? That wouldn't end well ...

 

[Howard Moon]

what i wrote to robbo...

Football isn’t the most important thing in the world, but in this city it comes close. As one famous quote reads ‘football is the most important of the less important things.

This city breathes football, its tribal. You are born into bloodlines that carry you though a football supporting life until you pass them onto your kids. There’s no changing it, there’s no supressing it, it’s there for ever, like a splinter in your soul. Of course it ebbs and flows; as a child it’s your everything, those players are like gods amongst men. As a teen it ebbs a little while you find out what’s at the bottom of a brown bottle and the allure of the opposite sex…but it’s still there. You can pretend not to care but when a news report of your club comes on you stop to listen. You still get the adrenaline during a close game or feel the eyes welling at a close loss.

It’s also a social binder, people are known by who they support sometimes more than by who they are. Football is a leveller, it’s not uncommon to see blue collar workers, white collar workers, scholars, immigrants, all sitting around the one bar table discussing football. These are things that don’t normally happen in society, but for our game.

I was in a happy little routine as a proud Bombers supporter, I’d go to work and debate all day long about the state of the game, who was good, who was bad, Quite often with people that I don’t even know by name, only by who their team is. The best part about these arguments is there is no winners, there is no wrong answer, its all about opinions. Your rebuttals can go back to having won 16 flags, to how good the kids on your list are, to that time we beat you by a point after the siren.

These moments of football banter got me through the long days, the longs weeks of work that are sometimes mundane. Its was my escape.

Then something happened, the so called worst day in sporting history happened.

As a bombers fan this was our twin towers, our Bali bombings, the day we lost our innocence and as it happens our ability to hold any moral ground in any footballing debate from that point forward. The anger builds inside me as I try and make my point when I hear from the other side of the table, well at least we aren’t drug cheats…..

Know it alls trying to tell me why I should hate Hird, because they read the latest newspaper article. Know it alls suddenly experts in bio chemisty or contract law. Journos strumming our pain with their pens as they straddle the lines of propaganda while they blatantly put forward the rhetoric of whichever side they are leaking for. The club with its back up, bound, looking for any angle of retort.

This turned into a media war with leak and counter leak, spin and counter spin to a point where the original points of debate were lost months ago. As with any war, its always the same, there is collateral damage and the innocent people are the ones to get hurt. This saga has been reported to saturation point via every possible angle, except for one, the Bombers fans, nobody has stopped for a single moment to think or report how this has been for us.

What were we supposed to do? Of course we had to stand by our club who told us the truth will come....the longer we waited the more abuse we received from everybody in society who has been against us from the start, while their anger was being fanned by the daily papers. Kids in school being teased as drug cheats before they should know what drugs are. We have been marooned like hapless fools while the club made promises, each weak move the board made, made us look more the fool. The strong amongst us kept up the fight for months, we believed the truth would come despite the bombardment from all angles. But after a while it became too much, repeating the same answers to the same idiotic accusations – sheep believing every aspect of what they are served without an ounce of free thought or perspective.

Well im tired.

I cant do it anymore, and I know I’m not the only one, I no longer seek out the people in the work corridor to chat about football, I no longer visit the football chat rooms or forums, its too painful. I used to love reading the paper from the back in the morning – I no longer buy it. The sports report on the news? Change the channel.

I am at my lowest ebb as a football fan, the flame is flickering, and I know for a fact this is happening across Melbourne and not just From the red and black end. This needs to end before the damage is irreplaceable, please put down your guns, put your proof if any on the table ASADA, and end this so we can all move on.

I know that this stain will always be there, and if an argument gets hard the mug on the other side will always bring up the drugs, no matter if we are found innocent or guilty. But I can wear that, it’s the price we pay for what’s happened.

Lets finish this so I can get my footy life back

 

[rines]

Sorry but this is crap.

Your example for the dosage profile is ludicrous, especially since it's been narrowed down to one of two substances before the dosage profile comes into it. The dosage profile is incredibly damning, particularly in this case.

