Essendon's Penalty

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mxett said:
No, my argument is the penalties from the AFL, plus the massive fallout from ASADA's bans for players may be enough to put the club right on the edge and make them suffere for decades. Why hit them a third time and cause their demise, unless that's what people really want
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It depends on what is revealed IMO.
If they used TB4 and people at the club knew they did, then i think they will get hit again.
If those people knew and let this mess fester to where it is now, then the AFL need to say this is not how it's done people, this is what is going to happen to anyone who thinks they can do this.
 
mxett said:
you think essendon dissolving is fair?
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Essendon won't dissolve. You have substantial financial backing through your supporter base and the AFL will ensure you don't fail.

A loss of multiple years of draft picks will mean your club will start from scratch on and off field once players complete bans but it won't mean the end of the club. It will mean some mighty lean times but it also provides a clean slate.

Look at Carlton, they have had a similar penalty and are still competing.
 

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If players are found guilty, I would like to see player suspensions for this season. Further to that I would expect that EFC would not be able to participate in the draft for the new draftees in 2015 but be allowed to participate for uncontracted players and trade for players. You cannot totally exclude them from any trading or drafts at the end of the season. I expect there will be issues with many players wanting to either leave EFC, be traded or retire. This will be difficult given they will have a record of drug use on their resume and may not have much market value or possibly getting overlooked by all clubs. EFC should have some chance to gain new players to replenish lost players.

The AFL & players association should demand that EFC take swift action to clear any staff that were involved in the program and start fresh. There are plenty of good potential coaches, administrators. etc around.

I don't think fines should be given to EFC as they have already copped it harshly for their PEDS program. However, I can only imagine the legal fight that will ensue from players seeking compensation from EFC and possibly AFL for lost income (current & future potential income), possibly medical side effects, etc. This could bring them to their knees. I would not like to see any team fold in the game. This would be a disaster for the game.

EFC fans will have to wade through a couple of seasons where there may bot be much success. They can't be blamed for being passionate to their club. However I am disappointed that they have not being more vocal in the last couple of years to help protect their club's name and reputation and not the staff. They should have rallied and demanded that they will not accept this type of administrative behaviour to continue. They should have demanded that board and football department be liquidated and replaced. If the club didn't listen, vote with your wallet and not renew until they do. Their coach was responsible for the program (illegal or not) that caused so many issues since. He is still there as coach. I still can't believe this.
 
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Wolfmother2 said:
Let's go on the assumption that the 34 players are found guilty of taking a PED and not concern ourselves with their penalty for the moment.

If the 34 are found guilty it will be proof that essendon ran a PED program period and although some will argue they are set up most will not believe that.

As essendon have only be penalised for governance issues should their be another round of penalties now a drug program has been proven?

This is not focused at individuals like hird but the club in general.

What do people believe would be appropriate penalties??

I would like to see them suspended from the competition for the same amount of time as the players ie 12 months or 2 years (we are working on the assumption they at being suspended). Although this not going to happen as the AFL is a business not a sporting body, the afl could hand back some cash from the future fund to make this happen.

What are the alternatives:
1.nothing they have suffered enough
2. Massive fine
3. Lose of draft picks
4. Removal of prime games like Anzac Day
5. Play for no points whilst players suspended
6. Have a mini afl take over with them appointing the board members and the CEO to confirm governance is correct before handing it back (a little like Melbourne at the moment)

Whilst I see penalties above that would fit the level of offending, I don't see ones that the AFL would be prepared to issue as they are worried about there back pockets or ones that essendon would accept without a fight.

Although essendon acceptable of the penalty should be the last concern for the afl when considering if they should be penalised for their actions
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They're all governance penalties, which the AFL gave out back in 2013. That's done and dusted. All the Anti-Doping Tribunal will do is suspend them if they are guilty, probably for the 2015 season.
 
moistie said:
Essendon won't dissolve. You have substantial financial backing through your supporter base and the AFL will ensure you don't fail.

A loss of multiple years of draft picks will mean your club will start from scratch on and off field once players complete bans but it won't mean the end of the club. It will mean some mighty lean times but it also provides a clean slate.

Look at Carlton, they have had a similar penalty and are still competing.
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Carltons players didnt sue their club. Carlton were also punisjed only once
 
In my opinion, the club has been punished for the governance issues, and the further penalties at a club level should be:
- 18th for draft purposes in 2015
- All suspended players are unrestricted free agents at the end of the season (so that they may move to another club if they are unhappy - spreading them accross the league may also benefit Essendon because they will have fewer players with tarnished reputations)
- Support staff involved removed from the club (Hird, Reid, Directors etc)
- No further fines to the club - but all sponser agreements can be voided by the sponsors should they wish to walk away (not fair to hold them to a long term contract if they were unaware of these circumstances at time of signing)
 
mxett said:
Carltons players didnt sue their club. Carlton were also punisjed only once
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Do you think its fair that Carlton received harsher penalties even though we eventually (!) co-operated fully with the AFL investigation for administrative misappropriation than Essendon who flouted international anti-doping laws, refused to co-operate under any circumstance, and then took the investigators to the highest court in the land to have the whole thing thrown out?

