Preview R13 St Kilda v Bulldogs (Etihad)

[God Save Max King]

I don't think this analogy works. If he had have said "if you want to run better, run only at the highest level", then we might be on to something. I think your coach would be happy if they're running around at Sandy trying to play well enough to get back into the ones. And if they're getting clear messages from the coaches about what benchmarks they need to achieve to win their spot back.

Keep in mind that it's not possible for us to play a more experienced team this week and it's really not possible for us to go through the next 10 matches without losing some of our experienced players. So this week's team is just this week's team. It will, inevitably, be less experienced in coming weeks. Probably next week.

Is the concern really that we're playing so many senior players this week, or that we'll win this week b/c we're playing so many senior players and that wins take us further away from the best possible draft picks, and that therefore we should really only be winning games if our young players are good enough to do it? If so, I kind of get that. But on the other hand, I looked at those young Collingwood players last night and thought 'they're playing so well, and learning so much, because they've got so many great players around them to elevate them'. So in the end I think if the 10 youngsters playing tomorrow play in a winning team, they'll have had their progress fast tracked a little. And ultimately even those players not playing will benefit from that.

And also if we win, we'll have beaten those overrated, soft, whining tools from the West.

I'm of the belief that you might be able to develop attributes at lower levels, but the only way you significantly improve that attribute in the big league is using it in the big league. Anyway, what's done is done and we'll be a younger team soon when JB and Acres inevitably force their way back into the lineup.

As you said it's more concerning to me that our success comes from older players, rather than the fact that older players are playing. I do agree that you need experience around, but the leaders need youth to lead and right now I'm not seeing enough youth. Our success this year has been very much inflated by the continued production of older players rather than youth progression (though I don't deny that there's been improvement from young players).

Can I also say that my issue isn't with Fisher and Schneider, I think both are clearly best 22 and offer too much to the side to be missing, but there are other older players that I wouldn't be playing.

As for Collingwood, their young players are playing a bigger part than ours are at the current point in time, though that's also because their young players are slightly older.

 

[aussierulesrules]

So I popped across to look at their board and wasn't disappointed. Last team in the AFL still trying to drag Roo down. Most others gave up years ago.

They are fair-dinkum pathetic, aren't they!

 

[kelpa]

And both of those can be rubbish if they don't accurately represent the data.

For example:
Team A - 5 players with 300 games 17 debutantes. Average games 68
Team B - 5 debutantes, 5 30 gamers, 4 50 gamers, 6 100 gamers, 2 250 gamers. Average games 66.

It should be clear to anyone with half a brain that team B is 'more experienced' even though they have less average games.

'Average' is only truly meaningful as a comparison if the distributions are approximately equal.

Oh Simple Jack, what team would have 17 debutantes, poor comparison.

 

[Falchoon]

The only true measure is average games not age.

The only true measure is the score.....

 

[L_W_P]

I am also a little worried we are not putting enough games into young kids, yes they cant be gifted games, but Im very worried that in the next year and a bit we will have Demps, SFish, Roo, Joey, Schneds all gone and we will be pl;aying kids with less than 20 games in their positions eg Goddard, Paddy, Acres, Sincs, McKenzie etc. Im most worried about our Back 6!

Our back 6 is where I feel safest!

If the reports on Lee and Goddard are correct then we should see a smooth transition from Fish/Dempster to Goddard/Lee. Yes there will be teething issues but those two are forming some sort of bond/relationship in the VFL. They are learning each others game, patterns, movements, actions etc... The long term plan being (hopefully) they bring that tandem to AFL level.

Acres time will come. He had alot of injuries early and his development will be more of a long term thing. We have been spoiled with the explosion of Dunstan, Lonie and Sinc claiming best 22 spots. Acres, Eli, DMac etc will take longer.

As I've said a few times - My biggest concern in the form/depth of White, Curren, Simpkin, Wright, Saunders and Minch and the list position of injured guys like Siposs, Markworth and Murdoch. These guys look like they have all been overtaken our draftees from the last 2 years and outside of Murdoch and Wright I wouldn't be shocked if they aren't on the list in 2 years time. I still hold out hope for all of them but time waits for no man and evolution is passing them by.

 

[L_W_P]

BTW I honestly think the only real change I would make in a "youth v experience" debate for the team tonight would be Gilbert out and one of Acres/DMac in. That said if Gilbert can somehow regain form he is a very good player and will help that transition from Fisher/Dempster to Goddard/Lee.

I don't think it's really a widespread issue for the team.

 

[Fehring]

BTW I honestly think the only real change I would make in a "youth v experience" debate for the team tonight would be Gilbert out and one of Acres/DMac in. That said if Gilbert can somehow regain form he is a very good player and will help that transition from Fisher/Dempster to Goddard/Lee.

I don't think it's really a widespread issue for the team.

