Charter underwrote bought peptides were not for human use

[Lavender Bushranger]

its likely he was using it in a similar manner to why he was using 'thymosin' at Essendon, to negate the immunity reducing affects of heavy training. Or is it possible he was using TB4 to help heal the fracture but calling it thymomodulin. Everyone seems to think that was the case at Essendon

It'd be unusual for him to believe that an immunity booster is the cornerstone of their program though, wouldn't it?

 

[onemancyclone]

its likely he was using it in a similar manner to why he was using 'thymosin' at Essendon, to negate the immunity reducing affects of heavy training. Or is it possible he was using TB4 to help heal the fracture but calling it thymomodulin. Everyone seems to think that was the case at Essendon

Actually, nobody thinks it's the case that he was referring to the drug as thymomodulin while working at Essendon. The only time the drug suddenly became thymomodulin was when Dank realised he ****ed up on national television.

 

[bing181]

According to the article the Thymomodulin injection at the time was canceled , is there any evidence he actually received the injections in the end or are people just speculating that he received the injections

Speculation.

 

[mxett]

Actually, nobody thinks it's the case that he was referring to the drug as thymomodulin while working at Essendon. The only time the drug suddenly became thymomodulin was when Dank realised he ****** up on national television.

so youre saying he made the thymomodulin story up after realising thymosin was banned in 2013? Interesting given there are texts and files mentioning thymomodulin in 2012

 

[mxett]

It'd be unusual for him to believe that an immunity booster is the cornerstone of their program though, wouldn't it?

nothing would surprise me with a guy who was giving pigs brain extracts to young athletes

 

[onemancyclone]

so youre saying he made the thymomodulin story up after realising thymosin was banned in 2013? Interesting given there are texts and files mentioning thymomodulin in 2012

You're intent on either putting words in people's mouths, or paraphrasing in a manner to advantage and build capital for your own arguments. The most reliable indicator of what I'm saying is my posts, not yours.

 

[Armchair Critic]

nothing would surprise me with a guy who was giving pigs brain extracts to young athletes

The athletes were allowing him to and the club Dr was not stopping him

 

[LoungeLizard]

so youre saying he made the thymomodulin story up after realising thymosin was banned in 2013? Interesting given there are texts and files mentioning thymomodulin in 2012

Why would he refer to it as thymomodulin at one club and thymosin at another?

 

[Argy]

so youre saying he made the thymomodulin story up after realising thymosin was banned in 2013? Interesting given there are texts and files mentioning thymomodulin in 2012

I'm genuinely interested. Can you post a link?

 

[mxett]

You're intent on either putting words in people's mouths, or paraphrasing in a manner to advantage and build capital for your own arguments. The most reliable indicator of what I'm saying is my posts, not yours.

so exactly what are you saying about Danks reference to thymomodulin regarding Essendon and Melbourne?

 

[mxett]

Why would he refer to it as thymomodulin at one club and thymosin at another?

goog question.

I'm genuinely interested. Can you post a link?

the texts between Dank and Melbournes Dr Bates have been posted in this thread. Asada found records describing thymomodulin use at Essendon

 

[kfc1]

I think there are a couple of accounts on here that are consistently bringing up misleading 'facts' to somehow raise the bar in this case.

Comfortable satisfaction does not mean that ASADA must prove that each and every player had a banned a drug enter their veins. ASADA has to be able to demonstrate that it is 'more than likely' that the players were given a banned substance. Having a supply trail from the original supplier, through the importer to the compounding chemist and then onto a sports scientist at the Essendon goes a long way to achieving this. Being able to demonstrate that the players have signed documentation stating they are agreeing to being injected with Thymosin and there is no viable alternative form of Thymosin to TB4 adds to the strength of the case. Details like injection schedules and admissions made by players in their interviews provide corroborative support to the evidence previously dicsussed.

What it will come down to is the panel looking at the evidence that we know of and the evidence that we don't yet know and making certain decisions.

1. Was there TB4 at Essendon? There probably was
2. Was it supplied to the players? Again, it probably was.

Note, the answers were not "yes, it definitely was" to either question because the level of proof required isn't that rigorous.

