Analysis Adams, Fasolo, Seedsman, Sinclair, Thomas, Williams

[Ketchup]

Ketchup with all respect Smithy benefits from having a great midfield around him, they all boost each other by sharing the load but taken out of that situation would he appear - and I MEAN appear - to be as damaging.

I doubt it, few would appear so, also there is the cache of playing in a dual premiership team. Taken all in all Smithy certainly IS a jet but lets not go overboard.

I guess a few extra years would be a better comparison considering Smith has had longer in the system

But, with that said, lets not forget prior to this year many "experts" (weather they were right or wrong is another debate) were of the opinion that we were in the top bracket of midfields in the league (Pendles, Swan, Thomas, Beams, Ball and Sidebottom) were all in our midfield last year and the year before that when Seedsman was at the club. So to say that Seedsman also hasn't had the benefit up to this point is questionable.

If Seedsman is going to get close to the output that Smith brings he has to "break out" this season, for mine im not sure if he looks like doing it.

Edit: I must admit I didn't realise Smith was 26 at the end of the year, thought he was younger than that

 

[jonbe54]

I guess a few extra years would be a better comparison considering Smith has had longer in the system

But, with that said, lets not forget prior to this year many "experts" (weather they were right or wrong is another debate) were of the opinion that we were in the top bracket of midfields in the league (Pendles, Swan, Thomas, Beams, Ball and Sidebottom) were all in our midfield last year and the year before that when Seedsman was at the club. So to say that Seedsman also hasn't had the benefit up to this point is questionable.

If Seedsman is going to get close to the output that Smith brings he has to "break out" this season, for mine im not sure if he looks like doing it.

Edit: I must admit I didn't realise Smith was 26 at the end of the year, thought he was younger than that

Agreed about the Seed playing 'sort of' alongside our great midfield but we need to remember that he hasn't always played in the same position, like a few he has been moved around and it shows. As you also note he is a bit younger, and of course he has had his fair share of injuries lately.

All that being acknowleged it's not easy to see him soaring into the upper brackets at this stage. Give him a couple of seasons where he can get a run at it with a full preseason and a settled playing position within a stable playing group and we may just be surprised. He does have some nice tricks, perhaps a little bit of good fortune and stability may allow him to blossom.

 

[mike123]

Thing is there is no such thing as a wingman anymore. It would be a liability to have a guy stay on the wing the whole time, a (wingmans) in a job a good team like hill is push deep in defence and deep forward and also cover the other side of the ground. How many blokes do you see just stand on a wing when the passage of play is on the other side of the ground? None. Everyone follows the ball.
Our best (wingman) is Sidebottom. I prefer to call it as a gut runner. He is the best player we have for consistently running up and down the ground.

Really? I heard that there were these brothers that were wingers, they even played on each other in a grandfinal on the wing.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Really? I heard that there were these brothers that were wingers, they even played on each other in a grandfinal on the wing.

Glad they never ventured in to GA or WD or they would've been penalised.

 

[cleomenes]

Seedsman is no more than a potentially good player. Fasolo is the same. The injuries that have cruelled their respective progresses so far are an explanation for where they stand, but they both need to show something in the coming season, or the club will have to look elsewhere. Next year, they will both have to get substantially more of the ball, and they will have to be accurate with their kicks. They are both stylish long kicks, but absolute accuracy is not yet proven. They can both mark, but have to go past the 50% success point in the contested marks. They have not yet done so.
If these two, and a couple of the others on the list for this thread really do kick on, then Collingwood will be a threatening side in 2015. If none of them do, then we are in a bit of trouble, even with the hoped for injury free year for the big name players.

 

[jackcass]

I guess a few extra years would be a better comparison considering Smith has had longer in the system

But, with that said, lets not forget prior to this year many "experts" (weather they were right or wrong is another debate) were of the opinion that we were in the top bracket of midfields in the league (Pendles, Swan, Thomas, Beams, Ball and Sidebottom) were all in our midfield last year and the year before that when Seedsman was at the club. So to say that Seedsman also hasn't had the benefit up to this point is questionable.

If Seedsman is going to get close to the output that Smith brings he has to "break out" this season, for mine im not sure if he looks like doing it.

Edit: I must admit I didn't realise Smith was 26 at the end of the year, thought he was younger than that

And was significantly older when he was drafted from memory, 21-22, something like that.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

Seedsman is no more than a potentially good player. Fasolo is the same. The injuries that have cruelled their respective progresses so far are an explanation for where they stand, but they both need to show something in the coming season, or the club will have to look elsewhere. Next year, they will both have to get substantially more of the ball, and they will have to be accurate with their kicks. They are both stylish long kicks, but absolute accuracy is not yet proven. They can both mark, but have to go past the 50% success point in the contested marks. They have not yet done so.
If these two, and a couple of the others on the list for this thread really do kick on, then Collingwood will be a threatening side in 2015. If none of them do, then we are in a bit of trouble, even with the hoped for injury free year for the big name players.