Some perspective please. Punishment has to fit the crime and has to be reflective of how co-operative the accused have been throughout the investigation (similar to a "tell us where the bodies are buried and we wont seek the death penalty" agreement). Your club will be fine financially, s**t, you've still got those war bonds from the 40s if my memory serves.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
anyone who buys the "governance" line is just a fool. An utter fool.

The AFL have already punished Essendon. Regardless of the outcome of the tribunal they won't be doing so again.

This thread is funny. This board is funny. Same old same old, over and over again.
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Maybe its not about what the AFL have done, maybe it's about what the AFL should do.
 

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mxett said:
No, my argument is the penalties from the AFL, plus the massive fallout from ASADA's bans for players may be enough to put the club right on the edge and make them suffere for decades. Why hit them a third time and cause their demise, unless that's what people really want
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I don't want to see the Essendon Club fold. But I do recognise that (if found guilty) this could be the worst systemic performance enhancing scheme going on in any sport in the world.

Assuming they are found guilty I would want the people that orchestrated the scheme (and whom seem to have very sense of the ethical dimensions they signed up to) to be purged from the AFL. If the players were reasonably knowingly complicit in the scheme (and I know that this is vague pursuit of information we are not privy to) then they should get lengthy bans (two years).

Having said that, I think draft bans are excessive. Keep in mind the bans will probably end many of those players careers and that there would be negative stigma around the club for years, regardless of whether the key leaders are gone.

Purgatory should be first and foremost in any penalty if found guilty.
 
I keep hearing that the initial penalties were harsh and that further penalties for the club would be a step too far as their ability to attract sponsors and members will decline further.

If the penalties were too harsh on the club then why did their sponsorship and membership revenue grow in 2014? If anything the deluded masses got further behind their club in 2014 and sponsors like captive audiences. The club have significant financial clout and more than enough money to pay for fall out from multiple drug scandals so the 'harsh' punishments so far are nothing but a lettuce leaf flogging for them.

If the purpose of punishment is to deter others from following suit I am not sure that such relatively soft treatment is going to deter the haves from pursuing similar 'treatments' under even more secrecy when the punishment passed down assists the off field bottom line.

If players are found to have used PEDs then the club should be punished in the hip pocket AND in their ability to enter the early rounds of the draft for the next few years. It is only this kind of double edged punishment that will actually deter other clubs with a s**t load of coin and a mass of blindly loyal supporters from thinking twice about ******* around with PEDs.

THe club will not fold as a consequence. They have far too much money, far too many assets and far too many supporters for that to happen. They may hurt, and hurt bad for years, but tough s**t. You dope, you get caught, you suffer the consequences.
 
mxett said:
No, my argument is the penalties from the AFL, plus the massive fallout from ASADA's bans for players may be enough to put the club right on the edge and make them suffere for decades. Why hit them a third time and cause their demise, unless that's what people really want
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The club will survive, you have a large number of very well off supporters who, along with the AFL, will make sure of that. Take your punishment, wooden spoons and rebuild from the ground up. It's up to the club to how quickly it rebuilds once its served its punishment.
 
Lance Uppercut said:
anyone who buys the "governance" line is just a fool. An utter fool.

The AFL have already punished Essendon. Regardless of the outcome of the tribunal they won't be doing so again.

This thread is funny. This board is funny. Same old same old, over and over again.
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Get off your high horse, you don't know what's going to happen any more than anyone else.
 
slashin_velvet said:
In my opinion, the club has been punished for the governance issues, and the further penalties at a club level should be:
- 18th for draft purposes in 2015
- All suspended players are unrestricted free agents at the end of the season (so that they may move to another club if they are unhappy - spreading them accross the league may also benefit Essendon because they will have fewer players with tarnished reputations)
- Support staff involved removed from the club (Hird, Reid, Directors etc)
- No further fines to the club - but all sponser agreements can be voided by the sponsors should they wish to walk away (not fair to hold them to a long term contract if they were unaware of these circumstances at time of signing)
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Sponsors are very conscious of their brand image. I think you'll find most sponsorship/endorsement contracts have bail out clauses that cover this sort of thing. We may see some withdraw their support if their are large player bans.
 
juss said:
Sponsors are very conscious of their brand image. I think you'll find most sponsorship/endorsement contracts have bail out clauses that cover this sort of thing. We may see some withdraw their support if their are large player bans.
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I would have thought as much, however I dont think many contracts would have a clause specifically relating to player suspensions (unless they are player specific endorsements). All i'm suggesting is that if the sponsers don't have a get out clause written into their original contract....that the AFL ensures they can back away if they wish to.
 
If they are found guilty of using TB4 and also trying to cover it up then I would have thought there is a chance the AFL could step in like how the NRL has just done at the Titans.
 
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