I would suggest that to achieve 'comfortable satisfaction' ASADA may be able to show there was a supplements program that involved banned substances and that the 34 players were involved in that program will be sufficient.

Comfortable satisfaction is at the level of "it probably happened and in my opinion it did". All the talk of having to show for each individual that its was definitely injected and it definitely happened on such a date(s) and so many times etc is complete rubbish. The level of proof required is nowhere near that specific.

Thats not to say the defence cannot question the links in the chain but there are those on here who are completely exaggerating how robust the ASADA needs to be.

You left out the most important point - ASADA must prove an individual used TB4, not just a group of players.

 

[Ancient Tiger]

You left out the most important point - ASADA must prove an individual used TB4, not just a group of players.

I assume that is where the player confessions and consents come in to the equation.
For example. Player A says "Yeah, I was injected with stuff the Doc called thymosin" and "Yeah that's my signature on the consent that allows me to have thymosin". With a paper trail that leads to TB-4 being at Essendon and no paper trail for other thymosin types, and the dosage regime fitting one type of thymosin and not another, that might just be enough to prove to a comfortable level of satisfaction that they did indeed have TB-4 injected into them.

Thoughts?

 

[mxett]

I assume that is where the player confessions and consents come in to the equation.
For example. Player A says "Yeah, I was injected with stuff the Doc called thymosin" and "Yeah that's my signature on the consent that allows me to have thymosin". With a paper trail that leads to TB-4 being at Essendon and no paper trail for other thymosin types, and the dosage regime fitting one type of thymosin and not another, that might just be enough to prove to a comfortable level of satisfaction that they did indeed have TB-4 injected into them.

Thoughts?

when you put it like that its seems all so elementary. So why the hell arent ANY players, past and present, at the club or at other clubs, willing to deal for a possible light sanction?? Why are they ALL willing to risk a long ban when the veidence we know looks so damning? Why are the AFLPA fully behind their stance?

someting just doesnt add up

 

[Satan]

when you put it like that its seems all so elementary. So why the hell arent ANY players, past and present, at the club or at other clubs, willing to deal for a possible light sanction?? Why are they ALL willing to risk a long ban when the veidence we know looks so damning? Why are the AFLPA fully behind their stance?

someting just doesnt add up

Maybe any alleged deals that were on the table went off the table when Hird and efc went to court. I dont believe anything said by efc etc . asada has a bit more credibility only because Mcdevitt being liberal with the facts will cause him and Asada more grief if he has been to liberal.The efc has only its members to answer too and most of them have taken their actions hook line and sinker.

 

[Mattrox]

You left out the most important point - ASADA must prove an individual used TB4, not just a group of players.

A consent form with thymosin shows they took it or had planned to.

Intent to dope is banned too.

 

[fabulousphil]

No. The players holding steady with their club may or may not mean they think they are innocent. What it definitely means is they have no critical eye to cast over the actions of their club. They are not only naive but foolish, and possibly gutless too.

says the internet hero

 

[LoungeLizard]

when you put it like that its seems all so elementary. So why the hell arent ANY players, past and present, at the club or at other clubs, willing to deal for a possible light sanction?? Why are they ALL willing to risk a long ban when the veidence we know looks so damning? Why are the AFLPA fully behind their stance?

someting just doesnt add up

I agree there is something for sure that doesn't add up.
What i don't get though, it would be way easier to go intent, why are ASADA going the use route?

 

[mxett]

Maybe any alleged deals that were on the table went off the table when Hird and efc went to court. I dont believe anything said by efc etc . asada has a bit more credibility only because Mcdevitt being liberal with the facts will cause him and Asada more grief if he has been to liberal.The efc has only its members to answer too and most of them have taken their actions hook line and sinker.

McDevitt claimed they were willing to make a deal with players only last weekend

 

[Clems Knee]

Why would he refer to it as thymomodulin at one club and thymosin at another?