As for the case being complicated, again, more tripe. Of course it's complicated, what other examples do you have of a team of 34 players being pursued for doping when the code is designed around individual Olympic athletes. On top of that you have the lack of documentation, vague consent forms and a supply chain leading back to China.

Of course it's ******* complicated.

PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE just put me on ignore.. You are so predictable it becomes boring.

The 'dosage profile' is incredibly stupid to use in a doping case as it can be applied to MULTIPLE substances, also the consent forms ACTUALLY lists the dosage profile for Thymomodulin (once a week x 6 weeks) NOT everyday like TB4. So if you want to apply a 'dosage profile' then it SUPPORTS the club using Thymomodulin NOT TB4.

Other national bodies have had to investigate doping claims for ENTIRE sporting events, like MULTIPLE teams (cycling for example) which makes it harder as you have 400+ people involved in one way and it can involve multiple countries etc etc. Other investigations have included Weight Lifting teams that included squads of over 150 athletes (mainly eastern block, but more recently SE Asia). In those cases it is FAR more complicated because you have ZERO co-operation from the sport, athletes also no 'consent' forms whatsoever.. nor are you able to so easily 'track' the shipments back to China because they are SECRETIVE and SMUGGLE the 'goods' in... you know.. to AVOID detection!!!

Seriously get a grip, we supposedly ran a 'highly sophisticated' doping program.. but then made sure it was documented through official invoices/consent forms/allowed player interviews/opened up our records... yeah OK.. good job. As you to your dramatic "a supply chain leading back to China"... seriously? Over 80% of the goods used in Australia have supply chains leading back to China. Is China our new 'Mexico'... is it scary for you to understand we live in a GLOBAL community.. where goods can be shipped cheaply all around the globe? I would suggest that the reason why the product is sourced in China is 100% relating to 'cost' not some clandestine plan to 'get away' with doping. As I am sure you are well aware before making you ridiculously prejudicial post, over 70% of Australian pharmaceuticals are now sourced in China, or have core components sourced in China.

You appear, sadly, to be one of 'those' Australians that still looks down on China as some inferior country or somehow not as 'pure' as Australia. I can assure you that is not the case. They now have very sophisticated production methods for just about everything. Their prices are lower as they have an over-supply of workers and very little worker protection (although that is changing daily) but it does NOT always mean you are getting 'inferior' products.

If any AFL players have taken an Advil in the last four years... then ASADA can paint a 'supply chain leading to China' pretty easily too... The fact that CHARTERS (NOT employed by EFC) sourced some TB4 from China has absolutely ZERO bearing on this case... other than to create media sensationalism relying on the natural Xenophobia that some Australians, such as yourself, still sadly feel. ASADA can show Charters importing 100kg of Steroids from China if they like.. doesn't make one ounce of difference to a case against EFC players until they can prove that A) the supplements were ordered by EFC (not an agent but an authorised officer of the club), B) the supplements were intended for use by Athletes, C) the supplements WERE delivered to the club (like the physical club, not an employee) and D) the supplements were administered to individual athletes. As far as we know.. ASADA can't do any of that.. not even close. So I really don't give a s**t that the can prove a small amount of TB4 was ordered by Charters and arrived in this country from the big, bad and scary CHINA...

Compared to the job some Doping bodies have to try and catch REAL doping cheats... this is nothing.. this is ONLY complicated because ASADA are trying to draw imaginary lines to connect impossible events to create a narrative that makes them look competent and justify their over-inflated budgets. IF any player thought they had actually been given TB4 then I would expect deals made last year.. but they have steadfastly stated they are innocent.

How about you try trusting the players for once rather than McDumbnuts and the media??

A 'slam dunk' case does NOT take 2 years to investigate and have THREE different ASADA lawyers recommend that they don't proceed. You are aware that is what the delay was between August last year and the issuing of SCN's in June right? They didn't want to move forward because they knew they would lose.. and then McDumbnuts was told that you can issue SCN's on the 'possibility' of doping.. and so ahead they went..

Until there is one single CLEAN piece of evidence that suggests the players were given TB4 then I will support, believe and trust in them.