I actually think both Seed and Fas will make it long term. The basics are there but they have to get consistency.

Not so sure on Thomas and Kennedy.

 

[jackcass]

I actually think both Seed and Fas will make it long term. The basics are there but they have to get consistency.

Not so sure on Thomas and Kennedy.

Agree on Fasolo and Seedsman but I'm confident on both Thomas and Kennedy as well. Thomas a little less so but only because his body seems to struggle with the rigours of AFL footy and that may ultimately count against him. Kennedy had some issues with his legs that were corrected by surgery last off season, I think he'll be significantly better in 2015.

Sad as it is to contemplate though, some of these kids may not acheive consistent AFL footy at the Pies. Competition for senior spots should be fierce in 2015 and a few will get forced out through lack of senior opportunities.

 

[sr36]

Agree on Fasolo and Seedsman but I'm confident on both Thomas and Kennedy as well. Thomas a little less so but only because his body seems to struggle with the rigours of AFL footy and that may ultimately count against him. Kennedy had some issues with his legs that were corrected by surgery last off season, I think he'll be significantly better in 2015.

Sad as it is to contemplate though, some of these kids may not acheive consistent AFL footy at the Pies. Competition for senior spots should be fierce in 2015 and a few will get forced out through lack of senior opportunities.

Of those 4, I'm extremely confident about Kennedy and Fas, skeptical about Thomas and on the fence with Seeds.

 

[Lefthanded]

Key position players, hard to fit them all in without going top heavy. My guess is that Frost will put some body on and take over Brown. Reid is a hard one. I have him as a forward but I'm not sure if someone like Moore will overtake him or we'll use him as trade bait. Maybe when Moore develops Reid will go back to the backline but I couldn't find a spot for him down there. He probably take over from Keeffe but I really rate him and think he'll develop further so I'm really not sure.

I haven't read past page 2 of this thread yet but I'm with Gone Critical - Reid is best 22 in 2016 unless injured or traded (& I doubt we'd do the latter). If Moore has overtaken Reid in Moore's 2nd year than I'd suggest we can expect Darcy to win more Brownlow's than his Dad & that would be something.

 

[Lefthanded]

Part of this is coaching though surely, in that Seedsman needs to be allowed to nail down a position by consistently being picked in that position, instead of being thrown around all over the place from one game to the next? He had more consistency of role in 2013 and was beginning to show how valuable he can be. This year he wasn't consistently fit but when he was, he was thrown around all over the place

I agree part of it is coaching but that comes back to available players too. Injuries meant a lot of players were required to play out of position this year. It can be good for the team long term as sometimes you discover untapped potential or you end up with lots of flexibility which I believe is one of Hawthorn's greatest strengths.

 

[speedytiger]

Hugely Confident on Adams and Williams, hopeful on Thomas and the seed and be surprised if Fas or Sinclair make the top grade.

 

[Frankie23]

Rate Sinclair, agree that this year is make or break, but if he gets luck with injuries I think he can be our Nick Smith, shutting down the premier small forward and providing even more run at times. If he can nail that sop it releases Marley and provides stability in defence.

 

[mike123]

Adams, Williams and Seedsman will make it. Thomas, Fasolo and Sinclair will struggle to make it IMO.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Sinclair and Seedsman are on a knifes edge for mine. This is the last year to show something or they will meet the axe.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

havent read the thread but my view as follows

Adams - certainty to have a long career. Will play 200 games
Fasolo - interesting one. Ignore the ego, he lacks leg speed imo. But can tackle, can kick, can mark. I reckon he will make it but its line ball. Foot injuries a concern too but hes the kind of player you need to carry.
Seedsman - pace skill and height. three essential ingredients. Might not quite make it as a the AFLs first quadruple Brownlow medallist but will go close. Ok myabe I exaggerate. But very good chance to be a 150 gamer.
Sinclair - pace his only asset. Too many injuries, Suspect 2015 nwill be his last year at Collingwood. I hope he has another opporttunity elsewhere but suspect not.
Thomas - will be challenged by the influx of new "inside mids" at the club - Greenwood, Freeman, De Goey, Adams etc. Might struggle. I like him but again he might need to go elsewhere to further his career.
Williams - a keeper. Could be our number one small defender for a number of years. May also progress into the midfield.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I haven't read past page 2 of this thread yet but I'm with Gone Critical - Reid is best 22 in 2016 unless injured or traded (& I doubt we'd do the latter). If Moore has overtaken Reid in Moore's 2nd year than I'd suggest we can expect Darcy to win more Brownlow's than his Dad & that would be something.