I would not drop Gilbert in a screaming fit, personally. He is so far above the level of most of our youngsters. Reads the play beautifully and is great above his head.

 

[joop]

I would not drop Gilbert in a screaming fit, personally. He is so far above the level of most of our youngsters. Reads the play beautifully and is great above his head.

Agree. Only going to get better once he runs the cobwebs out too.

 

[Grav]

Love the side playing at Sandringham, a lot of our future stars are playing there tomorrow, what a great looking side. As for the team playing the Doggies tonight, another great looking side, whith the experience IMO we will more than give the Dogs a run for their money, if we can keep them all on the park throughout the game, reckon we will prevail by about 3 or 4 goals. Looking forward to this game.

 

[SK_MD_#7]

@AFL_PKeane: AFL wishes to advise Sam Fisher has withdrawn from St Kilda team v WBulldogs tonight. Luke Delaney comes into team from outside emergencies.

 

[Barrels]

Dammit, Stanley-d again!

 

[Saintt]

Im still pretty pissed that Acres has been dropped from the team.
He was good when he came on as Sub, even having a hand in the Joey goal to win the game.
I think tonight would of been a good opportunity to give him a full game and tell him to play on Bonts every time he was in the middle and let Acres play up forward when Bonts is. Like Acres did at end of Melbourne game.
He is one we need to get games into if he is fit as I think he could be the draft steal of that year

But 200 gamers are better than a teenager who's played less than 10 games so he doesn't deserve to play. We'll have to wait until they retire before we play him.

 

[hayes]

@AFL_PKeane: AFL wishes to advise Sam Fisher has withdrawn from St Kilda team v WBulldogs tonight. Luke Delaney comes into team from outside emergencies.

We'll get a fine for that won't we?

 

[TheLastEmperor]

We'll get a fine for that won't we?

yup

 

[SK_MD_#7]

We'll get a fine for that won't we?

Don't think so but I might be wrong.

If we did it final teams 90 minutes before the bounce then would have, I think

 

[Defacto]

fisher out

 

[Defacto]

bloody hell how quick is manimal dunstan

 

[AuntieBarrels]

yup

Wait I don't understand why we get a fine for that

 

[Kildonan]

Saints risk $20k fine as Delaney replaces Fisher

Ben Guthrie June 27, 2015 1:13 PM

ST KILDA could be fined up to $20,000 for bringing in Luke Delaney for Saturday night's clash against the Western Bulldogs after defender Sam Fisher's withdrawal.

On Saturday, Fisher was withdrawn from the side, with fellow key defender Delaney, who was not named as an emergency, named as his replacement. The Saints could be fined up to $20,000 for bringing in a player from outside their emergency-listed players on match day. Had St Kilda informed the AFL, the Bulldogs and media of the team change on Friday, then it would not be facing a sanction. Blake Acres, Daniel McKenzie and Cameron Shenton were listed as emergencies when the teams were named on Thursday night. The swap of Delaney for Fisher would be considered a like for like replacement considering they play in similar positions. St Kilda tweeted that Fisher was withdrawn due to back soreness.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Wait I don't understand why we get a fine for that

Delaney was brought into the team from outside our emergencies. Patrick Keane said on Twitter we may receive a fine.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Saints risk $20k fine as Delaney replaces Fisher

Ben Guthrie June 27, 2015 1:13 PM

ST KILDA could be fined up to $20,000 for bringing in Luke Delaney for Saturday night's clash against the Western Bulldogs after defender Sam Fisher's withdrawal.

On Saturday, Fisher was withdrawn from the side, with fellow key defender Delaney, who was not named as an emergency, named as his replacement. The Saints could be fined up to $20,000 for bringing in a player from outside their emergency-listed players on match day. Had St Kilda informed the AFL, the Bulldogs and media of the team change on Friday, then it would not be facing a sanction. Blake Acres, Daniel McKenzie and Cameron Shenton were listed as emergencies when the teams were named on Thursday night. The swap of Delaney for Fisher would be considered a like for like replacement considering they play in similar positions. St Kilda tweeted that Fisher was withdrawn due to back soreness.

Very poor from the club having those three players as emergencies, who could play similar roles.

 

[SK_MD_#7]

So I was wrong.

That sucks

 

[Fruity Boots]

Anyone else a nervous Nellie 4 this one?

 

[Kildonan]

Very poor from the club having those three players as emergencies, who could play similar roles.

I have to agree. It doesn't take much foresight to cover each line, especially when considering the returning injured players might have a question mark on them

 

[Plugger35]

Well that sucks with Fisher out, he could have been a real weapon for us rebounding off the likes of Boyd, Delaney isn't a bad replacement defensively but doesn't offer as much offensively as Fisher.

Thought it might have been a good chance to bring Goddard in as Fisher's replacement with us playing a young side in the Dogs but I guess they prefer the experience of Delaney.