 

[jmoo wan]

what i wrote to robbo...

Football isn’t the most important thing in the world, but in this city it comes close. As one famous quote reads ‘football is the most important of the less important things.

This city breathes football, its tribal. You are born into bloodlines that carry you though a football supporting life until you pass them onto your kids. There’s no changing it, there’s no supressing it, it’s there for ever, like a splinter in your soul. Of course it ebbs and flows; as a child it’s your everything, those players are like gods amongst men. As a teen it ebbs a little while you find out what’s at the bottom of a brown bottle and the allure of the opposite sex…but it’s still there. You can pretend not to care but when a news report of your club comes on you stop to listen. You still get the adrenaline during a close game or feel the eyes welling at a close loss.

It’s also a social binder, people are known by who they support sometimes more than by who they are. Football is a leveller, it’s not uncommon to see blue collar workers, white collar workers, scholars, immigrants, all sitting around the one bar table discussing football. These are things that don’t normally happen in society, but for our game.

I was in a happy little routine as a proud Bombers supporter, I’d go to work and debate all day long about the state of the game, who was good, who was bad, Quite often with people that I don’t even know by name, only by who their team is. The best part about these arguments is there is no winners, there is no wrong answer, its all about opinions. Your rebuttals can go back to having won 16 flags, to how good the kids on your list are, to that time we beat you by a point after the siren.

These moments of football banter got me through the long days, the longs weeks of work that are sometimes mundane. Its was my escape.

Then something happened, the so called worst day in sporting history happened.

As a bombers fan this was our twin towers, our Bali bombings, the day we lost our innocence and as it happens our ability to hold any moral ground in any footballing debate from that point forward. The anger builds inside me as I try and make my point when I hear from the other side of the table, well at least we aren’t drug cheats…..

Know it alls trying to tell me why I should hate Hird, because they read the latest newspaper article. Know it alls suddenly experts in bio chemisty or contract law. Journos strumming our pain with their pens as they straddle the lines of propaganda while they blatantly put forward the rhetoric of whichever side they are leaking for. The club with its back up, bound, looking for any angle of retort.

This turned into a media war with leak and counter leak, spin and counter spin to a point where the original points of debate were lost months ago. As with any war, its always the same, there is collateral damage and the innocent people are the ones to get hurt. This saga has been reported to saturation point via every possible angle, except for one, the Bombers fans, nobody has stopped for a single moment to think or report how this has been for us.

What were we supposed to do? Of course we had to stand by our club who told us the truth will come....the longer we waited the more abuse we received from everybody in society who has been against us from the start, while their anger was being fanned by the daily papers. Kids in school being teased as drug cheats before they should know what drugs are. We have been marooned like hapless fools while the club made promises, each weak move the board made, made us look more the fool. The strong amongst us kept up the fight for months, we believed the truth would come despite the bombardment from all angles. But after a while it became too much, repeating the same answers to the same idiotic accusations – sheep believing every aspect of what they are served without an ounce of free thought or perspective.

Well im tired.

I cant do it anymore, and I know I’m not the only one, I no longer seek out the people in the work corridor to chat about football, I no longer visit the football chat rooms or forums, its too painful. I used to love reading the paper from the back in the morning – I no longer buy it. The sports report on the news? Change the channel.

I am at my lowest ebb as a football fan, the flame is flickering, and I know for a fact this is happening across Melbourne and not just From the red and black end. This needs to end before the damage is irreplaceable, please put down your guns, put your proof if any on the table ASADA, and end this so we can all move on.

I know that this stain will always be there, and if an argument gets hard the mug on the other side will always bring up the drugs, no matter if we are found innocent or guilty. But I can wear that, it’s the price we pay for what’s happened.

Lets finish this so I can get my footy life back

hang in there mate, it's just about over and Bombers very confident.

 

[carnthedons]

what i wrote to robbo...

Football isn’t the most important thing in the world, but in this city it comes close. As one famous quote reads ‘football is the most important of the less important things.