His old man only won one Brownlow. And he only played for one club!! The rest of his football history should be erased from memory!!

 

[Markfs]

Elliot

 

[babyJonBourgois]

Adams, Williams and Seedsman will make it. Thomas, Fasolo and Sinclair will struggle to make it IMO.

Why do you think Fasolo will struggle to make it? If we play him forward and his attitude matures I still think he could be very valuable provided he can stay injury free. A lot of ifs but that's the nature of such speculation. Agree on the others, really hope the Seed can string some games together. What he added when he first came in last year was the only time I've felt the team showed glimpses of the gameplan Buckley envisions.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Lets face it none of these guys will be super stars. The best hope is Adams clearly. Fasolo possesses the most talent but there is something missing with him.
Injuries have plagued all of Thomas Fasolo Sinclair and Seedsman and to a lesser extent Adams and Williams who has battled his off field issues.
I don't hold hope for Seedsman inpartically 2015 after the hip issue.
Adams should be ok if he knuckles down, works on his kicking and stays injury free.
Sinclair i can see gettting delisted.
Fasolo needs 15-22 to games stay on the list.
Thomas Im unsure. Is he good enough.. He needs to produce every week in 2015 instead of the odd game.
Williams another Im unsure of. Hes a battler but not sure he will be around in 5 years.
Seedsman I think unfortunately might be on his last legs. Needs the hip to allow him to play well, if not at 23?.. hes gone for me.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Why do you think Fasolo will struggle to make it? If we play him forward and his attitude matures I still think he could be very valuable provided he can stay injury free. A lot of ifs but that's the nature of such speculation. Agree on the others, really hope the Seed can string some games together. What he added when he first came in last year was the only time I've felt the team showed glimpses of the gameplan Buckley envisions.

His foot is shot, if he shows its not a problem in 2015 and misses no games with it then keep him but if that thing flares up again hes gone.

 

[nahnah]

Adams - good player easily makes it
Williams - easily will make it as a lockdown back pocket or tagger
Seedsman- should make it on a wing
Thomas - opportunity to make it as an inside mid
Fasolo - not convinced at all, needs to find a spot and make it his
Sinclair- least likely to make it, could hang around a team as decent depth for multiple years tho. If he's in your best 22 youre in trouble

 

[mike123]

Why do you think Fasolo will struggle to make it? If we play him forward and his attitude matures I still think he could be very valuable provided he can stay injury free. A lot of ifs but that's the nature of such speculation. Agree on the others, really hope the Seed can string some games together. What he added when he first came in last year was the only time I've felt the team showed glimpses of the gameplan Buckley envisions.

Because as a forward I see Fasolo as a poor mans Elliott. With Elliott as the classy strong marking small forward I don't think we need one that is slower and puts on less defensive pressure.

Doesn't mean I'm ruling him out completely and I also still not ruling him out as a defender either.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Because as a forward I see Fasolo as a poor mans Elliott. With Elliott as the classy strong marking small forward I don't think we need one that is slower and puts on less defensive pressure.

Doesn't mean I'm ruling him out completely and I also still not ruling him out as a defender either.

Personally I think Ellioit is earmarked for a midfield role in the Chappy mould... a fourth or fifth string midfeilder who spends lots of time near goals. That may open up the position forward for Fasolo if hes good enough

 

[jackcass]

Lets face it none of these guys will be super stars. The best hope is Adams clearly. Fasolo possesses the most talent but there is something missing with him.
Injuries have plagued all of Thomas Fasolo Sinclair and Seedsman and to a lesser extent Adams and Williams who has battled his off field issues.
I don't hold hope for Seedsman inpartically 2015 after the hip issue.
Adams should be ok if he knuckles down, works on his kicking and stays injury free.
Sinclair i can see gettting delisted.
Fasolo needs 15-22 to games stay on the list.
Thomas Im unsure. Is he good enough.. He needs to produce every week in 2015 instead of the odd game.
Williams another Im unsure of. Hes a battler but not sure he will be around in 5 years.
Seedsman I think unfortunately might be on his last legs. Needs the hip to allow him to play well, if not at 23?.. hes gone for me.

Can't recall too many teams that trotted out 22 superstars. At most teams are likely to have 5-10 with the rest of the team made up of good ordinary footballers. It's the quality and depth of your good ordinary footballers that make the major difference.