Charter underwrote bought peptides were not for human use

[Armchair Critic]

But than, do we know the full contense of the report?

Agree, I don't think it is likely that this kind of thing would have gone unnoticed by the ACC , is it possible it is still being investigated by the relevant parties.

It is possible but I believe it would have been hinted at in the ACC report so IMO it is very unlikely, all the indications in the ACC report were that these drugs were administered to players at the football clubs. If the ACC report thought that Dank was ripping the club off and using it as a front to increase his business through Fraud I doubt the indications at use of prohibited substances would have been so strong

I just fail to see the link, Dank used Prohibited substances on Earl, Dank used prohibited substances at Cronulla but then committed Fraud at Essendon and was actually using the prohibited substances for patients in his business, which in reality he is only a Shareholder in.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

You raise some interesting points. If I had to guess, I would say their case goes something like this:

1. Charter buys TB4 from China.
2. Takes it to Alavi to compound.
3. Alavi does the work then gives it to Dank.
4. Dank says he gives it to another pharmacy for testing but they destroy it. (though note the pharmacy says they never received nor destroyed anything)
5. Essendon players then receive 'Thymosin' injections using same dosage instructions as TB4.
6. Essendon say players received legal Thymosin (though they appear to be having trouble showing purchase records of the legal kind)

Edit - And somewhere in there some interesting things take place about crediting/backdating invoices.

Yeah that's right.

And to plug up the supposed hole in ASADA's case where they won't be able to prove categorically that the players were administered the TB-4, it seems that there is a...

7. ASADA have not accepted the 'Ummm, my dog ate the records that prove we're innocent'.
8. As a result ASADA accuse Dank of a cover up.

 

[blackshadow]

The most interesting thing about this article is that Large Fries wrote it.

Is this a late attempt to pretend that he has been a neutral all along and thus distance himself from the coming stench?

Perhaps after a Walkley nomination he's decided he really should put on his journalist hat now and then.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[gavaniacono]

My amazement that there has to date been no player / family law suit lodged gainst Essendon for breach of duty of care etc. grows with every post. If my child was involved I would have done this at the outset of the saga.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

My amazement that there has to date been no player / family law suit lodged gainst Essendon for breach of duty of care etc. grows with every post. If my child was involved I would have done this at the outset of the saga.

I'm dumbfounded too.

It's the main reason I don't have sympathy for the players. I can't help but feel they're covering their arses. Anyone in their right mind would break away from the pack mentality and demand answers.

It's genuinely staggering.

 

[blackshadow]

I'm dumbfounded too.

It's the main reason I don't have sympathy for the players. I can't help but feel they're covering their arses. Anyone in their right mind would break away from the pack mentality and demand answers.

It's genuinely staggering.

Cult like?

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[BlueWorld]

Nope neither of the two options works - always links just to the Australian version.

Use new private window in firefox.

 

[BlueWorld]

My amazement that there has to date been no player / family law suit lodged gainst Essendon for breach of duty of care etc. grows with every post. If my child was involved I would have done this at the outset of the saga.

When Mr Charter had subsequently placed an order to import a larger quantity of peptides, he was asked to provide a written undertaking that they were not intended for human use.

Why are the AFLPA acting as though ASADA are the bad guys? Players given substances not intended for human use. Where is the outrage? Why do the players continue to support the club and act as though they are acting in their best interests?

 

[Gigantor]

Suggested?

Is Thymomodulin often referred to as Thymosin over in China, and why do we all know that? Who constantly mentioned this here?

No one has ever suggested Charter purchased Thymomodulin.

What I have stated consistently on this board is that this particular supplier differentiated between "thymosin" and "thymosin beta 4", and that there are countless suppliers who market Thymosin (Thymomodulin) - all are encouraged to do that very search and confirm for themselves.

All of that is to demonsatrate that "thymosin" does not necessarily equal "thymosin beta 4".

Let us recall the crux of ASADA's case:

• the consent forms refer to "thymosin"
• 34 players signed consent forms
• therefore 34 players were administered with TB4

 

[Ancient Tiger]

I wonder if Essendon have been able to produce an invoice for the good thymosin?

No one has ever suggested Charter purchased Thymomodulin.

What I have stated consistently on this board is that this particular supplier differentiated between "thymosin" and "thymosin beta 4", and that there are countless suppliers who market Thymosin (Thymomodulin) - all are encouraged to do that very search and confirm for themselves.

All of that is to demonsatrate that "thymosin" does not necessarily equal "thymosin beta 4".

Let us recall the crux of ASADA's case:

• the consent forms refer to "thymosin"
• 34 players signed consent forms
• therefore 34 players were administered with TB4

Have you clicked onto thymosin on Danks's own site GG? Since he helped write the consents......

 

[Gigantor]

So I guess the case is all over for ASADA. Might as well pack up their bags, switch off the lights.....

Essendon and or Dank have receipts for thymomodulin.

Oh wait, they don't have receipts for thymomodulin.

But even if they lost the receipts for the thymomodulin, they surely would have the name of the supplier and they could come forth and give evidence for the purchase of thymomodulin.


Oh wait! They don't have the name of a supplier for thymomodulin! There is no witness for the supply of thymomodulin!


So now we have a conundrum GG. We have players admitting to taking "thymosin". The only thymosin that Dank can show he purchased is TB-4. The only thymosin on his own website is TB-4. The only evidence of thymomodulin is a dodgy photo of a single ampoule and a statement by the team captain saying what was used looked similar to that dodgy photo. But the team is confident that what was used was thymomodulin. I wish I could believe them but they are not filling me with great confidence. Surely they have some evidence that they purchased the "good thymosin"?

I just wish they'd show us.....

No my good friend, I am not suggesting that it's all over for ASADA.