Because he used Thymomodulin at one club, and Thymosin at another. It's the simplest answer. Dank knows the difference between the two, otherwise he wouldn't have used two different names in his texts.
That's my guess.

when you put it like that its seems all so elementary. So why the hell arent ANY players, past and present, at the club or at other clubs, willing to deal for a possible light sanction?? Why are they ALL willing to risk a long ban when the veidence we know looks so damning? Why are the AFLPA fully behind their stance?

someting just doesnt add up

Firstly, if past players are willing to deal for a light sanction, we would not know about it, I believe? According to the fat lecturer, you can go to jail for revealing such information.

Also, although that Caro article came out, there has been no other evidence of deals being offered. It is quite possible that ASADA know they are in a strong position, and are not willing to reduce sentences.

There are two possible reasons why the remaining players are sticking together.
One is, as you say, they don't believe they have done anything wrong. The evidence that is in the public domain shows that something wrong happened. If they truly believe nothing wrong happened, they must have the morality of a West Coast Eagle.
Or, they know that one person splits from the story and everyone goes down. We have already seen a level of bullying from Spike towards a past player who expressed concern as to what was happening. Reimers got no support from anyone, even though what he said was more accurate than McVeigh's vitamins.

Lastly, the AFLPA is the player's Union. It is not their job to cast judgement on the players or cut them adrift. It is the AFLPA's job to represent the players and provide them with legal counsel. You can't draw any inferences on that basis.

 

[Clems Knee]

McDevitt claimed they were willing to make a deal with players only last weekend

Source?

 

[mxett]

I agree there is something for sure that doesn't add up.
What i don't get though, it would be way easier to go intent, why are ASADA going the use route?

Maybe intent requires an a desire to knowingly take banned substances where as they appear to believe players didnt know. who knows. All i know is the players are all holding firm despite what appears to be a very dire looking course of evnts from the outside.

if any players had an injury and were likely to miss preseason and maybe a few games at the beginning of next year surely they would have made a deal long ago.

 

[FuManchu]

Although you would not use thymomodulin for injury recovery.

So you admit he would use TB4 for injury recovery and given footballers get injured, TB4 would be a useful substance?

That's all we needed to know.

 

[FuManchu]

Yeah - It's got to the point where if Jobe came into the tribunal, stripped off and jumped into a kiddy pool of TB4 and gargled it singing "TB4 forever" some posters would still try and raise doubt. There's not much to gain from being on the HTB now other than to get news updates quickly.

The GG would say its the kiddies fault and that McDevitt used them to set up an unsuspecting watson.

 

[mxett]

Because he used Thymomodulin at one club, and Thymosin at another. It's the simplest answer. Dank knows the difference between the two, otherwise he wouldn't have used two different names in his texts.
That's my guess.



Firstly, if past players are willing to deal for a light sanction, we would not know about it, I believe? According to the fat lecturer, you can go to jail for revealing such information.

Also, although that Caro article came out, there has been no other evidence of deals being offered. It is quite possible that ASADA know they are in a strong position, and are not willing to reduce sentences.

There are two possible reasons why the remaining players are sticking together.
One is, as you say, they don't believe they have done anything wrong. The evidence that is in the public domain shows that something wrong happened. If they truly believe nothing wrong happened, they must have the morality of a West Coast Eagle.
Or, they know that one person splits from the story and everyone goes down. We have already seen a level of bullying from Spike towards a past player who expressed concern as to what was happening. Reimers got no support from anyone, even though what he said was more accurate than McVeigh's vitamins.

Lastly, the AFLPA is the player's Union. It is not their job to cast judgement on the players or cut them adrift. It is the AFLPA's job to represent the players and provide them with legal counsel. You can't draw any inferences on that basis.

as i said earlier, McDevitt is still stating ASADA are willing to deal with players, which you would think offers them a shorter sentence than taking on the charges and losing. After ll, what sort of a deal gives you the full sentence? This leads me to believe the players and their legal counsel not only believe they havent done anything wrong but the believe they have a strong enough case to take what looks like a vry risky gamble.

as for bullying, why would that matter to ex essendon players? in dire circumstances its almost alwas every man for himself, and if the players are no longer influenced or part of Essendon they wouldnt worry about repurcusions