This city breathes football, its tribal. You are born into bloodlines that carry you though a football supporting life until you pass them onto your kids. There’s no changing it, there’s no supressing it, it’s there for ever, like a splinter in your soul. Of course it ebbs and flows; as a child it’s your everything, those players are like gods amongst men. As a teen it ebbs a little while you find out what’s at the bottom of a brown bottle and the allure of the opposite sex…but it’s still there. You can pretend not to care but when a news report of your club comes on you stop to listen. You still get the adrenaline during a close game or feel the eyes welling at a close loss.

It’s also a social binder, people are known by who they support sometimes more than by who they are. Football is a leveller, it’s not uncommon to see blue collar workers, white collar workers, scholars, immigrants, all sitting around the one bar table discussing football. These are things that don’t normally happen in society, but for our game.

I was in a happy little routine as a proud Bombers supporter, I’d go to work and debate all day long about the state of the game, who was good, who was bad, Quite often with people that I don’t even know by name, only by who their team is. The best part about these arguments is there is no winners, there is no wrong answer, its all about opinions. Your rebuttals can go back to having won 16 flags, to how good the kids on your list are, to that time we beat you by a point after the siren.

These moments of football banter got me through the long days, the longs weeks of work that are sometimes mundane. Its was my escape.

Then something happened, the so called worst day in sporting history happened.

As a bombers fan this was our twin towers, our Bali bombings, the day we lost our innocence and as it happens our ability to hold any moral ground in any footballing debate from that point forward. The anger builds inside me as I try and make my point when I hear from the other side of the table, well at least we aren’t drug cheats…..

Know it alls trying to tell me why I should hate Hird, because they read the latest newspaper article. Know it alls suddenly experts in bio chemisty or contract law. Journos strumming our pain with their pens as they straddle the lines of propaganda while they blatantly put forward the rhetoric of whichever side they are leaking for. The club with its back up, bound, looking for any angle of retort.

This turned into a media war with leak and counter leak, spin and counter spin to a point where the original points of debate were lost months ago. As with any war, its always the same, there is collateral damage and the innocent people are the ones to get hurt. This saga has been reported to saturation point via every possible angle, except for one, the Bombers fans, nobody has stopped for a single moment to think or report how this has been for us.

What were we supposed to do? Of course we had to stand by our club who told us the truth will come....the longer we waited the more abuse we received from everybody in society who has been against us from the start, while their anger was being fanned by the daily papers. Kids in school being teased as drug cheats before they should know what drugs are. We have been marooned like hapless fools while the club made promises, each weak move the board made, made us look more the fool. The strong amongst us kept up the fight for months, we believed the truth would come despite the bombardment from all angles. But after a while it became too much, repeating the same answers to the same idiotic accusations – sheep believing every aspect of what they are served without an ounce of free thought or perspective.

Well im tired.

I cant do it anymore, and I know I’m not the only one, I no longer seek out the people in the work corridor to chat about football, I no longer visit the football chat rooms or forums, its too painful. I used to love reading the paper from the back in the morning – I no longer buy it. The sports report on the news? Change the channel.

I am at my lowest ebb as a football fan, the flame is flickering, and I know for a fact this is happening across Melbourne and not just From the red and black end. This needs to end before the damage is irreplaceable, please put down your guns, put your proof if any on the table ASADA, and end this so we can all move on.

I know that this stain will always be there, and if an argument gets hard the mug on the other side will always bring up the drugs, no matter if we are found innocent or guilty. But I can wear that, it’s the price we pay for what’s happened.

Lets finish this so I can get my footy life back

Good read.

I know what you mean about not knowing people's names, you've got a generic face like a pink balloon

 

[Drummer_19]

What's the worse that could happen? players receive bans,they say **** off and keep playing it's not like Asada/AFL can hold a gun to their head and force them to miss games.

 

[The Prosecutor]

What's the worse that could happen? players receive bans,they say **** off and keep playing it's not like Asada/AFL can hold a gun to their head and force them to miss games.

Jesus Christ, this s**t again?