I am suggesting the same thing I have suggested for months, confirmed McDevitt himself, that there are gaps in ASADA's evdience.

Gaps which the majority on this board are not keen on discussing.

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

Why are the AFLPA acting as though ASADA are the bad guys? Players given substances not intended for human use. Where is the outrage? Why do the players continue to support the club and act as though they are acting in their best interests?

I know.

Just extraordinary.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Have you clicked onto thymosin on Danks's own site GG? Since he helped write the consents......

GG's favourite book is obviously 50 Shades of Grey.

 

[FuManchu]

Perhaps after a Walkley nomination he's decided he really should put on his journalist hat now and then.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

I figure he's good for one good article a year.

 

[Gigantor]

GG we are way over the bridge already.
And do you expect the receipts would be made out in big letters "ESSENDON FOOTBALL CLUB - but don't tell anyone!"
You obviously have not been exposed to the illegal drug world or criminality of any kind. Heck, naivety is kind of cute.

McDevitt himself has publicly stated that there are gaps in the evidence, and that is obvious from what we have seen in the public domain.

The private conclusions of the majority on this board matter little, it's what the defence will do with ASADA's star witness (should he ever make into the witness box).

Only yesterday I had the good fortune of examining 8 different cases which ASADA had prosecuted which related to non-presence violations.

They made very intersting reading and I urge all to take a look for your own education.

 

[Gigantor]

GG's favourite book is obviously 50 Shades of Grey.

heh, heh, as someone aspiring to be a man of letters, my tastes in books is sufficiently high brow

But to the main point, yes, plenty of grey, and that is what the defence will be emphasising in the tribunal.

 

[SugarCoat]

Isn't it up to Essendon now and it's players to provide evidence they used the legal Thymomodulin?
As a complete neutral, you can now see why ASADA believe the banned TB4 is the peptide that has been supplied.

 

[Gigantor]

Have you clicked onto thymosin on Danks's own site GG? Since he helped write the consents......

Another poster raised this same point the other day, that Dank's anti-aging clinic only markets TB4.

Now I say to you AT, cannot that bit of evidence be looked at both ways?

How do you think the defence will look at it?

Don't worry about how you look at it or how I look at it, how well the defence look at it?

ASADA's evidence is that this anti-aging clinic paid for the TB4 which Alavi had compounded, and lo and behold, what do you know? This anti-aging clinic markets TB4 to the public.

Have a think of what the defence will make of that.

 

[Gigantor]

Isn't it up to Essendon now and it's players to provide evidence they used the legal Thymomodulin?

It would help, but no, it is not necessary.

 

[markm106]

My amazement that there has to date been no player / family law suit lodged gainst Essendon for breach of duty of care etc. grows with every post. If my child was involved I would have done this at the outset of the saga.

This may come depending on the outcome. However we have had Ryder threaten to take them on in court with him wanting out.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

No my good friend, I am not suggesting that it's all over for ASADA.

I am suggesting the same thing I have suggested for months, confirmed McDevitt himself, that there are gaps in ASADA's evdience.

Gaps which the majority on this board are not keen on discussing.

Of course there are gaps in the defence. You would expect that when either:
1) The accused party is innocent
2) The accused party has destroyed all the records and kept everyone at arms length with regards to purchasing of prohibited substances.

The problem now is differentiating 1) from 2).

For 1) to be plausible Essendon/Dank must have records of "good" thymosin use and purchase. Even if there are no records, there must be someone that can state they sold either Dank or Essendon the "good" thymosin. So far we have seen neither! Zero. Zilch.

So MOST REASONABLE people who considered 1) a possibility would now consider 2) far more likely, at least to a comfortable level of satisfaction.

Are you starting to follow the logic GG?

 

[Tango67]

the gaps in ASADA's evidence are hairline compared to the grand canyon size gaps in Essendons evidence

 

[Armchair Critic]

Another poster raised this same point the other day, that Dank's anti-aging clinic only markets TB4.

Now I say to you AT, cannot that bit of evidence be looked at both ways?

How do you think the defence will look at it?

Don't worry about how you look at it or how I look at it, how well the defence look at it?

ASADA's evidence is that this anti-aging clinic paid for the TB4 which Alavi had compounded, and lo and behold, what do you know? This anti-aging clinic markets TB4 to the public.

Have a think of what the defence will make of that.

Twice you have said it, yet you still have not provided a link. Also Dank is only a Shareholder in the company, he has no patients there.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

Another poster raised this same point the other day, that Dank's anti-aging clinic only markets TB4.

Now I say to you AT, cannot that bit of evidence be looked at both ways?

How do you think the defence will look at it?

Don't worry about how you look at it or how I look at it, how well the defence look at it?

ASADA's evidence is that this anti-aging clinic paid for the TB4 which Alavi had compounded, and lo and behold, what do you know? This anti-aging clinic markets TB4 to the public.

Have a think of what the defence will make of that.

I'm not sure the defence will be happy to spout out that the only thing Dank markets is TB-4 my dear friend......

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

the gaps in ASADA's evidence are hairline compared to the grand canyon size gaps in Essendons evidence

But as I posted earlier, it may be the case that ASADA are blaming the gaps in their case on Dank covering everything up.

That changes things. If ASADA went in and said 'yeah nah, there are some gaps here but we couldn't really find anything else so, yeah, I suppose there is a bit of a chance that they didn't take TB-4' then I'd agree that the case could be argued against.

But if the charge sheet also accuses Dank of covering up the use of banned drugs (as the article states) then ASADA won't do that.

I'd imagine they'll go in there and say 'the gaps are only there because these crooks have been covering their tracks. And here's what we have on that....'.


I think the 'gap defence' won't work. You can't use the gap defence if it obvious that you created the gaps yourself!